dudacek Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) If, after his rookie playoff run, Dryden faced 40+ shots more than a dozen times in his career, it would be shocking. (Perhaps that was the angle you were going for. If so, as Emily used to say, nevermind.) Lehner has faced more rubber in seven games than Ken Dryden would face in a month.And I have to stop using '70s references if even the other old guys don't get them. ???? Edited February 15, 2017 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 *unsustainable I'm also convinced ~10 of the saves he makes each game are off of chances that he generates himself through lack of puck control. He'd probably be playing a better all-around game even if his SV% was a little lower. Counter-intuitive, but that's what I'm seeing with my own two eyes. Sabres allowing .5621 shots per minute in net with Lehner, allowing .5671 shots per minute with Nilsson in net. Based on the incremental 10 shots Lehner is supposedly giving up per game due to rebound control, would you have expected this to be reversed, and much more so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Sabres allowing .5621 shots per minute in net with Lehner, allowing .5671 shots per minute with Nilsson in net. Based on the incremental 10 shots Lehner is supposedly giving up per game due to rebound control, would you have expected this to be reversed, and much more so? You can't really reverse something that isn't appreciably different. 33 v 34 shots per 60? There's nothing there. Either way, I'm not surprised that their shots faced totals look about the same. Most teams generate that level of shots regardless of where those shots come from. It's the way in which those shots come that needs to be broken out. I suspect Lehner would face a disproportionate number of shots from in close on second opportunities compared to Nilsson who I think sees more shots from the outside that don't lead to second opportunities. I don't have the data to support this, nor do I know where to find that data. It's just what I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 You can't really reverse something that isn't appreciably different. 33 v 34 shots per 60? There's nothing there. Either way, I'm not surprised that their shots faced totals look about the same. Most teams generate that level of shots regardless of where those shots come from. It's the way in which those shots come that needs to be broken out. I suspect Lehner would face a disproportionate number of shots from in close on second opportunities compared to Nilsson who I think sees more shots from the outside that don't lead to second opportunities. I don't have the data to support this, nor do I know where to find that data. It's just what I see. I agree, not much difference. To me, that's 'what's there', I was looking for a difference and there is none. Eyeball test matters so that's why I am trying to find data to validate. I see it differently than you but am open to another viewpoint with confirming data. I did see some analysis (although I don't know about the veracity of the underlying data) awhile back that said Lehner was below average in save % in the 'tougher save' areas and had a disproportionate number of shots taken from 'easier save' areas, but I can't find that right now. That would be contrary to your thinking on this topic. I need to find that link... However I did find some numbers on face-offs. With Lehner in net the Sabres have 0.3569 defensive zone face-offs per minute. With Nilsson it's 0.2865. That is quite a difference. That could be interpreted different ways though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 I agree, not much difference. To me, that's 'what's there', I was looking for a difference and there is none. Eyeball test matters so that's why I am trying to find data to validate. I see it differently than you but am open to another viewpoint with confirming data. I did see some analysis (although I don't know about the veracity of the underlying data) awhile back that said Lehner was below average in save % in the 'tougher save' areas and had a disproportionate number of shots taken from 'easier save' areas, but I can't find that right now. That would be contrary to your thinking on this topic. I need to find that link... However I did find some numbers on face-offs. With Lehner in net the Sabres have 0.3569 defensive zone face-offs per minute. With Nilsson it's 0.2865. That is quite a difference. That could be interpreted different ways though. I'd have to see those numbers in some kind of context, but they might be worth exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mphs mike Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Lehner has faced more rubber in seven games than Ken Dryden would face in a month. And I have to stop using '70s references if even the other old guys don't get them. I think I'd prefer Ken Dryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Lehner has faced more rubber in seven games than Ken Dryden would face in a month. And I have to stop using '70s references if even the other old guys don't get them. I think these references are too recent. Where is Howie Morenz? Elmer Lach? Eddie Shore? Old time hockey, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 I think these references are too recent. Where is Howie Morenz? Elmer Lach? Eddie Shore? Old time hockey, eh? Piss on Eddie Shore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 15, 2017 Report Share Posted February 15, 2017 Lehner has faced more rubber in seven games than Ken Dryden would face in a month. And I have to stop using '70s references if even the other old guys don't get them. Thus the "nevermind." ;) After my 1st sentence was already typed out realized you were probably going the other way. Just a LITTLE slow on the uptake. :doh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Can the thread title now be changed to "Lehner is a starter, until he's not again"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 What I like is that Lehner is already acting like a leader at his young age. This kid ain't scared to tell it like it is. He has the potential to be something special IMO. Want to see him with more than two good defenseman in front of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Saw it Tweetered: Physical skill sets of NHL goalies all fairly similar. The main difference between those who become reliable #1's (or better) is mental. Whether you can maintain a level, come to each game with a fresh and new focus, etc. Makes sense. Oh, the writer (Davis?) also added that Lehner's now shown he _can_ do it, now it's a question of whether he will, over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Can anyone tell me where to find stats on high danger saves and save percentage, or something similiar? I saw that it as part of Corsi stats but couldn't find any actual statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Can anyone tell me where to find stats on high danger saves and save percentage, or something similiar? I saw that it as part of Corsi stats but couldn't find any actual statistics. corsica.hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Shutout. The guy's been mostly good of late. Very good, even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think these references are too recent. Where is Howie Morenz? Elmer Lach? Eddie Shore? Old time hockey, eh? one word: gump worsley Can the thread title now be changed to "Lehner is a starter, until he's not again"? lol. rickshaw made the op then disappeared off the face of the earth. probably to hide his shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Looks like a starting goalie lately. Just saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 corsica.hockeythanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Looks like a starting goalie lately. Just saying! I've been a harsh Lehner critic and I have to say he's been solid of late. I like my crow batter-dipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Looks like a starting goalie lately. Just saying! I don't know. He's only tied for 3rd in save % in the NHL. Get into the top 2 and then we're talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Can we package him with Kane and trade him? Their values are high so this is the time to trade them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Can we package him with Kane and trade him? Their values are high so this is the time to trade them. That Eichel guy has pretty good value too, maybe we can get Zadorov back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 That Eichel guy has pretty good value too, maybe we can get Zadorov back. Need to start loading up on draft picks, prepare for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 one word: gump worsley lol. rickshaw made the op then disappeared off the face of the earth. probably to hide his shame Rick has been a very good poster through the years but hasn't posted here much lately. Quite certain there is no shame on his part for providing his take on the subject. He shouldn't be ashamed for/ of his post. Your take on your quoted post on the other hand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Trade Kulikov 4.33 aav, UFA, Lehner 2.23, RFA, Gorges 3.90 AAV (50% retained), 1 yr, Minnesota 2nd, Washington 3rd to Pittsburg for Maatta 4.083,333 aav, 5 yrs, Fluery 5.75 aav, 2 yrs and Pittsburg 1st. Keep Fluery exposed at expansion draft, protect Ullmark. We give them a fresh start at controlling net minder cost with a decent starter, and a defensive top 4 with a depth defender for both this seasons playoff run. We have the room to incur the 1.49 mil in added aav. I know Lehner won't be moved, but this deal looks close in value given the UFA status, depth positioning, Pittsburg cup run scenario and Expansion draft situation. That Pittsburg 1st could be used in another deal or pick it l. AMD if you notice, Kane is not involved....and this type of deal puts Ullmark in the spot light. Edited February 17, 2017 by Lucky E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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