Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I completely disagree. Has Nashville ever tanked? Minnesota? San Jose? Anaheim? Boston? The Rangers? And yet those teams are good pretty much every year. Just because Pittsburgh caught lightning in a bottle doesn't mean everyone else either needs to duplicate that miracle or be consigned to mediocrity. Not to mention the Oil. That's right. they did not tank to get Wayne and Mark and Paul ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) I completely disagree. Has Nashville ever tanked? Minnesota? San Jose? Anaheim? Boston? The Rangers? And yet those teams are good pretty much every year. Just because Pittsburgh caught lightning in a bottle doesn't mean everyone else either needs to duplicate that miracle or be consigned to mediocrity. True full-season tanks, as defined by Liger, are incredibly rare. Who are the teams that have really tanked in the last 30 years? NJ and Pit did for Mario. Us and Zona did for McEichel. Toronto did for Matthews. That is all I've got. That accounts for 2 of the past 30 Stanley Cups. But we need to tank otherwise we're stuck in mediocrity forever. It's our only chance at the cup. Edited October 31, 2017 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Pretty sure Ottawa was accused of tanking one year. Can't even remember who it was for or if they succeeded. Somewhere during the era where they were last a bunch of years in a row back around the time they drafted Chara. Also I think Washington way way back. But we need to tank otherwise we're stuck in mediocrity forever. It's our only chance at the cup. You mean tank again? This year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 True full-season tanks, as defined by Liger, are incredibly rare. Who are the teams that have really tanked in the last 30 years? NJ and Pit did for Mario. Us and Zona did for McEichel. Toronto did for Matthews. That is all I've got. That accounts for 2 of the past 30 Stanley Cups. But we need to tank otherwise we're stuck in mediocrity forever. It's our only chance at the cup. Off the top of my head, other teams that tanked... Quebec - Lindros Ottawa - Daigle I went through this motion back when we announced ours, there were two or three more, but now when you google NHL teams that tanked you get pages of Sabres and Leafs articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Nashville? perennial choke team boosted by having a great goalie until last year when they emerged due to the Subbhan deal and the emergence of their D as a whole - (a D coached by Housley). Minnesota? Never gets over the hump. Boosted themselves with a big free agent double signing but a team in cap hell with no chance of winning it all. San Jose? One of the biggest choke teams in the history of hockey. Anaheim? Big physical team that always competes but hard for them to win it all in this league now. led by Getzlaf, Perry and Kessler which is how different from Eichel, Kane and ROR? Boston? We beat them :) Total overhaul happening due to cap issues and a change in philosophy to fit the new style of the league. Yup, that's a well run organization. Rangers? Another great goalie but their time may be over. Not looking good this year at all. L.A. is a team you might want to look at for success. Ottawa and Calgary are underdogs who have done some good quiet drafting. Tampa. the thing about Pittsburgh is the league changed right at the right time for them. half a dozen or so years ago Kessel was deemed a floater, too soft, now he's a star again. He didn't change, the league did. LA and Boston smashed their way to cups and Crosby was mugged by Giroux. None of that holds any more. I'm starting to ramble, sorry. It all comes down to how well you draft. We didn't. We suffer as a result. You know, thinking about it the other way, the futility teams, only Phoenix has arguably been as bad as us in terms of building and improving after a bad season. Edmonton, Winnipeg, others have had years of futility but I'd say we are definitely in the running for worst team in the league over the last decade. You are indeed rambling. I have no idea what your point is. I do, however, completely disagree with your dismissal of those teams. Nashville has made the playoffs 10 out of the last 13 years and has advanced 4 out of the last 7, including the SCF last year. They sell out every game, have a raucous crowd and are an extremely well-run franchise that looks like it's going to be good for a long time. Minnesota has made the playoffs each of the last 5 years, had 2 100-pt seasons in the last 3 years and will almost certainly make the playoffs again this year. SJ has made the playoffs SEVENTEEN OUT OF THE LAST FREAKING NINETEEN years. They advanced in 10 of those seasons, including the SCF the year before last. Boston has made the playoffs 8 out of the last 10 years, advancing in 5 of the last 9, including a cup and another visit to the Finals. I'm not going to bother checking the others, but suffice it to say that we'd all be thrilled with the level of accomplishment of any of them. The way to win a Cup is to be in the hunt every year -- not to try to win a longshot lottery. But I suspect you knew that already. You mean tank again? This year? He was being sarcastic you hoser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Not arguing your point Freeman, but I wanted to point out that most of the first 40 years of the Sabres existence were very similar to the recent years of Nashville, Minnesota and San Jose. One of the cases for the tank was that it was the way to break the cycle of being an always good, never great also-ran. Now that’s a status many would welcome for a few years. Edited October 31, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not arguing your point Freeman, but I wanted to point out that most of the first 40 years of the Sabres existence were very similar to the recent years of Nashville, Minnesota and San Jose. One of the cases for the tank was that it was the way to break the cycle of being an always good, never great also-ran. Now that’s a status many would welcome for a few years. TRUST THE SYSTEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not arguing your point Freeman, but I wanted to point out that most of the first 40 years of the Sabres existence were very similar to the recent years of Nashville, Minnesota and San Jose. One of the cases for the tank was that it was the way to break the cycle of being an always good, never great also-ran. Now that’s a status many would welcome for a few years. True, but that doesn't mean it was a well-thought-out case. One of the cases for buying lottery tickets is that it's an easy way to get rich quick. Except that what it really is is a tax on stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Off the top of my head, other teams that tanked... Quebec - Lindros Ottawa - Daigle I went through this motion back when we announced ours, there were two or three more, but now when you google NHL teams that tanked you get pages of Sabres and Leafs articles. We're we the only team to do it for two years? Two. Gawd. Dammn. Years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 We're we the only team to do it for two years? Two. Gawd. Dammn. Years! I think it was one tank. He started the year before but it was all about McDavid from the get go. This was the problem with Murray, the entire plan was just get McDavid and nothing else really. Well not much else anyway. He didn't build an organization from the bottom up, didn't instill a culture, an attitude. It was all just get the "generational player" and we'll be good for a generation. About the before post, ya, it rambled. My point was only that many of those teams albeit better than us have also disappointed their fans frequently. BUT a team like San Jose, despite being a choke team, is a perfect example of how we fail. They have always found players with lower picks and undrafted gems. That's how they stay competitive, good drafting/scouting. If you don't have that, the rest don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Off the top of my head, other teams that tanked... Quebec - Lindros Ottawa - Daigle I went through this motion back when we announced ours, there were two or three more, but now when you google NHL teams that tanked you get pages of Sabres and Leafs articles. Note that drafting Lindros worked out great for the team.... they traded one player for the entire future of the Philadelphia Flyers and ended up with a couple of Cups in the aftermath (in Colorado.... sorry, city of Quebec). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Note that drafting Lindros worked out great for the team.... they traded one player for the entire future of the Philadelphia Flyers and ended up with a couple of Cups in the aftermath (in Colorado.... sorry, city of Quebec). Russ Farwell was XGMTM before it was cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 People expected Forsberg to be good, but nobody knew he'd become the warrior that he was. Daigle - ya, that was a bust and a half. Remember that one to feel better next time Eichel has a bad game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) I'm not going to call it a straight up tank, but: The 2003–04 season was an ordeal with Lemieux missing all but 24 regular season games with a hip injury, and attendance dipping to an average of 11,877 (the lowest average out of any NHL team), with just one sellout.[13] As the season progressed, the Penguins signed new head coach (and former Penguins player and commentator) Eddie Olczyk, traded Martin Straka to the Los Angeles Kings and opted not to include the highly rated Fleury in the lineup for the bulk of the 2003–04 season. This culminated in the worst record in the NHL, as they won just 23 games. As in the 1980s, the Penguins' struggles were fortuitously concurrent with a string of NHL Entry Draft classes that would yield multiple world-class talents. The pens lost the 2004 lottery to Washington and got Malkin, and due to the lockout went into the lottery with the same odds and won Crosby. The also picked #1 overall in 2003 (Fluery). Edited November 2, 2017 by MattPie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) Here is a problem. The Sabres have already dressed 10 different defenders in 13 games. These guys have zero goals and only 15 assists. Wow! That is terrible by any standard. This list will grow by at least 2 more when Bogo finally plays and Guhle gets recalled. Who knows how many more we’ll see by year end. We used, for an entire season, 12 D in 2013-14, 12 in 2014-15, 10 in 2015-16 and 12 last year. To put it in perspective on how inept our D group is, there are 12 individual D in the NHL with 10 pts or more on their own. The Ghost and Pietrangelo have 13 pts each. Pietrangelo and two guys we should have drafted Montour and Sergachev are tied with 4 goals each. The D wizard Housley doesn’t seem to be making a positive impact on our D group yet! How long until Guhle gets a look? Kane for a D? Edited November 4, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPuckYourself Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) Our goaltending is awful, defense isn't helping much and the team speed looks pedestrian out there, maybe we need to shake up this lineup again with some speed. It's good to have skill but you need to pair that with some fast guys also. Edited November 4, 2017 by GoPuckYourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Our goaltending is awful, defense isn't helping much and the team speed looks pedestrian out there, maybe we need to shake up this lineup again with some speed. It's good to have skill but you need to pair that with some fast guys also. I think the goaltending issues are significantly affected by the D problems. The D and clearing the crease consistently, or getting the puck out of the zone (same issues as last year), but the new system seems to be allowing more odd man rushes. Combine all these factors and our goalies are in for a long season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) The pens lost the 2004 lottery to Washington and got Malkin, and due to the lockout went into the lottery with the same odds and won Crosby. The also picked #1 overall in 2003 (Fluery). So they couldn't have tanked for Crosby. The Sabres and Pens actually had the same chance at getting Crosby. Both teams had three balls in the lottery. The Pens' disgusting luck included: Losing the 2004 lottery and drafting Malkin second overall instead of Ovechkin first, which meant in the Crosby draft, they had the maximum three balls (you lost a ball for each time you were awarded the first overall pick in the previous four drafts); then they kept three balls in the Crosby lottery because although they drafted first overall in 2003, it was Florida that had been awarded the pick; then they won the Crosby lottery with a 6 point something chance of winning. Quite incredible. But don't fret. In a very deep draft, the Sabres plummeted to 13th and took Marek Zagrapan, a flaky, skating dessert. They did eventually end up with the fourth overall pick. Benoit Pouliot. Edited November 4, 2017 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 They were given Crosby in a rigged lottery to save the franchise from bankruptcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 They were given Crosby in a rigged lottery to save the franchise from bankruptcy This seems like fake news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 This seems like fake news.Correct. And great background info on the Pens’ lottery fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 This seems like fake news. And like all good fake news, it has irresistible appeal to some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 But don't fret. In a very deep draft, the Sabres plummeted to 13th and took Marek Zagrapan, a flaky, skating dessert. Although I laughed, I thought he was more of a sugary almond confection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Although I laughed, I thought he was more of a sugary almond confection. I google image-searched and saw flaky. I also saw not flaky. I went with flaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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