dudacek Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Thorny said: The 2018-19 season, eons ago, when Sobotka was the worst player in the NHL. His arguments were mostly grounded in how the season unfolded last year. His argument to me (and I admittedly shut it off) boiled down to “I refuse to feel any hope for this organization until they win.” We got that billionaire free-spending owner and we stayed bad We spent big bucks on Ehrhoff and Leino and we stayed bad We tanked for all those picks and we stayed bad. We drafted Eichel and we stayed bad. We made big trades for O’Reilly and Kane and Lehner and we stayed bad We signed Moulson and Okposo and we stayed bad We hired Bylsma and Housley and we stayed bad We fired our GM and we stayed bad We won the fricking lottery and we stayed bad Why the hell should I believe that a slow-talking patient GM who traded the Stanley Cup MVP for squat, concentrates on low-key moves and preaches “culture” and “development” while refusing to boot our scapegoats into the sun might be on the right path? Schopp being angry about the continued presence of 4th liners like Girgensons and Larsson, or legitimately useful hockey players like Ristolainen ignores the additions of good hockey players like Montour and Miller and Johansson and really good players like Skinner and Dahlin. Sobotka is a bad hockey player, but he isn’t going to make or break the 2019/20 Buffalo Sabres. He’s only a big deal in the context of the fanbase needing a sacrificial lamb to pay for all the hollow promises that came before. If we’ve learned anything from the past decade, it’s that we should judge the team by how they play on the ice, not by the “impressive” moves they make in the off-season. Edited October 2, 2019 by dudacek 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, darksabre said: Yeah, I had to turn them off this afternoon. Just incredible levels of wailing. 2 hours ago, dudacek said: I’m with @darksabre on this one. I tuned him out too. He certainly captures what many are feeling, but it’s a point of view jaundiced far too much by the past. I have no interest in wallowing in it. Keep moving forward. Me too. He was beyond annoying. Doubt I’ll listen for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, dudacek said: His argument to me (and I admittedly shut it off) boiled down to “I refuse to feel any hope for this organization until they win.” We got that billionaire free-spending owner and we stayed bad We spent big bucks on Eichel and Leino and we stayed bad We tanked for all those picks and we stayed bad. We drafted Eichel and we stayed bad. We made big trades for O’Reilly and Kane and Lehner and we stayed bad We signed Moulson and Okposo and we stayed bad We hired Bylsma and Housley and we stayed bad We fired our GM and we stayed bad We won the fricking lottery and we stayed bad Why the hell should I believe that a slow-talking patient GM who traded the Stanley Cup MVP for squat, concentrates on low-key moves and preaches “culture” and “development” while refusing to boot our scapegoats into the sun might be on the right path? Schopp being angry about the continued presence of 4th liners like Girgensons and Larsson, or legitimately useful hockey players like Ristolainen ignores the additions of good hockey players like Montour and Miller and Johansson and really good players like Skinner and Dahlin. Sobotka is a bad hockey player, but he isn’t going to make or break the 2019/20 Buffalo Sabres. He’s only a big deal in the context of the fanbase needing a sacrificial lamb to pay for all the hollow promises that came before. If we’ve learned anything from the past decade, it’s that we should judge the team by how they play on the ice, not by the “impressive” moves they make in the off-season. This is becoming a bit of a recurrent straw man. Again, he’s not a symbol, to me. I don’t want him gone because of what he philosophically represents, I want him gone specifically, and only because he could be the worst player in a professional league bursting at the seams with talented players trying to find their way in. I may talk about it a lot, but you are at the front of making it a bigger deal than it has to be. It’s *ok* to demand better than the worst player in the league skating on your 2nd line and not have it necessarily be the Face of some deep unrest you are projecting into the argument across an entire fan base. Smart teams improve their roster all the time. The players they jettison aren’t “scapegoats”. You are supposed to identify the weakest elements of your roster and attempt to improve and replace them. It’s basic player evaluation, it’s not scapegoating. Eichel is a scapegoat, when people make the argument he’s held the team back, through a lack of leadership, for example. - - - If we are supposed to be judging the team by how they perform on the ice, why is Sobotka starting, and Rodrigues sitting, after their performances across an entire season last year? I know, another clean slate. Edited October 2, 2019 by Thorny 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, shrader said: @Taro T, I see Pilut and Jokiharju with the same exact cap hit. So why the need for the swap of those two? Is there some signing bonus somewhere that I’m not seeing or does the one extra year on Jokiharju’s deal factor in somehow? Pretty sure they want Pilut in Ra-cha-cha to start out because he hasn't had any action at all since last spring. Not sure why they recalled Dea along with the other 2 unless to show him that he's in the mix for a real call up should somebody flail. And they need to have the roster cap compliant tomorrow (again apologies, thought 10/1 was the 1st day of the league year) so they need to send more than Hunwick's cap hit back to Ra-cha-cha now that they are over the cap by more than his contract. (They only had to lose ~$1.6MM to be compliant prior to yesterday's moves.). But they can't send Olofsson & Jokiharju to Ra-cha-cha on the same day they recall them without having their salaries count against the cap. So, they can't LTIR Hunwick with both of them being in town the full day. They'll send the other guys down, designate Matt, and then bring the other 2 kids back up. 4 hours ago, triumph_communes said: I thought Pilut was on IR and couldn’t go down until cleared? Worded it wrong. Their contracts bring us right up to the cap, which lets us exceed the near entirety of Hubwicks LTIR relief. Had he not been medically cleared, he couldn't have been sent down. He WAS sent down, so he must have been cleared. And again, they need to send all 3 down to have the space to have Hunwick's salary fit under the cap. (UPL's status might be a wild card to adjust that slightly ). Which was the same situation when Vic & Joker were up; those 2 had to go down. 4 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said: So will Lazar need to clear waivers again when he goes back down, or is he free to just send back down since he already cleared before? He needs to be up for IIRC 30 days or 10 games to reclear, but either way he can go back down tomorrow and likely will. 4 hours ago, Doohickie said: I think once a player clears waivers, he doesn't have to clear again for 30 days. Want to say there's also an active game restriction too, but it's late & running on empty. It might just be the 30 days cumulative w/ the big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Thorny said: This is becoming a bit of a recurrent straw man. Again, he’s not a symbol, to me. I don’t want him gone because of what he philosophically represents, I want him gone specifically, and only because he could be the worst player in a professional league bursting at the seams with talented players trying to find their way in. I may talk about it a lot, but you are at the front of making it a bigger deal than it has to be. It’s *ok* to demand better than the worst player in the league skating on your 2nd line and not have it necessarily be the Face of some deep unrest you are projecting into the argument across an entire fan base. Smart teams improve their roster all the time. The players they jettison aren’t “scapegoats”. You are supposed to identify the weakest elements of your roster and attempt to improve and replace them. It’s basic player evaluation, it’s not scapegoating. Eichel is a scapegoat, when people make the argument he’s held the team back, through a lack of leadership, for example. - - - If we are supposed to be judging the team by how they perform on the ice, why is Sobotka starting, and Rodrigues sitting, after their performances across an entire season last year? I know, another clean slate. All of this. I want him gone because Sobotka is a bad hockey player. It is that simple. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Taro T said: Pretty sure they want Pilut in Ra-cha-cha to start out because he hasn't had any action at all since last spring. Not sure why they recalled Dea along with the other 2 unless to show him that he's in the mix for a real call up should somebody flail. And they need to have the roster cap compliant tomorrow (again apologies, thought 10/1 was the 1st day of the league year) so they need to send more than Hunwick's cap hit back to Ra-cha-cha now that they are over the cap by more than his contract. (They only had to lose ~$1.6MM to be compliant prior to yesterday's moves.). But they can't send Olofsson & Jokiharju to Ra-cha-cha on the same day they recall them without having their salaries count against the cap. So, they can't LTIR Hunwick with both of them being in town the full day. They'll send the other guys down, designate Matt, and then bring the other 2 kids back up. Pilut in Rochester makes perfect sense, especially due to the injury. But what I don't understand about it is if both he and Jakiharju have the same exact cap hit, how flipping the two has any impact on the cap figure. If you send down 925K and call up 925K, you still have the same cap figure. So that leads me to believe that they don't actually have the same cap hit, but it's tough to whittle these things down to the actual daily figures, particularly if there's some bonus in there that's tough to find. There is one other little game being played in these moves that may not have been noticed yet. Dea, Ellie, and Smith all have the same cap hit. So why call up Dea? He's the only one of those guys with a one way deal. So even if it's just one single day's pay, they some real money. He makes the same number either way, but calling up either of the other two would give them a bigger paycheck. Of course, that whole thought is out the window if these guys don't actually count as being on the team for one day. Again, figuring out this stuff on a day-to-day basis is a major headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Thorny said: This is becoming a bit of a recurrent straw man. Again, he’s not a symbol, to me. I don’t want him gone because of what he philosophically represents, I want him gone specifically, and only because he could be the worst player in a professional league bursting at the seams with talented players trying to find their way in. I may talk about it a lot, but you are at the front of making it a bigger deal than it has to be. It’s *ok* to demand better than the worst player in the league skating on your 2nd line and not have it necessarily be the Face of some deep unrest you are projecting into the argument across an entire fan base. Smart teams improve their roster all the time. The players they jettison aren’t “scapegoats”. You are supposed to identify the weakest elements of your roster and attempt to improve and replace them. It’s basic player evaluation, it’s not scapegoating. Eichel is a scapegoat, when people make the argument he’s held the team back, through a lack of leadership, for example. - - - If we are supposed to be judging the team by how they perform on the ice, why is Sobotka starting, and Rodrigues sitting, after their performances across an entire season last year? I know, another clean slate. 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: All of this. I want him gone because Sobotka is a bad hockey player. It is that simple. I was responding to Schopp’s rant and why I turned it off - something you brought up - not about Sobotka’s worth as a hockey player. I agree with @LGR4GM and I’ve said so. Right now, Ralph feels differently. We’ll see how it plays out. Don’t think there’s much else to say on that. If he’s not a symbol of something bigger, I don’t know why people continue to talk about it. It’s like fans in Vancouver losing their ***** because Tim Schaller made the team and Sven Baertschi got waived. So what? Edited October 2, 2019 by dudacek 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I was responding to Schopp’s rant and why I turned it off - something you brought up - not about Sobotka’s worth as a hockey player. I agree with @LGR4GM and I’ve said so. Right now, Ralph feels differently. We’ll see how it plays out. Don’t think there’s much else to say on that. It’s like fans in Vancouver losing their ***** because Tim Schaller made the team and Sven Baertschi got waived. So what? Tim Schaller is Wayne ***** Gretzky compared to Sob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 I take this as Bogo is not going on LTIR for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Brawndo said: I take this as Bogo is not going on LTIR for now Looks like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Brawndo said: I take this as Bogo is not going on LTIR for now I'm slow. How do you reach that conclusion with this information, and what are the implications- cap and otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, erickompositör72 said: I'm slow. How do you reach that conclusion with this information, and what are the implications- cap and otherwise? They probably would have announced that he was going on LTIR if he was. They must not think it's necessary at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Hamilton posted the forward lines just now. He keeps replying that the lines are going to change once the opener arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Olofsson’s and Jokers Recalls will be tomorrow probably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Evan placeholding for VO until he’s called back up. Pretty much confirms what we’ll see tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Let's be careful at practice today fellas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Hamilton posted the forward lines just now. He keeps replying that the lines are going to change once the opener arrives. Wishful thinking that he has a scoop on a trade or a waiver move, but probably not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: Hamilton posted the forward lines just now. He keeps replying that the lines are going to change once the opener arrives. Ristolainen trade incoming confirmed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 Can somebody explain why they had to send Olofsson and Jok down? I get that they had to get under the cap, but if that's the case, how will they be able to call them back up tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Can somebody explain why they had to send Olofsson and Jok down? I get that they had to get under the cap, but if that's the case, how will they be able to call them back up tomorrow? It wasn't necessarily to get under the cap, it was to get as close to the cap as possible without going over until the LTIR move for Hunwick was applied today. Now they can come back up while other guys go down and there are no cap issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, shrader said: Pilut in Rochester makes perfect sense, especially due to the injury. But what I don't understand about it is if both he and Jakiharju have the same exact cap hit, how flipping the two has any impact on the cap figure. If you send down 925K and call up 925K, you still have the same cap figure. So that leads me to believe that they don't actually have the same cap hit, but it's tough to whittle these things down to the actual daily figures, particularly if there's some bonus in there that's tough to find. There is one other little game being played in these moves that may not have been noticed yet. Dea, Ellie, and Smith all have the same cap hit. So why call up Dea? He's the only one of those guys with a one way deal. So even if it's just one single day's pay, they some real money. He makes the same number either way, but calling up either of the other two would give them a bigger paycheck. Of course, that whole thought is out the window if these guys don't actually count as being on the team for one day. Again, figuring out this stuff on a day-to-day basis is a major headache. The cap hit really was immaterial because either way, that cap hit needed to be sent down to Ra-cha-cha today to be under the cap. Once they were under the cap today (1st day of league year) they could put Hunwick on BF-LTIR. Once he was designated that way, then Olofsson and Jokiharju can be recalled today. (Not sure if that has to be after 5PM or not, believe it can be before, but not completely positive.). They aren't supposed to be able to waive a guy and then recall the same guy on the same day for this exercise because then the guy that got waived in the morning would've still counted against the cap today and the team would've been over the cap before Hunwick went to LTIR. That's why they swapped out the guys they did. Not sure why they brought 3 guys up instead of 2 yesterday. This all was basically paper transactions to comply with the letter of the CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) On 10/02/2019 at 12:03 PM, darksabre said: It wasn't necessarily to get under the cap, it was to get as close to the cap as possible without going over until the LTIR move for Hunwick was applied today. Now they can come back up while other guys go down and there are no cap issues. By the letter of the CBA those other guys were supposed to go down before Hunwick could get put on LTIR. That would explain why they weren't listed as being at practice this morning in Hammy's tweet. (The forwards weren't listed at any rate. Didn't see D pairings.) TIL, the BF-LTIR cap exception can be invoked prior to opening day. If a team does invoke it, then the team is considered to be in compliance on opening day as long as the team doesn't exceed the cap with the rest of the opening day roster and the team's effective cap becomes that AAV on opening day plus the BF-LTIR'd player's salary. Edited October 3, 2019 by Taro T Correcting an innacuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, darksabre said: Wishful thinking that he has a scoop on a trade or a waiver move, but probably not yet. That is not his style. (I'm not sure what your post means, actually.) 35 minutes ago, WildCard said: Ristolainen trade incoming confirmed I'd like to think so. But my guess is it's something far less compelling than that. Edited October 2, 2019 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 McCabe and Johannsen (sp) with the A's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 2, 2019 Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: That is not his style. (I'm not sure what your post means, actually.) I'd like to think so. But my guess is it's something far less compelling than that. I should clarify that I'm the one doing the wishful thinking and chastising myself for it for exactly the reason you put forth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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