DEADLINE DAY -- Sabres trade speculation

[pi2000]

Except it is not the same, Pittsburgh didn't have a depleted team when Crosby showed up.  They were not a good team, but they didn't have a bunch of AAAA and castoffs that were hired to make the NHL salary floor.  There was a base of players that led and taught.

 

Vets on the team Sidney's rookie year:

Gonchar

Leclair

Lemieux

Malone

Orpik

Palffy

Recchi

Scuderi

Tarnstrom

 

Compare that to teams one offseason out of a tank. 

 

dust

[Weave]

Some of those vets were signed AFTER Crosby was drafted. Gonchar definitely fits that bill. Don't have the inclination to figure out who else came after Syd.

 

[EDIT] Decided to go back & look. Recchi was signed right before the lockout. He & LeClair were in Filly the previous season.

 

Lemieux only played 10 games in '03-'04.

 

Palffy brought in after Crosby.

 

Scuderi was essentially a rookie as he'd only played 13 games in '03-'04. Malone had been a rookie in '03-'04 also.

 

Tarnstrom & Orpik were the only 2 vets that were actually playing for the Pens before the lockout. A Pens team that had 58 points in '03-'04. And only 69 & 65 points the 2 prior years. They were 29th overall in both '03 & '04.

 

Go back and look at that 03-04 roster and compare it to our tank roster.  It was not a good team, but it was an NHL team.  Pittsburgh was in a similar boat as Chicago before Bill Wirtz died, or when Rigas went to the Federal Country Club.  They were doing their best to field an NHL hockey team with a small budget, walking a bankruptcy tightrope.  The roster wasn't gutted.

 

Our team was stripped to bare soil.  Everything gone.  No framework left to add to.  It was never a good plan.  Unless your goal was to plant a garden.

[Sherman]

I always felt the NHL rigged the Crosby draft for Pittsburgh. Two stories going into the draft lottery. 1) What will Pittsburgh do facing bankruptcy and needing a new arena. 2) Who will win the lottery and draft Crosby.

[Taro T]

Go back and look at that 03-04 roster and compare it to our tank roster.  It was not a good team, but it was an NHL team.  Pittsburgh was in a similar boat as Chicago before Bill Wirtz died, or when Rigas went to the Federal Country Club.  They were doing their best to field an NHL hockey team with a small budget, walking a bankruptcy tightrope.  The roster wasn't gutted.

 

Our team was stripped to bare soil.  Everything gone.  No framework left to add to.  It was never a good plan.  Unless your goal was to plant a garden.

And Chicago was all of 1 point better than the Pens in '03-'04.

 

That Pittsburgh team gave up more than 40 goals more than the next worse team. They lost 18 in a row & 14 at home. They sold off a ton of players from that '01 squad that snuck past the Sabres. You can call it not a tank if it makes you feel better because it was done because Mario was severely undercapitalized, but it was a tank. 96 points in '01, to 69 the next year on their way down to 58 two years later.

[Robviously]

Last year or the year before? Not so much. 

 

This year? A much better player than Reinhart haha

The only time either of these teams tanked is the Pens for Lemieux 

 

having bad ownership and therefore a bad team is not the same as dropping a nuke onto your roster

The roster deserved to be nuked.  Is everyone forgetting how much we hated the teams we had in the years leading up to the Tank?  

 

We were terrible to start every season and then there'd we'd string together some meaningless wins to end the season.  Exactly 0% of the end of season momentum would carry into the following season and we'd be out of the playoffs again.  And again and again.

 

Those teams were awful, and awful to watch.  We lost nothing by destroying them to Tank.

 

And the year after the Tank we had 81 points, so basically no lingering effects from that disaster of a season.  It's just that the team Murray built also sucked, and we're still trying to fix that.

 

Tearing down and rebuilding works in pretty much every sport.  The Astros and Cubs won the last 2 World Series.  They weren't *trying* to lose but trading all your assets for future assets is basically the same thing.  You're giving up everything right now to get a lot more later.  Inter-temporal trades work. 

[Thorny]

No team that tanks "benefits" from a situation in which it is 80% likely that it will NOT get the prize.  This is the point, and one of several important reasons why it was an idiotic plan.

 

Having said that, I did not intend to reopen the tanking discussion, which I think has been well and thoroughly aired multiple times.  I just couldn't let Robvy's assertion pass unremarked on, especially with the irrefutable contrary evidence staring us in the face year after dreary year.

The saving grace of the ‘15 tank was that it guaranteed Eichel. But I agree it’s not a good strategy in general.

 

Right on.  Especially given JBott's stated preference to let prospects learn the ropes in the AHL, it's highly unlikely that Pu, Olofsson, next year's #1 or Casey for that matter will be on the Sabres.

I bet Mittelstadt is a Sabre.

[WildCard]

The roster deserved to be nuked.  Is everyone forgetting how much we hated the teams we had in the years leading up to the Tank?  

 

We were terrible to start every season and then there'd we'd string together some meaningless wins to end the season.  Exactly 0% of the end of season momentum would carry into the following season and we'd be out of the playoffs again.  And again and again.

 

Those teams were awful, and awful to watch.  We lost nothing by destroying them to Tank.

 

And the year after the Tank we had 81 points, so basically no lingering effects from that disaster of a season.  It's just that the team Murray built also sucked, and we're still trying to fix that.

 

Tearing down and rebuilding works in pretty much every sport.  The Astros and Cubs won the last 2 World Series.  They weren't *trying* to lose but trading all your assets for future assets is basically the same thing.  You're giving up everything right now to get a lot more later.  Inter-temporal trades work. 

[bunomatic]

The roster deserved to be nuked.  Is everyone forgetting how much we hated the teams we had in the years leading up to the Tank?  

 

We were terrible to start every season and then there'd we'd string together some meaningless wins to end the season.  Exactly 0% of the end of season momentum would carry into the following season and we'd be out of the playoffs again.  And again and again.

 

Those teams were awful, and awful to watch.  We lost nothing by destroying them to Tank.

 

And the year after the Tank we had 81 points, so basically no lingering effects from that disaster of a season.  It's just that the team Murray built also sucked, and we're still trying to fix that.

 

Tearing down and rebuilding works in pretty much every sport.  The Astros and Cubs won the last 2 World Series.  They weren't *trying* to lose but trading all your assets for future assets is basically the same thing.  You're giving up everything right now to get a lot more later.  Inter-temporal trades work. 

word

[Brawndo]

Dreger on GR today

 

States it’s quiet in terms of trade chatter.

 

Feels that Botterill doesn’t have a handle on the full market as of yet and will wait until he does as teams haven’t decided whether to buy or sell. Mentioned the GMs that wait usually get the best deal for their players.

[Doohickie]

I bet Mittelstadt is a Sabre.

 

If he's a one & done in the NCAA, it won't be to play in the AHL.

[erickompositör72]

If he's a one & done in the NCAA, it won't be to play in the AHL.

 

I was thinking the same thing. And if he wants to play in the NHL, woe is GMBot to deny him and tempt him to pull a Vesey/Butcher

[Brawndo]

https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/mcdonagh-nash-zuccarello-rangers-are-ready-to-blow-it-up/

 

 

Rangers are ready to put Nash on the market, does that make him the most sought after player at the deadline?

I was thinking the same thing. And if he wants to play in the NHL, woe is GMBot to deny him and tempt him to pull a Vesey/Butcher

Even if the Sabres tell him to stay one more year, he is not going to pull a Vesey.

[TrueBlueGED]

https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/mcdonagh-nash-zuccarello-rangers-are-ready-to-blow-it-up/

 

 

Rangers are ready to put Nash on the market, does that make him the most sought after player at the deadline?

 

Even if the Sabres tell him to stay one more year, he is not going to pull a Vesey.

 

Ryan McDonagh is one of the few names I'd accept in an O'Reilly trade. 

[Drunkard]

Ryan McDonagh is one of the few names I'd accept in an O'Reilly trade. 

 

Maybe after July 1st when you can sign him to an extension. I wouldn't trade for him before that point.

[WildCard]

Ryan McDonagh is one of the few names I'd accept in an O'Reilly trade. 

Hard pass

[Brawndo]

Just for fun I looked Eklund Rumors.

 

No I’m not Day Drinking and yes I realize that his rumors are true .00001% of the time but I was curious what he was spewing.

 

He says the Sabres and Montreal are both looking at Hanifin with ROR Pacioretty the rumored asks as part of a deal.

 

In terms of Kane, The Blues have a “Try to top it deal on the table” Maybe Kyrou plus? Nashville, Pittsburgh and San Jose are the others interested.

[Randall Flagg]

I'm a McDonagh fan. He was the only thing that held that defense together before Skjei developed. 

[LGR4GM]

The nice thing is we have an entire weekend to get a deal done

[Crusader1969]

Just for fun I looked Eklund Rumors.

No I’m not Day Drinking and yes I realize that his rumors are true .00001% of the time but I was curious what he was spewing.

He says the Sabres and Montreal are both looking at Hanifin with ROR Pacioretty the rumored asks as part of a deal.

In terms of Kane, The Blues have a “Try to top it deal on the table” Maybe Kyrou plus? Nashville, Pittsburgh and San Jose are the others interested.

kyrou plus 2019 first and a conditional pick if Kane signs with St.L? I don't need to wait, deal needs to get done.

[LGR4GM]

kyrou plus 2019 first and a conditional pick if Kane signs with St.L? I don't need to wait, deal needs to get done.

Would have to be a conditional 2019 1st if he signs or they go to the conference final. Other pick should be their 2018 2nd.

[TrueBlueGED]

Maybe after July 1st when you can sign him to an extension. I wouldn't trade for him before that point.

 

Well yea, extension in-hand is a given.

 

Hard pass

 

Why not? He's a stud. 

[3putt]

I would make that deal for McDonagh. 

[WildCard]

Well yea, extension in-hand is a given.

 

 

Why not? He's a stud. 

He's 28 and a UFA after next year. I'll admit I don't see a ton of him, but his offensive numbers do look pretty good. I would just think we can get more for RoR.

[apuszczalowski]

Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know.

sure, will you be letting the oilers and coyotes know?

[Robviously]

sure, will you be letting the oilers and coyotes know?

I'm too busy letting the Devils and the Avalanche know that you can't turn the team around quickly when you finish at the bottom of the league.

 

Just because the Sabres, Oilers, and Coyotes have wildly incompetent leadership, that doesn't invalidate the strategy and rationale of rebuilding or the fact that you can turn your team around in 1 season with some smart moves and a little luck.  Are we really supposed to base all of our beliefs on team strategy around what happens when your GM is worthless?