RUSS BRANDON OUT

[pi2000]

B) Rumors are swirling it's a prominent media member. This makes sense to me. Why? Well, what was a huge reason Murray was fired, and what was a huge criteria and their search for the next GM's? If you don't recall, it was trust, professionalism, and a big emphasis and things discussed in the building staying in the building. Having an affair with a media member really goes against all 3 of those 

 

Harrington?  

[PASabreFan]

Yuck. Thoughts go out to the employees he was harassing or whatever. Hope they have the help they need.  

 

There's been no reporting of harassment. The relationships could have been consensual, just unprofessional.

This was the entirety of the exchange. Josie went on to agree with Liger that he could guarantee that Brandon used a power dynamic or discrepancy or whatever to do whatever he did. I merely pointed out that those statements were premature. I could have let it go, because a "dude" shouldn't challenge a woman on things like this, but that surely would have been sexist. My thinking was that Josie can engage in thought and argument. The opposite of sexist, actually. Pardon me not for falling in line. If that makes me a knuckle-dragging, woman-steamrollin' boomer, fine. Nice stereotype there.

 

Anyway, I think everyone, even Russ Brandon, is entitled to the presumption of innocence and a fair hearing in the court of public opinion. Or are we just going to make our own assumptions based on our world views and ignore what is known, which, in this case, is virtually nothing?

I would prefer that to the departure of good posters who are in this thread.

I think you know what Franklin said.

[Georgia Blizzard]

I think some on this board fail to realize why a relationship between the PRESIDENT of the team and virtually any subordinate is never simply "unprofessional" it is always a form or harassment because of the power dynamic.  Educate yourselves, listen to women who have been through this before, read the accounts of others who kept silent about behavior out of fear.  Calling this unprofessional is guy code for "it's no big deal" that's why Joise left.

[Huckleberry]

Hahah that was actually for SDS. He just closed the TSW thread so I thought we were next

 

Great timing though :lol:

 

Yeah but I read that at work this morning a bit, was a really slow day at work :p

And that thread is a lot worse than this one and its not even close.

[WildCard]

I think some on this board fail to realize why a relationship between the PRESIDENT of the team and virtually any subordinate is never simply "unprofessional" it is always a form or harassment because of the power dynamic.  Educate yourselves, listen to women who have been through this before, read the accounts of others who kept silent about behavior out of fear.  Calling this unprofessional is guy code for "it's no big deal" that's why Joise left.

I literally just posted a true story about the owners involved in this and their relationship between the CEO and his subordinate 

[PASabreFan]

I think some on this board fail to realize why a relationship between the PRESIDENT of the team and virtually any subordinate is never simply "unprofessional" it is always a form or harassment because of the power dynamic.  Educate yourselves, listen to women who have been through this before, read the accounts of others who kept silent about behavior out of fear.  Calling this unprofessional is guy code for "it's no big deal" that's why Joise left.

I do think this is the crux of it. It's interesting that Josie wrote "harassment or whatever." I think there she was acknowledging that it could have been something less than harassment, however you want to define it (consensual, maybe). I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it. Then again, I like my gals preggers, barefoot and lovin' it.

I literally just posted a true story about the owners involved in this and their relationship between the CEO and his subordinate 

It's a problem for those who are arguing that any relationship between the boss and employee is de facto harassment. Their relationship did predate her working for him, but still...

[WildCard]

It's a problem for those who are arguing that any relationship between the boss and employee is de facto harassment. Their relationship did predate her working for him, but still...

No it didn't predate her working for him. 

[darksabre]

I do think this is the crux of it. It's interesting that Josie wrote "harassment or whatever." I think there she was acknowledging that it could have been something less than harassment, however you want to define it (consensual, maybe). I don't think it's as cut and dry as you're making it. Then again, I like my gals preggers, barefoot and lovin' it.

It's a problem for those who are arguing that any relationship between the boss and employee is de facto harassment. Their relationship did predate her working for him, but still...

Oh snap, now you're just finally starting to actually read what she wrote. Took you long enough. 

 

Her statement didn't need any correcting from you guys. She anticipated the "maybe they weren't victims" argument because she knew people were going to come for her about it and that didn't even stop you! 

 

Do you get it yet?

[Marvelo]

When you look at the case of Russ Brandon, we will never know whether there was workplace coercion or if it was a consensual extramarital affair with an office worker unless we see a lawsuit later. It's a topic that was covered in the best-selling book/movie 50 Shades of Grey. There's not much new under the sun here.

 

But there might be hypocrisy in action here. A similar thing may have happened between Terry and Kim, when she was his employee between '91-92. Terry may have already been married at the time of the budding relationship, but information about his first wife has been completely scrubbed off the internet "for some reason." 

 

One clue is what Kim once said about Pegula's children with his first wife.

 

“Obviously divorce on kids is always hard – especially when you’re in those teen years, and you’re going through a bunch of other things,” said Kim....

 

So the kids were in their teen years when Pegula got a divorce. Well in 1991, his son Michael was 13-14 and his sister Laura was 5 years younger.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Marvelo

[josie]

Alrighty, since my nose is bleeding from all the mentions of me and arguing in my name and whatnot, a few things.

 

1- When I said I'm out, I meant, oh f*ck this, I'm not doing this tonight. I lurk a lot. I don't say much. Reasons being- I don't like arguing much, I'm not a fan of drama, and while I have lots of very deep and fiery opinions, I rarely/never share them because I'm exhausted. Nothing I say or opine is exactly ground shattering or glass ceiling shattering. I see worse opinions than the majority of you every hour on twitter (and I curate as best I can-holy sh!t some of the "hot takes" on Kim right now... some of that TBD flair, yo). But why argue when people have no desire to change their minds? In general. I'm someone who considers every side of the thing. I see it. I don't often agree with it. I will continue to lurk here and annoy you guys in the OT threads with my stupid life stories and pictures. 

 

2- For those critical of me not defending me/dark doing it for me/probably thinking i'm some stupid martyr baby. I simply logged off last night and didn't come back until lunch today. Wow. I left because I thought- "this thread is going to devolve immediately". And it did. Sure I was a catalyst but someone would've said something similar to me (like it was particularly controversial, man) and it would've gone anyways. This is the sort of topic that always does. Inappropriate something or other, a firing of a big head, and now, to spice it up more- a woman taking over (Kim isn't really a topic in here, just overall- this is exploding all over social media, not just here). Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm not taken seriously a lot in general. I get talked over frequently in real life and on the internet. I see my ideas ignored and then represented by others to great acclaim. I'm sorry that I leave in a huff sometimes when maybe it isn't super obvious why. 

 

3- Coddling me. Don't. I know I get it to some degree because I'm dark's old lady and I'm not really a battle-axe anyways. It's not coddling in this case, it's looking with a different perspective. None of the language I use regarding being a woman/having an outside opinion is particularly crazy. If you're being a bit of a dinosaur, I'll give you a little nip. I'm not SJWing every post. I do from time to time and I'm painfully aware no one cares/it's no way to make friends. I'm a sh!tty feminist because I'd rather have the friends. Besides, you can change a friend's mind better than an enemy's. Dark's responses are because he has to listen to me ranting and yelling and grumping around our shoebox sized apartment when something on the internet makes me angry. I was pretty peeved last night. Overreading whatever minuscule amount of replies there were to me? Maybe- but I knew if I stuck around the same convo would happen with me involved, and I didn't have time to hunch over my keyboard until 1am having this exact grumpathon with y'all. 

 

I almost made an additional point last night with my initial post/grenade down the hatch. I almost said that my sympathy for those affected by this is very in part to the fact that the internet will scour and witchhunt until they can find out who the person/s in question are, and then blast them for it/doo gross internet things. Y'all ain't doing that here, but there's a post a page or so back where supposedly they've already figured out who one of the people are.

 

And yes, I said "whatever" because I knew someone who loves semantics would come charging in to play devil's advocate. It's a message board. It happens. I try to head things off at the pass. I don't usually throw grenades (I really don't think this even counted initially, but we all need a catalyst) without knowing damn will how to put a pin back in them. I'm not a total f*cking idiot.

 

This fight/discussion happens every few months, or every few weeks outside of this board. There's a lot of emotion to any situation that has a whiff of sexual impropriety to it. It's exhausting for us all. I'm sorry I didn't "fight for myself" or whatever. I just thought man, if you knew one of the people who was involved in this mess and being touted as "the other person/the victim/chemical x", wouldn't you feel like ###### for them, whatever the case? Maybe everyone's to blame and everyone sucks. Maybe those "victims" were fired. We don't know. But evidently, who's the blame is the crux of this, it's very male vs female. Argue amongst yourselves. 

 

I'm sorry I became a focal point in here. I hate that. I have a lot of work to do and three jobs to keep going (seriously, i went from too little to too much and I'm dyin' ova hea), so I'mma log off for awhile. Be kind. Hate me if you want. Treat me like a fragile package if you want. It's the internet. I'm not new to it. You guys are nothing compared to rape and death threats I get sometimes for just existing on twitter. 

 

Holy f*ck that's a book. If you're skimming looking for your name, relax, I'm too lazy to bother (and have no need to. not mad at anyone. just tired) :P

Edited May 2, 2018 by josie

[That Aud Smell]

PLEASE. Must everything be thought about and debated?!

 

Ha.

[Samson's Flow]

Alrighty, since my nose is bleeding from all the mentions of me and arguing in my name and whatnot, a few things.

 

1- When I said I'm out, I meant, oh f*ck this, I'm not doing this tonight. I lurk a lot. I don't say much. Reasons being- I don't like arguing much, I'm not a fan of drama, and while I have lots of very deep and fiery opinions, I rarely/never share them because I'm exhausted. Nothing I say or opine is exactly ground shattering or glass ceiling shattering. I see worse opinions than the majority of you every hour on twitter (and I curate as best I can-holy sh!t some of the "hot takes" on Kim right now... some of that TBD flair, yo). But why argue when people have no desire to change their minds? In general. I'm someone who considers every side of the thing. I see it. I don't often agree with it. I will continue to lurk here and annoy you guys in the OT threads with my stupid life stories and pictures. 

 

2- For those critical of me not defending me/dark doing it for me/probably thinking i'm some stupid martyr baby. I simply logged off last night and didn't come back until lunch today. Wow. I left because I thought- "this thread is going to devolve immediately". And it did. Sure I was a catalyst but someone would've said something similar to me (like it was particularly controversial, man) and it would've gone anyways. This is the sort of topic that always does. Inappropriate something or other, a firing of a big head, and now, to spice it up more- a woman taking over (Kim isn't really a topic in here, just overall- this is exploding all over social media, not just here). 

 

3- Coddling me. Don't. I know I get it to some degree because I'm dark's old lady and I'm not really a battle-axe anyways. It's not coddling in this case, it's looking with a different perspective. None of the language I use regarding being a woman/having an outside opinion is particularly crazy. I'm not SJWing every post. I do from time to time and I'm painfully aware no one cares/it's no way to make friends. I'm a sh!tty feminist because I'd rather have the friends. Besides, you can change a friend's mind better than an enemy's. Dark's responses are because he has to listen to me ranting and yelling and grumping around our shoebox sized apartment when something on the internet makes me angry. I was pretty peeved last night. Overreading whatever minuscule amount of replies there were to me? Maybe- but I knew if I stuck around the same convo would happen with me involved, and I didn't have time to hunch over my keyboard until 1am having this exact grumpathon with y'all. 

 

I almost made an additional point last night with my initial post/grenade down the hatch. I almost said that my sympathy for those affected by this is very in part to the fact that the internet will scour and witchhunt until they can find out who the person/s in question are, and then blast them for it/doo gross internet things. Y'all ain't doing that here, but there's a post a page or so back where supposedly they've already figured out who one of the people are.

 

And yes, I said "whatever" because I knew someone who loves semantics would come charging in to play devil's advocate. It's a message board. It happens. I try to head things off at the pass. I don't usually throw grenades (I really don't think this even counted initially, but we all need a catalyst) without knowing damn will how to put a pin back in them. I'm not a total f*cking idiot.

 

This fight/discussion happens every few months, or every few weeks outside of this board. There's a lot of emotion to any situation that has a whiff of sexual impropriety to it. It's exhausting for us all. I'm sorry I didn't "fight for myself" or whatever. I just thought man, if you knew one of the people who was involved in this mess and being touted as "the other person/the victim/chemical x", wouldn't you feel like ###### for them, whatever the case? Maybe everyone's to blame and everyone sucks. Maybe those "victims" were fired. We don't know. But evidently, who's the blame is the crux of this, it's very male vs female. Argue amongst yourselves. 

 

I'm sorry I became a focal point in here. I hate that. I have a lot of work to do and three jobs to keep going (seriously, i went from too little to too much and I'm dyin' ova hea), so I'mma log off for awhile. Be kind. Hate me if you want. Treat me like a fragile package if you want. It's the internet. I'm not new to it. You guys are nothing compared to rape and death threats I get sometimes for just existing on twitter. 

 

Holy f*ck that's a book. If you're skimming looking for your name, relax, I'm too lazy to bother (and have no need to. not mad at anyone. just tired) :P

Thanks Josie. Lots of good context and points in there.

 

You brought up one thing that we haven't mentioned much, and that is how the gossip train wants to discover and talk about who the woman in question was who caused the eventual termination. It's a product of our social media world where we expect that we should know every aspect of a very private situation. It's good enough for me to know that Brandon is a seemingly grimy guy and based on first-hand source conversations i've had with co-workers and friends, I believe it 100%. I don't need to know that Jane Doe had a relationship with him (consensual or otherwise) because I really don't care - does it change anything about the story other than judging her and her physical appearance. Doesn't matter if it's Roseanne Barr or Gisele Bundchen, it still comes down to Russ had enough strikes to convince the Pegulas to ask for his resignation and never mention his name or thank him after the initial announcement.

 

I've had plenty of quality interactions with Josie as a poster, but i'll leave it at that.

...not that it matters...

[SwampD]

Alrighty, since my nose is bleeding from all the mentions of me and arguing in my name and whatnot, a few things.

 

1- When I said I'm out, I meant, oh f*ck this, I'm not doing this tonight. I lurk a lot. I don't say much. Reasons being- I don't like arguing much, I'm not a fan of drama, and while I have lots of very deep and fiery opinions, I rarely/never share them because I'm exhausted. Nothing I say or opine is exactly ground shattering or glass ceiling shattering. I see worse opinions than the majority of you every hour on twitter (and I curate as best I can-holy sh!t some of the "hot takes" on Kim right now... some of that TBD flair, yo). But why argue when people have no desire to change their minds? In general. I'm someone who considers every side of the thing. I see it. I don't often agree with it. I will continue to lurk here and annoy you guys in the OT threads with my stupid life stories and pictures. 

 

2- For those critical of me not defending me/dark doing it for me/probably thinking i'm some stupid martyr baby. I simply logged off last night and didn't come back until lunch today. Wow. I left because I thought- "this thread is going to devolve immediately". And it did. Sure I was a catalyst but someone would've said something similar to me (like it was particularly controversial, man) and it would've gone anyways. This is the sort of topic that always does. Inappropriate something or other, a firing of a big head, and now, to spice it up more- a woman taking over (Kim isn't really a topic in here, just overall- this is exploding all over social media, not just here). Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm not taken seriously a lot in general. I get talked over frequently in real life and on the internet. I see my ideas ignored and then represented by others to great acclaim. I'm sorry that I leave in a huff sometimes when maybe it isn't super obvious why. 

 

3- Coddling me. Don't. I know I get it to some degree because I'm dark's old lady and I'm not really a battle-axe anyways. It's not coddling in this case, it's looking with a different perspective. None of the language I use regarding being a woman/having an outside opinion is particularly crazy. I'm not SJWing every post. I do from time to time and I'm painfully aware no one cares/it's no way to make friends. I'm a sh!tty feminist because I'd rather have the friends. Besides, you can change a friend's mind better than an enemy's. Dark's responses are because he has to listen to me ranting and yelling and grumping around our shoebox sized apartment when something on the internet makes me angry. I was pretty peeved last night. Overreading whatever minuscule amount of replies there were to me? Maybe- but I knew if I stuck around the same convo would happen with me involved, and I didn't have time to hunch over my keyboard until 1am having this exact grumpathon with y'all. 

 

I almost made an additional point last night with my initial post/grenade down the hatch. I almost said that my sympathy for those affected by this is very in part to the fact that the internet will scour and witchhunt until they can find out who the person/s in question are, and then blast them for it/doo gross internet things. Y'all ain't doing that here, but there's a post a page or so back where supposedly they've already figured out who one of the people are.

 

And yes, I said "whatever" because I knew someone who loves semantics would come charging in to play devil's advocate. It's a message board. It happens. I try to head things off at the pass. I don't usually throw grenades (I really don't think this even counted initially, but we all need a catalyst) without knowing damn will how to put a pin back in them. I'm not a total f*cking idiot.

 

This fight/discussion happens every few months, or every few weeks outside of this board. There's a lot of emotion to any situation that has a whiff of sexual impropriety to it. It's exhausting for us all. I'm sorry I didn't "fight for myself" or whatever. I just thought man, if you knew one of the people who was involved in this mess and being touted as "the other person/the victim/chemical x", wouldn't you feel like ###### for them, whatever the case? Maybe everyone's to blame and everyone sucks. Maybe those "victims" were fired. We don't know. But evidently, who's the blame is the crux of this, it's very male vs female. Argue amongst yourselves. 

 

I'm sorry I became a focal point in here. I hate that. I have a lot of work to do and three jobs to keep going (seriously, i went from too little to too much and I'm dyin' ova hea), so I'mma log off for awhile. Be kind. Hate me if you want. Treat me like a fragile package if you want. It's the internet. I'm not new to it. You guys are nothing compared to rape and death threats I get sometimes for just existing on twitter. 

 

Holy f*ck that's a book. If you're skimming looking for your name, relax, I'm too lazy to bother (and have no need to. not mad at anyone. just tired) :P

Sooooo,... dark is the one that needs coddling?

[Samson's Flow]

Also I had to look up what "SJW" meant, so not sure if that indicates my dis-engagement on this subject or not. I'm apparently not up on the latest acronyms yo.

 

(FYI it's Social Justice Warrior) 

[Jsixspd]

I'll submit that fans are not apt to impose the same sort of criteria on male owners who assume the mantle of president.

 

 

I'll also note that there are a half-dozen implications above that just make me SMDH.

 

Kim is a 1991 graduate of Houghton. She majored in communications, evidently. I think you gotta do more than Wiki her to learn that, though.

 

Looks like you saved the best for last -- she's where she is because of "romantic leanings." Lord save us. Saints preserve us.

 

Here's a thought experiment: A large part of what Terry was attracted to in her were qualities, talents, and skills that will translate well to business administration. A human touch. An unwillingness to suffer fools. Honesty. Diligence. And so on.

 

Anyhoo. She's part owner of the team. And with that come all rights and privileges associated with that status. 

 

I have my own concerns over whether she's in over her head. But I'd feel the same way about Terry (more so in fact), and I used to think the same about Ralph. I also think she can't help but be an improvement over Brandon.

Alright- a communications major - applying to waitress at a restaurant - and Pegula, just sitting there having lunch,  hires her with zero experience into the Natural Gas /Fracking industry..... because he thinks she's the best person for the job, whatever that might be or mean.    Then just by coincidence they hit it off and become man and wife less than 2 years later.  Communications major - I'm not sure that Pegula was doing a lot of media interviews or press releases at that time.  

 

Tell you what - go to a similar industry or business for which YOU have zero demonstrable qualifications, experience, training, education, or standing in, put in an application, and tell me how it goes.  LOL  In almost every business, the vast majority of such apps would end up in the old circular file.   

 

BTW, they were married in 1993, so the personal relationship must have begun about when the professional one did.  That's just a logical inference - I'd gather he was clearly attracted to her on a personal level in the restaurant in Olean.  I think to assume otherwise would be somewhat naive.

 

And so he hires this lady he's attracted to- given the under 2 years from meeting to marriage, their relationship started pretty early, if not before her employ- probably IN that restaurant. 

 

Do you honestly think that her 1st annual evaluation as an employee would be as stringent as for Joe Smith working for Pegula?  Perhaps it would - I highly doubt it though. 

 

We can agree on the last point - I think she HAS to be better than Brandon - an individual who many fans including myself have disliked for years, just based on his negative influence on the on-field product, and his oily public statements.  I wasn't even privy to the back story about him, as you are, or I would have outright despised him.  

 

Like you, I have concerns.  Other than her last name, and she's the boss' wife,  is she the best qualified person for the job?  Possibly.  Or is Roy Rolston a good analogy -  as you may recall Roy was the best candidate for HC of the Sabres - in Darcy's office at that time.    

 

 

 

[josie]

Sooooo,... dark is the one that needs coddling?

Maybe we all need a good coddling. Spread some love in the world.

 

Wait, that's cuddling. Well, that's fine too.

 

Also I had to look up what "SJW" meant, so not sure if that indicates my dis-engagement on this subject or not. I'm apparently not up on the latest acronyms yo.

 

(FYI it's Social Justice Warrior) 

Ah yep, it's a pretty common bandied about term these days. It has become an insult for the most part. The usual reasons, some people in a generally good movement took it too far, people didn't like it, etc etc yadda yadda internet go boom. 

 

Thanks Josie. Lots of good context and points in there.

 

You brought up one thing that we haven't mentioned much, and that is how the gossip train wants to discover and talk about who the woman in question was who caused the eventual termination. It's a product of our social media world where we expect that we should know every aspect of a very private situation. It's good enough for me to know that Brandon is a seemingly grimy guy and based on first-hand source conversations i've had with co-workers and friends, I believe it 100%. I don't need to know that Jane Doe had a relationship with him (consensual or otherwise) because I really don't care - does it change anything about the story other than judging her and her physical appearance. Doesn't matter if it's Roseanne Barr or Gisele Bundchen, it still comes down to Russ had enough strikes to convince the Pegulas to ask for his resignation and never mention his name or thank him after the initial announcement.

 

I've had plenty of quality interactions with Josie as a poster, but i'll leave it at that.

...not that it matters...

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I don't need to know who. But don't we always want to know who? Curiosity, morbid curiosity, man. As someone who watches/listens to/reads loads of content about serial killers and other awful things... the mob needs something to teethe on. Saints and sinners, never a grey area.  

 

it still comes down to Russ had enough strikes to convince the Pegulas to ask for his resignation and never mention his name or thank him after the initial announcement.

 

This is why I'm not over here going oh poor Russ it's all a setup. Hence my initial victims comment. Something's awfully rotten in the state of PSE and someone took the trash out. 

[inkman]

[That Aud Smell]

We can agree on the last point - I think she HAS to be better than Brandon - an individual who many fans including myself have disliked for years, just based on his negative influence on the on-field product, and his oily public statements. 

 

Thanks for taking that time to draft a reply. So many moving parts here.

 

Adios, Brandon, is right.

 

p.s. Will there be more fallout? Russ's brother is general counsel. Does he stick around?

[shrader]

Maybe we all need a good coddling. Spread some love in the world.

 

Wait, that's cuddling. Well, that's fine too.

 

 

If I'm forced to cuddle with d4rk, I think I will have to take his advice and walk away.  I'll leave that job to inky.

[josie]

If I'm forced to cuddle with d4rk, I think I will have to take his advice and walk away.  I'll leave that job to inky.

Aw he doesn't smell _that_ bad.  And you wouldn't have to walk, call Ink's Uber. win-win-win. 

[TrueBlueGED]

Sooooo,... dark is the one that needs coddling?

Have you seen his hairline recently? I'd need a hug too.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I'm about to inject some digital Ativan up in here, we can all eat cheetos and cuddle/spoon and braid each other's hair (what is left of it for some here ????????)

[North Buffalo]

I'm about to inject some digital Ativan up in here, we can all eat cheetos and cuddle/spoon and braid each other's hair (what is left of it for some here )

Singing Kumbaya?!

[josie]

Have you seen his hairline recently? I'd need a hug too.

WOW

 

I'm about to inject some digital Ativan up in here, we can all eat cheetos and cuddle/spoon and braid each other's hair (what is left of it for some here )

WOW

 

Singing Kumbaya?!

Apparently jingles for rogaine 

[Randall Flagg]

I figured.

 

 

Boy, I didn't get that from that exchange at all.

I'm way behind in this thread, but at the time of Josie's posting and then reading the aftermath, I was just as confused as you and shrader about this.

 

I guess that probably makes me The Bad Man too? 

 

I don't mean that with any snark or as a joke. I seriously am missing something about "the times" that dark mentioned, I guess.