DEADLINE DAY -- Sabres trade speculation

[Weave]

The only time either of these teams tanked is the Pens for Lemieux

 

having bad ownership and therefore a bad team is not the same as dropping a nuke onto your roster

Yup. Neither team went scorched earth on their roster. Chicago happened to have an owner that made OSP look irresponsible with money, but they never nuked the team. Pittsburgh, in fact had a damned near perfect group of vets for Sid and Gino to get schooled by on their first days.

 

Tanking is so, so different than what they did. The list of tanks is shorter and has less success in its history.

[Swedesessed]

Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know.

 

 

Agree. It's also not about tanking, its when you tank. The Sabres played it almost perfectly. After landing Eichel, one more tank would have made all the difference. That is where GMTM in my mind made his biggest mistake.

[Randall Flagg]

Agree. It's also not about tanking, its when you tank. The Sabres played it almost perfectly. After landing Eichel, one more tank would have made all the difference. That is where GMTM in my mind made his biggest mistake.

Adding Jesse Puljujarvi or Olli Juolevi instead of Nylander would not appreciably affect the long-term outlook of the franchise. 

 

And our Matthews chances would have been 20% assuming we'd finish at the bottom, which is not a guarantee at all. They more likely would have been under 15% even if we had wanted to lose on purpose.

[Swedesessed]

Adding Jesse Puljujarvi or Olli Juolevi instead of Nylander would not appreciably affect the long-term outlook of the franchise. 

 

And our Matthews chances would have been 20% assuming we'd finish at the bottom, which is not a guarantee at all. They more likely would have been under 15% even if we had wanted to lose on purpose.

 

That's true, we never benefit from such lotteries :wallbash:

[nfreeman]

Adding Jesse Puljujarvi or Olli Juolevi instead of Nylander would not appreciably affect the long-term outlook of the franchise. 

 

And our Matthews chances would have been 20% assuming we'd finish at the bottom, which is not a guarantee at all. They more likely would have been under 15% even if we had wanted to lose on purpose.

That's true, we never benefit from such lotteries :wallbash:

 

No team that tanks "benefits" from a situation in which it is 80% likely that it will NOT get the prize.  This is the point, and one of several important reasons why it was an idiotic plan.

 

Having said that, I did not intend to reopen the tanking discussion, which I think has been well and thoroughly aired multiple times.  I just couldn't let Robvy's assertion pass unremarked on, especially with the irrefutable contrary evidence staring us in the face year after dreary year.

[Randall Flagg]

That's true, we never benefit from such lotteries :wallbash:

It's not that WE never benefit from lotteries, in fact, the last two could have knocked us back a lot further than they did. 

 

When you put all your chips on a 20% chance, you're always going to feel "slighted" and like the world is against you. 

[North Buffalo]

When do think we start seeing trades start up? Are Kane or Hoffman the two that break the ice or will we see some lower end trades ahead of time or some unkown blockbuster???

Edited January 25, 2018 by Kottbullar

[LGR4GM]

When do think we start seeing trades start up? Are Kane or Hoffman the two that break the ice or will we see some lower end trades ahead of time or some unkown blockbuster???

I think there is a roster freeze during the all star break but I would assume after that freeze. A lot GM's will be in town for the all star game or will have the time to talk to eachother. 

[Brawndo]

When do think we start seeing trades start up? Are Kane or Hoffman the two that break the ice or will we see some lower end trades ahead of time or some unkown blockbuster???

  

I think there is a roster freeze during the all star break but I would assume after that freeze. A lot GM's will be in town for the all star game or will have the time to talk to eachother.

 

Plus there are teams in the middle trying to figure out what do as the trade deadline approaches, the more that decide to be buyers the increased demand there will be

This is a great talking point.

There’s no doubt current play has an effect, but I doubt GM takes on a player’s value swings as wildly as fan takes do.

This is what I’m betting on, coupled with the fact that Reinhart started the season playing a position he had not played in the NHL before with two AHL Wingers

[sweetlou]

Trade ideas looking to next year.  Some before the deadline and some during the off season.

 

Still like Kane, and D (either Gorges, Tennyson, or Beaulieu) to Anaheim for Montour, 2018 3rd rd pick, and 2019 conditional pick, (first if Anaheim reaches conference finals or they resign Kane, if neither of those happen then it is a 2nd rd 2019 pick.)

 

Lehner- somewhere for a 3rd rd pick.

 

Reinhart and 2018 3rd rd pick to Ottawa for Hoffman.

 

ROR to San Jose for Couture.

 

 

Next years lineup-

 

Couture- Eichel- Okposo

Hoffman- Middlestat- Pomminstein

Pu- Grisgensons- Fasching

Larsson- Rodrigues- Bailey

 

Scandella- Risto

Guhle- Montour

McCabe- Bogosian

 

Ulmark

xxxxx

Edited January 25, 2018 by sweetlou

[North Buffalo]

Always forget about Pu but think Oloffson will be up next year. Plus you are forgetting about Dahlin or no 1 winger

[Tondas]

When do think we start seeing trades start up? Are Kane or Hoffman the two that break the ice or will we see some lower end trades ahead of time or some unkown blockbuster???

 

At this point in the season, I think JBOTT is taking a big risk in not pulling the trigger on Kane.  All it takes is one shot from the point to break Kane's foot and the team gets nothing.  I'd rather JBOTT get what he can than nothing.  Why can't JBOTT create his own trade deadline for Kane.  He could tell all GMs today that at noon on Feb 1, he is trading Kane for the best offer.  Then take the best offer.  True, a star player on another team could break a foot as easily as Kane after Feb 1, and that would have potentially raised Kane's value, but the risk isn't worth it IMO.  JBOTT may be getting too cute for the teams own good.

[Crusader1969]

More from TSN

Kyrou, 19, becomes the first player in recent memory to join the board as a prospect. He has been on fire for the Sarnia Sting after helping Team Canada to gold at the World Junior Hockey Championship earlier this month in Buffalo.
Kyrou collected 11 points in just three contests last week for OHL Sarnia as the Sting halted Sault Ste. Marie’s points streak at 29 games. He has 23 goals and 73 points in just 35 OHL games this season.
So, why would the Blues want to move a blossoming 35th overall pick?
Well, the short answer is, they don’t. But in order to get, you must give. The Blues are in the market for an impact winger ahead of the Feb. 26 trade deadline. If they were to pursue a player like Buffalo’s Evander Kane, who remains No. 1 on the board and a potential strong fit, it’s possible that Kyrou could be part of some sort of package to make that happen.
Plus, the Blues’ three first-round picks from 2016 and 2017 – Tage Thompson, Robert Thomas and Klim Kostin – all play centre. Thompson, 20, has five points in 19 games for the Blues this season.
The arms race is on in the Central Division.


Kane remains at Number 1 Samson is 25, Lehner is 28.

 

 

awesome! i basically posted the same thing a couple of nights ago. kyrou should be the Sabres #1 target for Kane.  The competition for him will be high though, may have to give up getting a 1st rounder plus Kyrou. Maybe Kyrou, a guy the Blues want to dump from Current roster, and a conditional pick if Kane signs with them or if the win the cup.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Crusader1969

[LGR4GM]

Cliff Pu will not be a Sabre in 2018.

[Tondas]

Trade ideas looking to next year.  Some before the deadline and some during the off season.

 

Still like Kane, and D (either Gorges, Tennyson, or Beaulieu) to Anaheim for Montour, 2018 3rd rd pick, and 2019 conditional pick, (first if Anaheim reaches conference finals or they resign Kane, if neither of those happen then it is a 2nd rd 2019 pick.)

 

Lehner- somewhere for a 3rd rd pick.

 

Reinhart and 2018 3rd rd pick to Ottawa for Hoffman.

 

ROR to San Jose for Couture.

 

 

Next years lineup-

 

Couture- Eichel- Okposo

Hoffman- Middlestat- Pomminstein

Pu- Grisgensons- Fasching

Larsson- Rodrigues- Bailey

 

Scandella- Risto

Guhle- Montour

McCabe- Bogosian

 

Ulmark

xxxxx

 

I like your thinking but I think the new philosophy is to give the newbies at least 1 year in the AHL even though they may be ready (e.g. Guhle).  So Middlestadt and Pu are probably not on the team.

[Crusader1969]

Someone let the Blackhawks and Penguins know.

 

 

i always laugh when people think Tanking is a terrible idea. Do they not know who won 7 of the last 10 cups? you could even argue  the Kings bottomed out too.

[Brawndo]

Cliff Pu will not be a Sabre in 2018.

 

Pu and Olofsson both will be in Rochester next year.

 

Olofsson will need some time to adjust to North American Ice

[Weave]

i always laugh when people think Tanking is a terrible idea. Do they not know who won 7 of the last 10 cups? you could even argue the Kings bottomed out too.

Fake news.

 

Pittsburgh won a lottery seeded based on combined ave of previous 3 (I think) seasons. And had a locker room full of big name vets.

[Crusader1969]

Fake news.

 

Pittsburgh won a lottery seeded based on combined ave of previous 3 (I think) seasons. And had a locker room full of big name vets.

 

yes. they sucked for the 3 previous years prior.

 

Whitney 2002  drafted 5th overall

Fluery 2003 Drafted 1st

Malkin 2004  2nd overall

 

2005 won a lottery.

 

as for big name vets:

 

Top Vets:

  

Point leaders 2003-04

 

Dick Tarnstrom 52pts

Alexei Morzov  50pts

 

the goalie they put out there for 40 games had a save % of .883

 

Mario Lemieux did play 10 games for them though.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Crusader1969

[Drunkard]

Fake news.

 

Pittsburgh won a lottery seeded based on combined ave of previous 3 (I think) seasons. And had a locker room full of big name vets.

 

It's true. They had a string of teams to stock pile top picks around Crosby though. Fluery was a #1 overall, Malkin was a #2 overall, and I can't remember but I think they had at least one more really high pick besides Crosby.

 

I think people get too hung up over on the entire tanking vs being a bad team. The result is the same (bottom of the standings and a high pick). Whether they got there on purpose of merely by mismanagement is kind of irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that most of the teams who have won the Cup in the last few decades used really high picks to help them get over the hump. In the last 20 years the only teams who won without them were Detroit, Anaheim, and Boston (they had Seguin, but he wasn't exactly instrumental to their cup run).

[nfreeman]

Pu and Olofsson both will be in Rochester next year.

 

Olofsson will need some time to adjust to North American Ice

 

Right on.  Especially given JBott's stated preference to let prospects learn the ropes in the AHL, it's highly unlikely that Pu, Olofsson, next year's #1 or Casey for that matter will be on the Sabres.

[Lanny]

It's true. They had a string of ###### teams to stock pile top picks around Crosby though. Fluery was a #1 overall, Malkin was a #2 overall, and I can't remember but I think they had at least one more really high pick besides Crosby.

Staal, and Whitney before Fluery

Edited January 25, 2018 by Lanny

[Drunkard]

Staal, and Whitney before Fluery

 

Thanks. The team was littered with high picks, even if they didn't "tank" to get them.

[Weave]

It's true. They had a string of ###### teams to stock pile top picks around Crosby though. Fluery was a #1 overall, Malkin was a #2 overall, and I can't remember but I think they had at least one more really high pick besides Crosby.

 

I think people get too hung up over on the entire tanking vs being a bad team. The result is the same (bottom of the standings and a high pick). Whether they got there on purpose of merely by mismanagement is kind of irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that most of the teams who have won the Cup in the last few decades used really high picks to help them get over the hump. In the last 20 years the only teams who won without them were Detroit, Anaheim, and Boston (they had Seguin, but he wasn't exactly instrumental to their cup run).

 

Except it is not the same, Pittsburgh didn't have a depleted team when Crosby showed up.  They were not a good team, but they didn't have a bunch of AAAA and castoffs that were hired to make the NHL salary floor.  There was a base of players that led and taught.

yes. they sucked for the 3 previous years prior.

 

Whitney 2002  drafted 5th overall

Fluery 2003 Drafted 1st

Malkin 2004  2nd overall

 

2005 won a lottery.

 

as for big name vets:

 

Top Vets:

  

Point leaders 2003-04

 

Dick Tarnstrom 52pts

Alexei Morzov  50pts

 

the goalie they put out there for 40 games had a save % of .883

 

Mario Lemieux did play 10 games for them though.

 

Vets on the team Sidney's rookie year:

Gonchar

Leclair

Lemieux

Malone

Orpik

Palffy

Recchi

Scuderi

Tarnstrom

 

Compare that to teams one offseason out of a tank. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by We've

[Taro T]

Except it is not the same, Pittsburgh didn't have a depleted team when Crosby showed up. They were not a good team, but they didn't have a bunch of AAAA and castoffs that were hired to make the NHL salary floor. There was a base of players that led and taught.

 

 

Vets on the team Sidney's rookie year:

Gonchar

Leclair

Lemieux

Malone

Orpik

Palffy

Recchi

Scuderi

Tarnstrom

 

Compare that to teams one offseason out of a tank.

 

Some of those vets were signed AFTER Crosby was drafted. Gonchar definitely fits that bill. Don't have the inclination to figure out who else came after Syd.

 

[EDIT] Decided to go back & look. Recchi was signed right before the lockout. He & LeClair were in Filly the previous season.

 

Lemieux only played 10 games in '03-'04.

 

Palffy brought in after Crosby.

 

Scuderi was essentially a rookie as he'd only played 13 games in '03-'04. Malone had been a rookie in '03-'04 also.

 

Tarnstrom & Orpik were the only 2 vets that were actually playing for the Pens before the lockout. A Pens team that had 58 points in '03-'04. And only 69 & 65 points the 2 prior years. They were 29th overall in both '03 & '04.

 

Take away the opportunity to play w/ (a expectedly healthy) Lemieux & Crosby & the unprecedented 1 time only ability to move freely between teams due to the rules for dumping contracts that1 season only & that Pens team would have looked a LOT more like the '15-'16 Sabres than they did.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Taro T