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Oilers vs Sabres - who has the brighter future?

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The Oilers dumped Chiarelli today. Not a surprise given the last two seasons, but taking a cold hard look at both teams, do either team have a contending future?

When I look at the Oil I don’t see a lot to build around.  

I see two top tier forwards in McJesus and Leon, one tradeable asset in RNH but who is good enough and young enough to be a reasonable 2C long-term.  Other then that, there isn’t much.  Puljujarvi is only 20 and still has time plus 19 year old Yamamoto. 

On defense they have the very solid Klefbom, and two 3-6 players in a Larsson and Nurse. All 3 are 23-25 and probably worth keeping.

They have no goaltending.  Their NHL G are 30+ Although they re-signed Koskinen for 3 more years as he has outplayed Talbot.

They do have a couple of good prospects in forward Benson plus D like Bouchard, Ethan Bear and Caleb Jones. 

Honestly they lack any star power on D unless Bouchard develops quickly into a top tier offensive D.  They also have terrible depth scoring issues (except against us).  No idea how the new GM improves the forward depth and the goaltending long-term.

The Oil really don’t look that much different then we do.  Like the Oil we only have 3 forwards of note, (although theirs are better) and we do have two good young forwards developing in the NHL in Thompson and Mitts.  If Nylander and a couple of Olofsson and Asplund can develop into something, we might have a slight edge.

Despite recent results, Defense is where we are ultimately better.  Dahlin, Ristolainen, and McCabe are a much better 1-2-3 then the Oiler combo.  I’d also take Pilut, Guhle, Borgen and a prospect like Oskari over the Oiler pipeline.  However the real difference is Dahlin.

Our goaltending, might be a hair better in the NHL, but the presence of UPL in he pipeline and Ullmark only 25 gives us an edge here as well.

Both teams are saddled with a few bad contracts and under-producing vets like Sekera, Lucic, Russell and Spooner for them vs Okposo, Sobotka, Scandella, Hunwick, but neither team is in any real cap problem other then the Oil this year. 

Overall, I think there is more to work with here.  We have more depth on defense, a brighter future in goal and more high end draft picks to suppliment the team long-term.  That said objectively  both teams are miles from contending.  The McDavid vs Eichel debate is now which franchise is going to waste the career of these two great players.  Right now the Oilers, despite getting a playoff appearance once, is leading the wasted career debate. At least Eichel has Dahlin.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Right now the Oilers, despite getting a playoff appearance once, is leading the wasted career debate.

I think you've pretty much covered everything except that our management might additionally put us ahead.

I think the part I quoted goes all the way back to that draft. We all said back then that McD was gonna be wasted in EDM. That's what led to people being pissed about the lottery. 

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The Oilers have no farm. That's where they're really in trouble.

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Let's see ...

Two top tier forwards ... check

One tradeable good forward ... check

Top notch defender and then some pretty good ones ... check

@GASabresIUFAN ... your first few points are describing the Sabres to a 'T'.  So, the two teams are not all that different.

And then more stuff that is very similar.  Our GM is better, so far, since he has not been fired yet.

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Top forwards: Edm has McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent Hopkins  vs Buffalo's Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner. IF the Sabres resign Skinner, then this slightly goes to Edm (McDavid and Draisaitl beat Eichel and Reinhart...while Skinner Beats Hopkins...but can't make up for how much ahead Edm is with McDavid and DRaisaitl over Jack and Sam)

Rest of the forwards:  Not great for either team, but I'll give this one to the Sabres (I'll admit that might simply be because I know more bout them and because I think they have a little bit of home in Roch where Edmonton has less hope in their minors.)

D-units:  I think Buffalo has it here now (slightly) and has it by a wider margin the future (projecting what Dhalin will/might be)

Goalies:  Its just about even here...present day and future.

Overall, if NOTHING else changed, I slightly like Buffalo. Of course, things change every year.  How much cap room/dead weight contracts are on each team?  What will they do with that room?  Who develops off of the minor league team?

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I'd say Buffalo is in a better place as we have a management system in place, who've had time to lay out and implement their plan/roadmap for the future. Plus we have 3 first round picks this draft.

Edmonton is at square one with resetting a plan going forward and they're going to have to tear down some old foundations to pave way for their future.

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30 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

A crafty GM should turn either franchise into a top contender in roughly 3 years.  

I remember something very similar to this being said by one Tim Murray. Unfortunately that isn't always the case.

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I think we're ahead of them.  As mentioned, defensively I think we're in much better shape.  Also our cap space becomes available a year sooner than theirs.  

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I'd take Reinhart over RNH. Very similar production this season, but Reinhart being 3 years younger gets the edge. 

I still consider Skinner/Draisaitl a wash.

McDavid is better than Eichel.

If Mittelstadt develops into the 2C mold we are hoping for I can see him matching up pretty well with RNH, leaving us with the Reinhart x-factor to help balance out the difference between 97 and 9. 

After that our D can take over. 

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Isn’t kind of sad that for all the years of failure by both teams, especially the Oilers, that both teams really only have 3 good forwards and 2 possible good forwards.  

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1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Isn’t kind of sad that for all the years of failure by both teams, especially the Oilers, that both teams really only have 3 good forwards and 2 possible good forwards.  

#tanking

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7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Isn’t kind of sad that for all the years of failure by both teams, especially the Oilers, that both teams really only have 3 good forwards and 2 possible good forwards.  

Not just sad, outrageous.  And the reason Regier & Murray are gone as well as Lowe & Chiarelli.

Which has a better future?  Ask after we know who Edmonton's non-interim GM is.

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49 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Isn’t kind of sad that for all the years of failure by both teams, especially the Oilers, that both teams really only have 3 good forwards and 2 possible good forwards.  

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

The Sabres don't only have 3 good forwards. More to the point, they don't only have 3 properly slotted forwards. They have a middle-class issue.

Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart (the 3 you are referring to) are all properly slotted.

Sheary is a capable 2W. He just needs a centreman.

There's nothing wrong with Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues as a 4th line, in fact it's probably above average. That's 7/12 properly filled. We have a middle-6 issue. Particularly at centre: Sobotka and Thompson flanking a capable 3C I think makes a capable line.

We are short 2 middle-6 centres and a 2nd line RW.  If Mittelstadt fills one of those centre spots....look, we need a damn 2C, stat.

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart

Sheary - BLANK - BLANK

Sobotka - 19/20 Casey - Thompson

Girgensons - Larsson - Rodrigues

There's work to do but we are probably a good second line centre from having a playoff caliber forward lineup. 

Edited by Thorny

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So Oilers vs. Sabres comparison instead of Sabres vs. any other middling team because ? 

1.) Nothing much else interesting to talk about

2.) We share the longest records for futility or failure to reach playoffs.

3.) We lost the no 1 for McDavid and got Jack for it. 

4.) in 2007 we matched Vaneks 7 year 50 million contract offer instead of taking their next 3 years number 1's.

Its all good because I would say for all of the above... 

Its clearly the Sabres for me because; they have almost shed all the bad contracts, they've built up the farm, they have restocked the pond, they still have lots of good draft capital, The management structure has a plan they shared and have been executing pretty well on it and our defense has lots more potential both on board and in the pipeline even w/o the draft capital to still spend. 

Now gimme a solid PP coach this year and this teams record would really reflect that we are better...      

 

 

Edited by R_Dudley

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Mcdavid >>>>>Eichel

Draisaitl < Reinhart

RNH < Skinner

rest of Edm <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dahlin 

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

The Sabres don't only have 3 good forwards. More to the point, they don't only have 3 properly slotted forwards. They have a middle-class issue.

Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart (the 3 you are referring to) are all properly slotted.

Sheary is a capable 2W. He just needs a centreman.

There's nothing wrong with Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues as a 4th line, in fact it's probably above average. That's 7/12 probably filled. We have a middle-6 issue. Particularly at centre: Sobotka and Thompson flanking a capable 3C I think makes a capable line.

We are short 2 middle-6 centres and a 2nd line RW.  If Mittelstadt fills one of those centre spots....look, we need a damn 2C, stat.

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart

Sheary - BLANK - BLANK

Sobotka - 19/20 Casey - Thompson

Girgensons - Larsson - Rodrigues

There's work to do but we are probably a good second line centre from having a playoff caliber forward lineup. 

Sheary is a replacement level hockey player. 

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7 minutes ago, jame said:

Mcdavid >>>>>Eichel

Draisaitl < Reinhart

RNH < Skinner

rest of Edm <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dahlin 

Sheary is a replacement level hockey player. 

Then tack on a footnote that says Sabres are in need of an entire second line. That line will come together quick once it gets its centreman. 

Edited by Thorny

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52 minutes ago, Weave said:

#tanking

One team tanked , the other just has really sucked

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1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Then tack on a footnote that says Sabres are in need of an entire second line. That line will come together quick once it gets its centreman. 

We went through the whole Vanek/Roy era saying that... god trading ROR was so dumb 

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Just now, jame said:

We went through the whole Vanek/Roy era saying that... god trading ROR was so dumb 

In that era we needed a first line centre. We've got that covered. The position in most need this time is immeasurably easier to fill. 

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1 minute ago, Thorny said:

In that era we needed a first line centre. We've got that covered. The position in most need this time is immeasurably easier to fill. 

Contender level 2Cs are first line centers....

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10 minutes ago, jame said:

Contender level 2Cs are first line centers....

If by first line centre you mean an accurate representation of what a 1st line centre usually is, than sure maybe. I.e - 60-ish points.

Vegas 2C last year - Erik Haula

Predators the year before - Mike Fisher

Sharks in 2016 - Logan Couture

Blackhawks won the Cup in 2015 with Brad Richards as their 2C, Lightning runner up with Johnson playing as their 1C. 

Edited by Thorny

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