How to Fix the D Both Short and Long-term?

[dudacek]

Unfortunately, "his game" was never very good in the first place. Better than now? Well, yea. But not good.

He has been a legit second-pairing guy more often than not in Winnipeg and looked like one when he first arrived here.

 

I'm letting you hang on to your expansion dream.

You let me hang on to mine.

Edited March 10, 2017 by dudacek

[JJFIVEOH]

He has been a legit second-pairing guy more often than not in Winnipeg and looked like one when he first arrived here.

 

I'm letting you hang on to your expansion dream.

You let me hang on to mine.

 

I think many fans have an overinflated view of what a 3/4 D-man should be. I agree with you, he's a legit 3/4 D-man. It's what most 3/4 D-men are around the league. 

[Thorny]

I think many fans have an overinflated view of what a 3/4 D-man should be. I agree with you, he's a legit 3/4 D-man. It's what most 3/4 D-men are around the league.

 

Frequently injured for long periods of time?

 

We can't just look at his play, which has been underwhelming. He also always misses a ton of games like clockwork.

[JJFIVEOH]

Frequently injured for long periods of time?

 

We can't just look at his play, which has been underwhelming. He also always misses a ton of games like clockwork.

 

I understand that's a problem. But, it's the risk you take when you have physical players, and you can't have an entire team made up of soft players. It's why depth is key. 

[WildCard]

I understand that's a problem. But, it's the risk you take when you have physical players, and you can't have an entire team made up of soft players. It's why depth is key. 

You can get better physical players, both in general and more physically effective than Bogosian, for cheaper than $5M

[TrueBlueGED]

I understand that's a problem. But, it's the risk you take when you have physical players, and you can't have an entire team made up of soft players. It's why depth is key. 

 

Bogo is not a physical player. In fact, his physicality is nothing more than a legend of Kassian proportion. He's as strong in front of the net as Gragnani.

[WildCard]

Bogo is not a physical player. In fact, his physicality is nothing more than a legend of Kassian proportion. He's as strong in front of the net as Gragnani.

But, he hits people, sometimes

 

Ristolainen is a much, much more physical player than Bogosian

[GASabresIUFAN]

We have the worst D in the NHL and so far all the voters but me want to bring back both Franson and Kulikov.  LMAO.  No wonder this team isn't getting better.  I guess y'all think they'll play better once out from under the weight of their blotted contracts.

Edited March 10, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[SwampD]

We have the worst D in the NHL and so far all the voters but me want to bring back both Franson and Kulikov.  LMAO.  No wonder this team isn't getting better.  I guess y'all think they'll play better once out from under the weight of their blotted contracts.

:lol:

 

Yes. Our thoughts on Kuli and Franson are why the team isn't getting better.

[WildCard]

We have the worst D in the NHL and so far all the voters but me want to bring back both Franson and Kulikov. LMAO. No wonder this team isn't getting better. I guess y'all think they'll play better once out from under the weight of their blotted contracts.

I think they'll play better without this head of a head coach

[TrueBlueGED]

The only thing I want to know is who the four crazy people who want Gorges back are. I think even old man lover* Dudacek is ready to toss him overboard! :p

 

*Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[dudacek]

I've brought this name up before.

 

Ryan Murray didn't play tonight due to a lower body injury.

With expansion looming, he is currently the Jackets fifth defenceman.

I'm sure if push comes to shove, they'd protect him over Jack Johnson and behind Jones and Savard (Werenski is exempt)

That said, Johnson plays more and provides a physical element the rest of the top four lacks.

 

Murray's star has faded as his career has been disrupted by injuries, but he's a good skater and a poised, calm puck mover, with decent size.

He's easily a top four on our team and still has upside.

He's just 23 and is exactly what we need: a better, left-handed Mark Pysyk.

 

He could create some cap issues on his next contract if he's still on the third pair.

He makes just under three and is an RFA at the end of next year.

 

They don't have to move him, but he could be available for the right price.

Edited March 11, 2017 by dudacek

[JJFIVEOH]

We have the worst D in the NHL and so far all the voters but me want to bring back both Franson and Kulikov.  LMAO.  No wonder this team isn't getting better.  I guess y'all think they'll play better once out from under the weight of their blotted contracts.

 

Maybe because some of them have actually watched Kulikov in the past and have seen what he is capable of doing. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Maybe because some of them have actually watched Kulikov in the past and have seen what he is capable of doing. 

Or maybe they are blaming the coach for the team's problems and failing to recognize that the problem is the players not the coach. Or they are failing to realize that he is overpaid and overrated, and if they bring him back the results will be similar just the pay check less. 

 

Sometimes what is past is past and after injuries like he has suffered this season the odds are that he'll never be the same.  Take a look at Bogosian's track record in the seasons following his first significant injury.  He has never been the same and has never again played a full season.

 

Duda, as to Ryan Murray, I'm ok with him as well. There was a recent article from Anaheim in which they think Vatanen is Ana's 4th best D and it would be best to move him and his nearly 5 mill per season contract.  I'm ok with that to. However, Brodin and DeHaan really intrigue me.  Ultimately I'd much rather try one of these young vets then recycle failed players simply because they come cheap and are convenient to re-sign.  

 

What do you think of the Alzner idea?

Edited March 11, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

Murray's track record is that he'll pursue someone under 25 and I think that's what's best for the team.

 

You'd think Alzner would help, but he smells a little too much like Bogosian and Kulikov and Murray can't afford another high-priced mistake. On the surface he's a good fit, but not as our highest paid D, which a bidding war would make him.

I'm OK with a $4/4 but some team will pay a lot more.

 

This article does a good job of explaining why we should be cautious.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2017/1/11/future-free-agents-karl-alzner

Edited March 12, 2017 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/11/inside-sabres-d-lemma-kanes-year-granting-cals-wish/

 

Interesting that the TBN just brought up Alzner as well.  Considering what is on the UFA market, you could be right and a bidding war could ensue.  If Washington doesn't win this year, odds are the Alzner might also want to join a team closer to contending.  However, where he is a little different then Kulikov and Bogo is that he'll only be here to play defense.  IMHO Bogo and Kulikov were partially brought in to help drive offense as well.  I think he'd be a great stay at home partner for Risto, which would allow DD to utilize Risto in more the Hedman, Karlsson, Burns and Letang role of rover.  (By the way, this isn't my description, but a scout that was on the NHLnetwork radio yesterday.)  The said those four are basically given the freedom to rove between playing defense and being almost a 4th forward.  It was a very interesting description of their play.  All have the speed and IQ to make up for slight mistakes in the offensive zone.  I think Risto's skill set fits that role as well.  

 

 

I also I agree I'm not paying 6 for 6 for Alzner.  I like him and think he'd fit well here, but 6/6 gives no bang for the buck and is likely an albatross of a contract in 3-4 years.  I would go to 4.5 per for 5 years with decreasing salary.   

[TrueBlueGED]

Murray's track record is that he'll pursue someone under 25 and I think that's what's best for the team.

 

You'd think Alzner would help, but he smells a little too much like Bogosian and Kulikov and Murray can't afford another high-priced mistake. On the surface he's a good fit, but not as our highest paid D, which a bidding war would make him.

I'm OK with a $4/4 but some team will pay a lot more.

 

This article does a could job of explaining why we should be cautious.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2017/1/11/future-free-agents-karl-alzner

 

Karl Alzner is the absolute last thing this defense needs. The complete opposite of what we're missing.

I've brought this name up before.

 

Ryan Murray didn't play tonight due to a lower body injury.

With expansion looming, he is currently the Jackets fifth defenceman.

I'm sure if push comes to shove, they'd protect him over Jack Johnson and behind Jones and Savard (Werenski is exempt)

That said, Johnson plays more and provides a physical element the rest of the top four lacks.

 

Murray's star has faded as his career has been disrupted by injuries, but he's a good skater and a poised, calm puck mover, with decent size.

He's easily a top four on our team and still has upside.

He's just 23 and is exactly what we need: a better, left-handed Mark Pysyk.

 

He could create some cap issues on his next contract if he's still on the third pair.

He makes just under three and is an RFA at the end of next year.

 

They don't have to move him, but he could be available for the right price.

 

I don't know how you could be willing to give up anything of value given Murray's injury history (I swear I thought this before he lasted about 5 minutes tonight :lol: ). What do you think the right price is?

[dudacek]

Karl Alzner is the absolute last thing this defense needs. The complete opposite of what we're missing.

 

I don't know how you could be willing to give up anything of value given Murray's injury history (I swear I thought this before he lasted about 5 minutes tonight :lol: ). What do you think the right price is?

Ive thought about it, but I'm not sure what we've got that Columbus would want. I'm not really sure what Columbus needs; they're pretty balanced. A first line centre and cap relief are what comes to mind.

 

I wouldn't trade our soon to be top 10 pick for him and I doubt they would take just a high second. Reinhart cost picks 16 and 33, Hamilton cost picks 15, 45 and 52. Gudbranson cost a prospect and a second. Leddy cost Pokka, Anders Nilsson and TJ Brennan. I guess Pokka and Nilsson were considered prospects at the time.

 

I'd give up one of our young wingers and second, I guess?

That's also the price I'd like to pay for a Montour or a Theodore.

I know those guys still have the shiny new car smell that says nothing but upside to the Hockey's Future crowd, but Murray has already proven to be an NHL defenceman and is just a year or two older.

Edited March 12, 2017 by dudacek

[Drunkard]

The cap disappears once the playoffs start, correct? Is there any way we can we put Gorges on waivers near the very end of the season and some team would pick him up for insurance purposes for the playoffs? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part because of his NTC or because teams wouldn't pick him up due to his contract having an additional year.

 

I'd prefer to ditch the dead weight as much as possible. I'd like to get rid of Gorges and Franson and replace them with cheap replacements if true upgrades aren't available. I think Kulikov's injury is still nagging him and he was a solid player in Florida who should be able to regain that form. I'd take him back at a discount on a 1 or 2 year prove it type deal. We're stuck with Bogosian unless we leave him exposed and Vegas likes him more than Ennis or Girgensons or whomever we expose. McCabe and Ristolainen should be core pieces going forward. Kulikov could round out the top 4 with Bogosian if he heals and rebounds or we could split our best defenders and pair Kulikov with Ristolainen and put McCabe with Bogosian. The third pair could be had for cheap. Focus on giving younger guys a chance to develop with sheltered minutes or veterans with speed and passing even if they are prone to mistakes or have other holes in their game (no offense, weak positioning, bad stick work, etc.). Candidates include Guhle (hopefully he's ready), Falk, Fedun, Nelson, whomever else I'm forgetting and the bargain bin scrap him across the league.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just think about how much quicker our D could be without Franson and Gorges.

 

I also don't think Kulikov should be brought back (and he doesn't want to come back) but Dude posted th Alzner numbers and I went to see where Kulikov stacks up and he is a marginal 4 according to the stats. He was between 90 and 120 in the advanced stats over the last 3 seasons.

 

EDIT: Blue Jackets Murray out 4-6 after hand surgery. Injury suffered when he blocked a shot against the Sabres.

Edited March 13, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

Finally first step is being taken, assuming the Sabres actually sign KHLer Viktor Antipin.

 

Does this mean we are no longer interested (or they aren't interested in us) In college UFAs Brickley and Bayreuther?

[DirtDart]

Personally I think signing Falk and Fedun to shore up defensive depth was a masterstroke. Not top 4 guys, but they've been leaned on heavily and haven't broken.

I think they have been really good. A hell of a lot better than Franson, or Bogo. I know Franson has decent stats this year, but his mistakes are very noticeable. Edited March 14, 2017 by DirtDart

[Drunkard]

Finally first step is being taken, assuming the Sabres actually sign KHLer Viktor Antipin.

 

Does this mean we are no longer interested (or they aren't interested in us) In college UFAs Brickley and Bayreuther?

 

I hope not. We need to stock up on as many young, cheap dmen that we can, especially considering the big raises that are upcoming for Eichel and Reinhart, along with a possible extension for Kane. I'd love to see Rochester stocked up with steady dmen to the extend we can given contract limits. Then it should be that much easier to start moving out the guys who are overpaid for their contributions on the ice.

[Doohickie]

I think they have been really good. A hell of a lot better than Franson, or Bogo. I know Franson has decent stats this year, but his mistakes are very noticeable.

 

Falk and Fedun made their share of mistakes but I think expectations weren't too high to begin with, and Falk in particular seems to get on his horse and counteract any mistake he makes.  Also, Falk seems to use his size better than Myers ever did.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I hope not. We need to stock up on as many young, cheap dmen that we can, especially considering the big raises that are upcoming for Eichel and Reinhart, along with a possible extension for Kane. I'd love to see Rochester stocked up with steady dmen to the extend we can given contract limits. Then it should be that much easier to start moving out the guys who are overpaid for their contributions on the ice.

I agree. Baker says we are still in on Bayreuther. I haven't heard anything about Brickley or any other FA D.

 

EDIT: just saw a story the Brickley is returning to school for another year.

Edited March 14, 2017 by GASabresIUFAN