The "Whoops I posted Politics in the Main Forum" Thread

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

Lincoln wanted to select the radical abolitionist (and, yes, I mean radical) Cassius Marcellus Clay, but he was told he couldn't select someone who would duel every sitting member of the opposition party if he had the chance (Clay--at this point--has already been in 40 or so duels with pro-slavery folks).

Instead, Lincoln selected the rather forgettable Hannibal Hamlin and made Clay the ambassador to Russia. While ambassador to Russia, he convinced the Russian government to tell both Britain and France that if either recognized the Confederacy as an independent country, Russia would declare war on them. That's why, despite France and Britain certainly having a beneficial interest in recognizing and supporting the confederacy, they remained largely sidelined. Russia even sent ships to NY harbor with sealed orders on how to proceed if either Britain or France got involved.

Then, in early 1862, Lincoln was desperate for competent military officers, so he recalled Clay to the US and tried to promote him to Major General. Clay, being a true abolitionist, told Lincoln publicly he wouldn't accept the promotion unless Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation--which Lincoln signed a few months later.

Mid-1863 he returned to Russia to father an illegitimate child continue his work as ambassador. He is the reason we have Alaska today. He was the person who negotiated the Alaska purchase.

Underrated dude who was almost VP. By keeping Britain and France out of the war, he basically saved the Union which was pretty close to losing prior to July of 1863. Then he got Lincoln to free the slaves. And, because that wasn't enough, he decided to buy Alaska.

Also he was completely mental.

Great post.

Sidenote, I would contest that the US was close to the losing in July of 1863. Even if the Army of the Potomac was destroyed in part  at Gettysburg or there abouts, the Confederacy would still have been cut in half on July 4th with the ending of the Siege of Vicksburg and the Army of Cumberland was still driving towards Atlanta. However, since I don't want to come across as nitpicking, I want to add that I fully agree the 3 days in July were the most perilous for the US. One can easily envision a shattered Army of the Potomac limping back to Washington DC with the confederates hot on their trails. 

[K-9]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

That's how every vp candidate has been picked for years. 

McCain, picked a white women

Obama, white dude

Trump, actual Christian 

Hillary, white guy

They all pick a vp that represents a voting block they want to appeal too. 

You forgot McCain picking Palin which was a shrewd move made to appeal to the idiot block. 

[Doohickie]

I didn't share this tweet in the main forum, but I thought about it:

 

[SABRES 0311]

Every time I see this thread title, I think of Britney Spears singing whoops I did it again.

[PerreaultForever]

For all the Geezers (myself included) here's a little hard truth to ruin your day.

 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

For all the Geezers (myself included) here's a little hard truth to ruin your day.

 

Some of what he says is true, and some of it is complete BS.  Although his criticism on higher education is refreshing to hear, as are his comments on national debt.  

If only everyone could work at elite universities, look back 20 to 40+ years, and then tell people what should have been done.  

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Some of what he says is true, and some of it is complete BS.  Although his criticism on higher education is refreshing to hear, as are his comments on national debt.  

If only everyone could work at elite universities, look back 20 to 40+ years, and then tell people what should have been done.  

Which part was complete BS? Or do you just want it to be BS?

As far as academics go, they do the research. It's their job to analyze and critique. We are supposed to learn from the work they do rather than just dismissing them as academics who we don't want to listen to. He has the data to back up the claims. 

If only our politicians (and the media) would actually present facts and figures to us instead of lies and rhetoric. Imagine that? Society might actually evolve. 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Which part was complete BS? Or do you just want it to be BS?

As far as academics go, they do the research. It's their job to analyze and critique. We are supposed to learn from the work they do rather than just dismissing them as academics who we don't want to listen to. He has the data to back up the claims. 

If only our politicians (and the media) would actually present facts and figures to us instead of lies and rhetoric. Imagine that? Society might actually evolve. 

I am well aware of the role of Academics in this country.  I don't blindly dismiss them and I don't look at them as hero's either. 

I thought the Ted Talk was good.  He made some interesting points and a few that made me cringe.   Lets just say I do not  agree with every interpretation of the data that he makes in his 19 minute segment were he spends maybe 2 minutes on each topic.  Some things are far more complex than the limited set of data he shows could explain.     

Politicians in the US today continue to disappoint me.  Far too often you see that gaining wealth and power come before service to the people, and too many are willing to blindly support their party, and the special interests that fund them, to achieve their personal goals. 

National politics is a sport for the wealthiest, not the smartest. 

 

Edited May 7 by Pimlach

[RangerDave]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Politicians in the US today continue to disappoint me.  Far too often you see that gaining wealth and power come before service to the people, and too many are willing to blindly support their party, and the special interests that fund them, to achieve their personal goals. 

I agree that politicians are awful, and getting awfuler.  It used to be they strived to do what was best for the country, then (as George Washington predicted), they did what was best for their party.  Now, it's down to doing what hurts the other party the most.  This applies to politicians of all parties equally.  And the lemmings and the rich continue their march together...

[Weave]

22 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

I agree that politicians are awful, and getting awfuler.  It used to be they strived to do what was best for the country, then (as George Washington predicted), they did what was best for their party.  Now, it's down to doing what hurts the other party the most.  This applies to politicians of all parties equally.  And the lemmings and the rich continue their march together...

You lost me at the bolded.  That used to be true, but hasn’t been for a good decade, if not more.  One side is demonstrably more active in that context than the other.

[RangerDave]

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

You lost me at the bolded.  That used to be true, but hasn’t been for a good decade, if not more.  One side is demonstrably more active in that context than the other.

I agree.  You are right, it does not apply to all parties equally as I stated.  I was trying not to choose sides in a political battle.  It does apply to many people in all parties, but at this point in our history, it is clearly dominated by one side.  Thanks for correcting my hesitation.  This may sound sarcastic, but, trust me, it is sincere.

[PerreaultForever]

29 minutes ago, Weave said:

You lost me at the bolded.  That used to be true, but hasn’t been for a good decade, if not more.  One side is demonstrably more active in that context than the other.

The other side might shift if they keep losing though. The goal posts of what is "normal" or "acceptable" or even where the center is and what is "right" of that or "left" of that keep getting shifted. 

Remember when the left thought Dick Cheney was the ultimate evil? Now he's a moderate. 

It's shifted into other countries now too whether we like it or not. Our new opposition conservative guy is stealing all his playbook pages from Trump and the republicans. Decorum in parliament is going right down the dumper. 

probably getting too political here, but then again we are geezers, and geezers like to gripe. 

[PASabreFan]

Free Scottie? Wow those law and order Republicans sure love their criminals.

Edited May 20 by PASabreFan