How to Fix the D Both Short and Long-term?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think most of us agree that we have 2/6th of a good defense group with Risto and McCabe.

All of us hope that Guhle can join the Sabres at worst the year after next and make an impact and give us the third piece of a championship D group. However to ask a 20 year old to save our terrible D group is asking to much.

The truth is we need a replacement for the player GMTM hoped Bogosian would be or better. I've advocated for getting one of Ana's surplus of defenders. Other's have wanted Ghost from Philly and Hamilton from Cgy.

What do you think we need to do?

Edited March 9, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

Murray gets flak for many things, but in my view the only serious miscalculation he has made was acquiring Bogosian to lead our second pair. Is it possible to find a way resurrect his game? He wasn't always this bad and that contract is an anchor.

 

Kulikov was worth a swing. Could have never predicted that injury and what it has done.

 

We need to acquire assets from our UFAs at the deadline that we can parlay into a top four or emerging player some team is going to need to move because of the cap/expansion. I would be dangling our top pick (which should be top 10).

 

I like Guhle, but I think it would be a mistake to think he is going to be better next year than Franson is this year. He's not the solution yet.

Edited February 11, 2017 by dudacek

[Eleven]

I think most of us agree that we have 2/6th of a good defense group with Risto and McCabe.

All of us hope that Guhle can join the Sabres at worst the year after next and make an impact and give us the third piece of a championship D group. However to ask a 20 year old to save our terrible D group is asking to much.

The truth is we need a replacement for the player GMTM hoped Bogosian would be or better. I've advocated for getting one of Ana's surplus of defenders. Other's have wanted Ghost from Philly and Hamilton from Cgy.

What do you think we need to do?

I don't agree. I think Bogo is criminally underrated and I think the Sabres have an ok third pair, no matter who is back there. Really, I want to see Bogo with a better partner. I think they are 4/6 of the way there. Add a bettter partner for Bogo, put Gorges and Fedun or whoever on the third pair, and it doesn't look so bad.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't agree. I think Bogo is criminally underrated and I think the Sabres have an ok third pair, no matter who is back there. Really, I want to see Bogo with a better partner. I think they are 4/6 of the way there. Add a bettter partner for Bogo, put Gorges and Fedun or whoever on the third pair, and it doesn't look so bad.

 Underrated how?  He has been injured each of his 2+ years here.  Missing about 50-60 games.  His offense contribution, for a "speedy puck mover"  has declined to 1g, 4a for 5 pts in 30 games this season.  He is -31 in only 115 games and his possession numbers are mediocre at best.  DD has reduced his ice time even when healthy.  

[inkman]

Underrated how? He has been injured each of his 2+ years here. Missing about 50-60 games. His offense contribution, for a "speedy puck mover" has declined to 1g, 4a for 5 pts in 30 games this season. He is -31 in only 115 games and his possession numbers are mediocre at best. DD has reduced his ice time even when healthy.

Did you just refer to Zack Bogosian as a speedy puck mover?

[Scottysabres]

Did you just refer to Zack Bogosian as a speedy puck mover?

Well, he does tend to get it to the opponents sticks in an expeditious manner

 

:P

[Doohickie]

Personally I think signing Falk and Fedun to shore up defensive depth was a masterstroke.  Not top 4 guys, but they've been leaned on heavily and haven't broken.

[Taro T]

Short term, don't see much that can be done other than improving the coaching.

 

LT, Ristolainen is top pairing & McCabe is at minimum a 4, most likely a 3 and can be a serviceable 2.

 

I'd still like to see Kulikov back next year expecting that when healthy (& he's been healthy throughout his career until the freak injury) he's top 4 material. Bogosian, when healthy & not paired w/ Gorges nor Kulikov, is a 2nd pairing guy. Won't be broken up if he's grabbed by Vegas, but won't hate having him back.

 

Hopefully Guhle is ready next year. If not, I trust Murray will have at least 2, if not 3 or 4, serviceable 3rd pairing guys.

 

I'd like to see them grab either some of Minny's or better yet Anaheim's surplus quality D but would prefer to see one of the young wingers not named Nylander & picks being the bulk of what goes out. (They'd better be getting Fowler if Kane is PART of the package.)

 

Next year & moving forward, don't see the top 6 being a liability like they were this year, though expect they're at least a season away from having the depth to cover for LT injury to Risto or Jake.

[Eleven]

Underrated how? He has been injured each of his 2+ years here. Missing about 50-60 games. His offense contribution, for a "speedy puck mover" has declined to 1g, 4a for 5 pts in 30 games this season. He is -31 in only 115 games and his possession numbers are mediocre at best. DD has reduced his ice time even when healthy.

 

I want Bogo to be Jim Schoenfeld and not Phil Housley.

 

Also, Just noticed you are from Marietta. You and Liger should link up!

Edited February 12, 2017 by Eleven

[GASabresIUFAN]

Did you just refer to Zack Bogosian as a speedy puck mover?

Yes, that was how he was described when drafted as a smooth skating high skill D with a physical game.

 

I want Bogo to be Jim Schoenfeld and not Phil Housley.

Also, Just noticed you are from Marietta. You and Liger should link up!

I'd love for him to be Schoeny, but we aren't even getting Uwe Krupp.

 

Nice post Taro. I'd have no problem if we start the year with Gorges and Falk as our 6 and 7th D next year, but they are both lefties. We actually have 6 D signed for next year if Guhle makes the team, 4 lefties, (Guhle, and McCabe in addition) and Risto and Bogo on the right.

 

We need an actual right shooting speedy puck mover like Shattenkirk, not simply one described that way.

[JJFIVEOH]

I don't agree. I think Bogo is criminally underrated and I think the Sabres have an ok third pair, no matter who is back there. Really, I want to see Bogo with a better partner. I think they are 4/6 of the way there. Add a bettter partner for Bogo, put Gorges and Fedun or whoever on the third pair, and it doesn't look so bad.

 

I agree with you about Bogo. Defensemen have become given too much responsibility over the last few years with the changes in strategies, so in the rand scheme of things today's D-men rarely look perfect. I would venture to guess that every single team in th league isn't happy about some aspects of their D core. With that said, Bogo is better than people give him credit for and he would probably get top 4 minutes on almost all teams in the league. If the Sabres brought in a legitimate #2 D-man, fans would find something they don't like about him too. 

 

Re-sign Kulikov. He brings much more to the table than people think because he's been hurt all year. If there is a lack of depth, you don't let what you have get away, especially when is a young 2/3 guy............ and considering his injury this year could probably be had for cheap. 

[dudacek]

Kulikov is better than we've seen, but Bogosian has been here for two years.

 

Someone - True I think - described him to a T: 20 games of invisibility, 20 games of horribleness, 20 games where you say, see, he is a good player, and 20 games injured, and they usually come in blocks. That only 20 games of top four minutes. That's not good enough.

 

He wasn't that bad in Winnipeg. He'd miss games, but he was mostly average to good; he has all the tools, he should be a top four guy.

But he's not, at least not during his time inBuffalo.

Edited February 12, 2017 by dudacek

[Randall Flagg]

Bogosian, Kulikov, Franson are all guys that have a place getting moderate minutes on good defenses. But all three getting big minutes on the same team is a problem.

McCabe is still a developing young player, prone to gaffs, but I came into this season not convinced he'd ever be a top 6 regular and he's blown me away so far. Long term, ideally, he's playing with a similar talent on the second pair.

Long term, we need Guhle to grow exponentially to fill the void next to Risto, with the way defensemen are being hoarded. There's a large chance it doesn't work out that way. 

 

Risto is like 21. He won't be 25 for four more years. We'll see what happens with him. 

[Norcal]

Kulikov is better than we've seen, but Bogosian has been here for two years.

 

Someone - True I think - described him to a T: 20 games of invisibility, 20 games of horribleness, 20 games where you say, see, he is a good player, and 20 games injured, and they usually come in blocks. That only 20 games of top four minutes. That's not good enough.

 

He wasn't that bad in Winnipeg. He'd miss games, but he was mostly average to good; he has all the tools, he should be a top four guy.

But he's not, at least not during his time inBuffalo.

has he had the 20 game block of good yet this year? I 'm thinkin its coming up after he returns from injury ☺

 

What a tease his first game as a Sabre was. I think he had 11 hits, he was mean and aggressive and looked like a terror.

 

Now i'm left hoping that guy is the playoff Bogo when they get there.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Does anyone really still think that Bogo and Kulikov would be a good second pair and that they are criminally underrated? The only thing criminal is the over $9 mill they stole from the Sabres.

 

Now DD he is thinking on benching Kulikov. What took so long?

 

Frankly it's past time to bench Gorges, Bogo and Kulikov. Its time to let Falk play, bring up Nelson, waive Gorges. Maybe if we waive him, someone will take him and we'd save $4 mill.

[Eleven]

Does anyone really still think that Bogo and Kulikov would be a good second pair and that they are criminally underrated? The only thing criminal is the over $9 mill they stole from the Sabres.

Now DD he is thinking on benching Kulikov. What took so long?

Frankly it's past time to bench Gorges, Bogo and Kulikov. Its time to let Falk play, bring up Nelson, waive Gorges. Maybe if we waive him, someone will take him and we'd save $4 mill.

I think this board greatly underrates Bogo. Jury out n Kuli.

[darksabre]

I think this board greatly underrates Bogo. Jury out n Kuli.

I think we underrate him, and I'd still have Kulikov back. But I really need something to change somewhere in the D corps. We're just too slow to play the system DD wants to play. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I think this board greatly underrates Bogo. Jury out n Kuli.

How is he underrated? There is currently not a single, solitary thing he's doing well.

[Thorny]

How is he underrated? There is currently not a single, solitary thing he's doing well.

He's so bad. And makes so much money. I've already built myself into the walls of the Bogo Bunker.

[MattPie]

Short term? Like this season? Write it off, maybe bring up some kids and eval their progress. Sign a couple promising kids out of college if possible.

 

Kulikov will be fine, whether in Buffalo or someone else. See if he'll go for a 3 x ${something modest} to reprove himself. Bogo would probably be fine in a different system. Hopefully that different system will be in Buffalo by October.

[pi2000]

Murray gets flak for many things, but in my view the only serious miscalculation he has made was acquiring Bogosian to lead our second pair. Is it possible to find a way resurrect his game? He wasn't always this bad and that contract is an anchor.

 

My understanding is that WPG mandated we Bogo's contract off their hands as part of the Kane deal.   I don't believe GMTM was targeting him to lead the second pairing.

 

Bogo is fast when he gets up to speed, but his quickness, first step, and agility are on Gorges level and it gets him into a lot of bad situations against today's speedy forwards.   And his hockey IQ is off the charts... the bottom of the chart.  

 

Guhle will add speed/quickness, but I haven't seen enough of him to comment on his d-zone play.. same for Borgen.    Fitzgerald could Brian Campbell or Marc-Andre Gragnani.    He looked good at the wjc, seemed to have very good awareness and poise, but just haven't seen enough of him.    

 

That said, Chycrun is having a nice rookie season in PHX, he would've been my pick at the time over Nylander... based on need obviously.   IMO he could've helped this year... long term will Nylander be a better player?  Maybe, I hope so.

[GASabresIUFAN]

GMTM admitted today that the crappy blueline is on him.

 

He acquired Bogo, Kulikov, Franson and Gorges. Do we trust him to fix it?

[inkman]

GMTM admitted today that the crappy blueline is on him.

 

He acquired Bogo, Kulikov, Franson and Gorges. Do we trust him to fix it?

In GMTM I trust

[matter2003]

The trade of Cattenaci for Bodie should do it!!! Lol

[North Buffalo]

Keep Franson for his shot, assuming Bogo and Kuli are both working thru injuries... hope they heal this am and trade them next deadline... Sign Kuli to a two year low ball before draft and use him in trade. Draft a stud (Valimaki) and sign a healthy free agent.