Attendance issues at whatever our arena is named now

[#freejame]

Didn’t know where to put this so figured I’d start a thread.

I’ve seen some grumblings about attendance last night and earlier this season, and obviously it’s been an issue over the last decade as well. I think something that’s often forgotten (ignored?) is that Sabres attendance early 2000s was also in the absolute gutter (multiple factors besides a bad team). Even in the beginning of the best season in Sabres history, fans weren’t showing up for games. This is a fan base that’s been out through the ringer for years. I think it’s going to take a playoff pace to fill out the arena by maybe January. The Bills being good also certainly doesn’t help. But this isn’t anything new for Buffalo. 

[Derrico]

I’ve done my part.

When they start winning again on a regular basis this won’t be a problem. 

[sabremike]

The single biggest factor in STH value is playoff access. The team has all but put up giant advertisements saying "We have zero intention of making the playoff this season and probably the next". Shouldn't be surprising that Sabres season tickets are selling like cans of herpes (the embarrassingly crappy "benefits" are the icing on the crap cake).

[#freejame]

15 minutes ago, sabremike said:

The single biggest factor in STH value is playoff access. The team has all but put up giant advertisements saying "We have zero intention of making the playoff this season and probably the next". Shouldn't be surprising that Sabres season tickets are selling like cans of herpes (the embarrassingly crappy "benefits" are the icing on the crap cake).

The benefits are something that I think should be honed in on in particular. Growing up my dad was a STH and that got me the opportunity to do everything from get autographs from all my favorite players to meeting Hasek to playing bubble hockey with Miro Satan. I got to meet Stu Barnes and hear about how the team called Jay McKee the Cheese Man and get an autograph for my dads best friend saying from one cheese man to another. It’s just not there like that anymore. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by #freejame
Furthermore when my dad hit twenty years as a STH the organization sent him zero recognition for the milestone. Just a small thing but deserves to be stated.

[The Big Lebowski]

Attendance now isn't anywhere near as bad as it was in the 2002-03 season. I went to the Ducks game with a friend on December 4, 2002. The lower bowl was so empty they had ushers at the top of the steps checking tickets to make sure you weren't trying to get a better seat than the one you paid for. Our seats were in the 300's but we managed to finagle our way to to one of the many empty spots against the glass. It was one of the few good games that year. The Sabres got their 5th win of the season with a 3-0 shutout.

[Indabuff]

The team has sucked for a prolonged period and so has the environmental experience.  The attendance reflects that.    

[Pimlach]

I go back to the days of the AHL Bisons and the Aud without the oranges.  This pains me. I was at the Saturday Matinee against the Panthers expecting a big crowd and lots of young fans. The crowd was sparse.  

I only saw the last 4 minutes last night   It looked and sounded like we were the visitors   

Adams wants to bring the fans back I am sure of that.  His sense of urgency may not  be as high as I would like it to be.  There is no doubt that WNY has an entire generation of young fans that live the Bills and do not know the Sabres.  

Edited October 29, 2022 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

The single biggest factor in STH value is playoff access. The team has all but put up giant advertisements saying "We have zero intention of making the playoff this season and probably the next". Shouldn't be surprising that Sabres season tickets are selling like cans of herpes (the embarrassingly crappy "benefits" are the icing on the crap cake).

Lol.

20 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

The team has sucked for a prolonged period and so has the environmental experience.  The attendance reflects that.    

True

[PASabreFan]

You mean the idiot savant was wrong AGAIN?

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, Derrico said:

I’ve done my part.

When they start winning again on a regular basis this won’t be a problem. 

They've been winning the last three months ofregular season play.

Part of the problem are the Bills. Sabres have always lagged in attendance while football is still on. If attendance still sucks in February with the Sabres in the hunt for the playoffs then this market isn't an NHL market anymore.

Edited October 29, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[K-9]

40 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You mean the idiot savant was wrong AGAIN?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

8 hours ago, Indabuff said:

The team has sucked for a prolonged period and so has the environmental experience.  The attendance reflects that.    

 

[sweetlou]

Should fans tonight start a "We want Kane" chant... He does have Chicago ties with Granato.

Understand I don't want to trade for him, but next off season as a UFA is a total different story!!

[Derrico]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

They've been winning the last three months or regular season play.

Part of the problem are the Bills. Sabres have always lagged in attendance while football is still on. If attendance still sucks in February with the Sabres in the hunt for the playoffs then this market isn't an NHL market anymore.

Agree on bills but me thinks it will take more than 3 months (of which almost all of it came when they were already eliminated last year). We have suffered for 11 years straight!!

[Buffalonill]

When they start winning and making the playoffs people will come .

Pretty easy recipe 

 

[Zamboni]

26 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

Should fans tonight start a "We want Kane" chant... He does have Chicago ties with Granato.

Understand I don't want to trade for him, but next off season as a UFA is a total different story!!

No

[nucci]

miss playoffs for 11 straights years...during those years some of the worst seasons in Sabres and NHL history...fans aren't going to start buying tickets at first positive steps

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

miss playoffs for 11 straights years...during those years some of the worst seasons in Sabres and NHL history...fans aren't going to start buying tickets at first positive steps

Especially not when they've been burned multiple times during that timeframe.

[mjd1001]

Winning consistently is the easiest way, I agree with that. But....

I think some of this has to be on the Arena, and the experience there.

I'll try to pre-empt some responses by saying I know the game is the biggest thing, among hard core hockey fans is likely the only thing, and year sand years ago the experience at buildings like the Aud or boston garden or MLG was a lot worse and less comfortable than it is at the current arena, I get that but....

The Arena and the experience there matters today.  You don't get 20,000 hard core hockey fans at games that only care about the games anymore.  A winning product helps, sure. But today, people want nice things to look at, they want to go to new buildings, they want to see different things in their environment.  Like it or not, new arenas typically get sold out for years regardless of how the team is.  One of those new, fancy movie theaters opens up where they serve you food at your seat and give you blankets and pillows and they are popular for a while regardless of the movies.  Not only does Buffalo not have a 'new' arena, but they don't seem to care about the game-day experience and the arena is in pretty bad shape.

I have been to a bunch of arenas over the past 6-8 years (whether for a hockey game, and event or whatever reason) and even among the ones built the at the same time as the Key Bank Center, the KBC is a lot behind them. Chicago, Toronto, Boston, Philly, Montreal, Nashville....all were built about the same time (or are older), most have already undergone MAJOR renovations....and I have been to most of them (or at least walked by all of them) and they all blow away the key bank center.  Forget about bringing up the brand new places like in Detroit, they are so nice you can go there just for the arena and have a good time walkign around regardless of the game.

So I get it.  The team needs to be better for long.  If this team becomes a 100 point team and makes playoff runs, I think the Key Bank Center will be sold or (or very close to it) for most games.  That is the easiest way to fix attendance.   But if anyone hasn't been out of town to one of the new arenas around the league, or even to a game at one of the older ones that has been renovated, try it a couple times. There is a huge, massive gap in the gameday experience compared to what you get in Buffalo.

Edited October 29, 2022 by mjd1001

[Eleven]

13 hours ago, sabremike said:

The single biggest factor in STH value is playoff access. The team has all but put up giant advertisements saying "We have zero intention of making the playoff this season and probably the next". Shouldn't be surprising that Sabres season tickets are selling like cans of herpes (the embarrassingly crappy "benefits" are the icing on the crap cake).

 

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol.

True

Sabremike isn't wrong.  Having access to playoff tickets really is a HUGE draw for STHs.  And this team has been very clear--as were the Bills for a few years--that this is not their moment.

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I think some of this has to be on the Arena, and the experience there.

The arena sucks, but building a new one isn't the answer.  Making it less generic would really help.  Turn down the same crappy music that every arena plays, make it a Buffalo experience, don't worry so much about making a 3x profit on the food and focus on serving good stuff, and we're there.  These are easy fixes.

[PASabreFan]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

They've been winning the last three months or regular season play.

Part of the problem are the Bills. Sabres have always lagged in attendance while football is still on. If attendance still sucks in February with the Sabres in the hunt for the playoffs then this market isn't an NHL market anymore.

Putin's looking for a PR man.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

Sabremike isn't wrong.  Having access to playoff tickets really is a HUGE draw for STHs.  And this team has been very clear--as were the Bills for a few years--that this is not their moment.

The arena sucks, but building a new one isn't the answer.  Making it less generic would really help.  Turn down the same crappy music that every arena plays, make it a Buffalo experience, don't worry so much about making a 3x profit on the food and focus on serving good stuff, and we're there.  These are easy fixes.

Aren't long playoff droughts the ultimate Buffalo experience?

48 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Putin's looking for a PR man.

He's got an entire news network behind him. He doesn't need me.

Edited October 29, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

Sabremike isn't wrong.  Having access to playoff tickets really is a HUGE draw for STHs.  And this team has been very clear--as were the Bills for a few years--that this is not their moment.

The arena sucks, but building a new one isn't the answer.  Making it less generic would really help.  Turn down the same crappy music that every arena plays, make it a Buffalo experience, don't worry so much about making a 3x profit on the food and focus on serving good stuff, and we're there.  These are easy fixes.

Is the food that bad and costly? How much is a beer? Is it watered-downed light beer? Does Sports Service still have the concession contract? As you smartly point out there are deficiencies about the arena that you can't quickly fix. Quality service is something that you can quickly upgrade if you have the desire to! Even if there is a dearth of paying customers that doesn't mean that you can't properly service the ones who do show up. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I agree with everyone that has said when they start winning and then winning in the playoff they will come.

The Sabres really need to make the game day experience at the Aud (or whatever it's called) much better.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

Sabremike isn't wrong.  Having access to playoff tickets really is a HUGE draw for STHs.  And this team has been very clear--as were the Bills for a few years--that this is not their moment.

The arena sucks, but building a new one isn't the answer.  Making it less generic would really help.  Turn down the same crappy music that every arena plays, make it a Buffalo experience, don't worry so much about making a 3x profit on the food and focus on serving good stuff, and we're there.  These are easy fixes.

The arena does suck and it makes a difference. The whole area sucks and that adds to the problem. The area lacks any character at all. There are a large contingent of people, like me, who will go to a game because it's a hockey game. There are far more people who are looking for an experience.  What's the experience around the arena or in it?

Hockey is entertainment but the arena isn't in an entertainment district. It's in an corporate/industrial area. There are things like the casino that have been built up but they are multiple blocks away, which is a hell of walk in the Buffalo winter. So people aren't going to get enough "extra" experience for the investment of going to the game. It's easy enough to avoid paying for food/beverages in the arena, but that usually means you're looking for somewhere to go before or after the game.

As for the in-arena experience. You talk about the crappy music that every arena plays, does that include the ones that have fans butts in seats? It seems those aren't being hampered by the music.  Everything about the in-game experience for the Sabres is absolute trash.  You have to really love hockey to be there because there's absolutely nothing else to add value to the cost of your ticket.  I used to be more forgiving but I went to the Sabres game in Nashville last year and it completely reset my expectations of what a hockey experience should be.

Also, the team has sucked, and that has had a lot to do with things. Football has an impact to be certain, but the economy being crap and people having to choose where to spend their money also has an impact. The cost of the ticket keeps rising, they charge what, $15 for the Southern Tier 2X IPA, 19.2oz can?  The same that I can pull off the shelves at Wegmans for $3?  Granted, if you had lower beer costs you'd have even more drunken fan problems but that price gouging has to go.

Since the area, the arena, the in-game experience, and the cost are all not contributing to drawing fans in the only thing left is the team. A team that has been absolute trash for too long and has a long way to go to drawing a capacity crowd on a routine basis.