Lehner vs. Nilsson - Looking Forward to Free Agency

[Doohickie]

Not to say I'm totally sold on either but this idea that we gave up a lot for Lehner. Go back and do history of lower first round picks and don't think it was that great a risk compared to who we may have picked at that spot.

 

I get tired of hearing this.  We gave up a draft pick for Lehner.  At this point, SO WHAT?  He's on the roster, and any speculation about whom the Sabres may have chosen with that pick are irrelevant.  The fact that we traded a pick for him doesn't affect whether we should keep him either.  The price paid in the past has no bearing on future value.

[qwksndmonster]

I get tired of hearing this. We gave up a draft pick for Lehner. At this point, SO WHAT? He's on the roster, and any speculation about whom the Sabres may have chosen with that pick are irrelevant. The fact that we traded a pick for him doesn't affect whether we should keep him either. The price paid in the past has no bearing on future value.

Preach it!

[Huckleberry]

Murray took a costly risk to acquire Lehner, and i still think he believes in him. But, i don't think Murray is married to him because he spend a first round pick on him. Martin Biron over the summer mentioned on radio he heard Murray had inquired about Ben Bishop. So if Lehner struggles, i don't think it'll be long before Murray starts looking at other options.

 

That is just it, Lehner isn't struggling, he is doing fine, except maybe in SO, but that is something you can work on.

[inkman]

I get tired of hearing this. We gave up a draft pick for Lehner. At this point, SO WHAT? He's on the roster, and any speculation about whom the Sabres may have chosen with that pick are irrelevant. The fact that we traded a pick for him doesn't affect whether we should keep him either. The price paid in the past has no bearing on future value.

This can't be said enough.

[North Buffalo]

I get tired of hearing this.  We gave up a draft pick for Lehner.  At this point, SO WHAT?  He's on the roster, and any speculation about whom the Sabres may have chosen with that pick are irrelevant.  The fact that we traded a pick for him doesn't affect whether we should keep him either.  The price paid in the past has no bearing on future value.

True, now get Murray to deal.

[LTS]

Murray took a costly risk to acquire Lehner, and i still think he believes in him. But, i don't think Murray is married to him because he spend a first round pick on him. Martin Biron over the summer mentioned on radio he heard Murray had inquired about Ben Bishop. So if Lehner struggles, i don't think it'll be long before Murray starts looking at other options.

 

Is Bishop taller than the current Sabres goalies?  Murray probably wants to get the tallest goalie he can.  :)

[dudacek]

Am I the only one who thinks Bishop is woefully overrated?

He's just a big galoot, clumsy and leaky.

His success is mostly a product of the Lightning and the team that signs him to the big ticket will regret it.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Am I the only one who thinks Bishop is woefully overrated?

He's just a big galoot, clumsy and leaky.

His success is mostly a product of the Lightning and the team that signs him to the big ticket will regret it.

 

Awesome.

 

Nominated for the *word of the day*.

[darksabre]

Am I the only one who thinks Bishop is woefully overrated?

He's just a big galoot, clumsy and leaky.

His success is mostly a product of the Lightning and the team that signs him to the big ticket will regret it.

He's having a pretty bad year right now. I like him, but I've even dropped him from some fantasy teams. 

[Beer]

This is only my untrained eye test but I think the team plays better in front of Nilsson. Lehner, although much improved due to his off season workout routine, gives up some juicy rebounds. And as others have noted, he's not good in shootouts. I've often thought DD should sub Nilsson in OT so he can be our goalie if it goes to a shootout. Any rules against it?

[hsif]

What makes a team "play better" in front of one goalie vs. another? Honest question.

How does the goalie influence how the team will defend?

 

I've seen some goalies(usually not wearing a Sabres jersey) make some long first passes on offense, so I can see where that could be strategic...... but I'd think the team defends to minimize opponent offensive opportunities regardless of who's in net.

Edited December 8, 2016 by hsif

[ddaryl]

outside of shootouts I don't think Goal-tending is our highest concern

 

injuries and lack of goal scoring is

[Sabel79]

What makes a team "play better" in front of one goalie vs. another? Honest question.

How does the goalie influence how the team will defend?

 

I've seen some goalies(usually not wearing a Sabres jersey) make some long first passes on offense, so I can see where that could be strategic...... but I'd think the team defends to minimize opponent offensive opportunities regardless of who's in net.

I'll take you back to the Miller / Enroth days.  The team was absolutely more defensive and more aware when Jhonas was in net.  Quite noticeably so.   Probably indicative of the difference in confidence the team has in the guy behind them.

[darksabre]

What makes a team "play better" in front of one goalie vs. another? Honest question.

How does the goalie influence how the team will defend?

 

I've seen some goalies(usually not wearing a Sabres jersey) make some long first passes on offense, so I can see where that could be strategic...... but I'd think the team defends to minimize opponent offensive opportunities regardless of who's in net.

I think it affects how players respond when pressed on defense. If a team isn't confident that a goalie is going to swallow up shots, they'll collapse in closer to the net in order to cover up for the goaltender's rebounds. This means they can't pressure the opposing attackers as much, which gives them more room to operate. If you watched the Boston game the other night, you notice Boston is very confident in Rask, and as a result they played us reallytight in their end, running a big box, which pushed us to the outside. My perception is that this is happening with Nilsson as well. The players are worried about Lehner's rebounds, so they're not as aggressive in their own end. 

[dudacek]

I think it affects how players respond when pressed on defense. If a team isn't confident that a goalie is going to swallow up shots, they'll collapse in closer to the net in order to cover up for the goaltender's rebounds. This means they can't pressure the opposing attackers as much, which gives them more room to operate. If you watched the Boston game the other night, you notice Boston is very confident in Rask, and as a result they played us reallytight in their end, running a big box, which pushed us to the outside. My perception is that this is happening with Nilsson as well. The players are worried about Lehner's rebounds, so they're not as aggressive in their own end.

 

Interesting. Hadn't noticed this and I'll watch for it.

To me, Lehner's rebound issues have been less during zone time and more off the rush.

And they were more noticeable earlier in the year.

 

I honestly think the skaters have had lack of scoring so much in their heads that there has been no room for goalie issues to creep in.

Lehner's poor shootouts are the only issue. It's not like we've been dominating territorially and either goalie has been letting in backbreakers. Really, they and the third line are the only ones consistently performing up to expectations.

Edited December 8, 2016 by dudacek

[hsif]

I'll take you back to the Miller / Enroth days.  The team was absolutely more defensive and more aware when Jhonas was in net.  Quite noticeably so.   Probably indicative of the difference in confidence the team has in the guy behind them.

I can remember this for sure..... 

 

If you watched the Boston game the other night, you notice Boston is very confident in Rask, and as a result they played us reallytight in their end, running a big box, which pushed us to the outside. My perception is that this is happening with Nilsson as well. The players are worried about Lehner's rebounds, so they're not as aggressive in their own end. 

 

The other day in the Boston game I did notice how "active" Boston was in their defensive end, and didn't relate it to Rask at the time..... but it certainly makes sense.

 

I'm on board......

[pi2000]

I think it affects how players respond when pressed on defense. If a team isn't confident that a goalie is going to swallow up shots, they'll collapse in closer to the net in order to cover up for the goaltender's rebounds. This means they can't pressure the opposing attackers as much, which gives them more room to operate. If you watched the Boston game the other night, you notice Boston is very confident in Rask, and as a result they played us reallytight in their end, running a big box, which pushed us to the outside. My perception is that this is happening with Nilsson as well. The players are worried about Lehner's rebounds, so they're not as aggressive in their own end. 

 

I don't know about that... normally when you're not confident in your goalie you feel like you can't let the other team shoot, so your coverage is tighter in your zone.    Although I see your point about rebounds... if he's making the initial save but leaving pucks by the crease, then yeah you'll need to collapse.

[darksabre]

I don't know about that... normally when you're not confident in your goalie you feel like you can't let the other team shoot, so your coverage is tighter in your zone.    Although I see your point about rebounds... if he's making the initial save but leaving pucks by the crease, then yeah you'll need to collapse.

So you agree then? It's not that they don't trust him to make saves, it's that they don't trust him to control the puck after the save. 

This gets into the dynamics of game flow too. If you're collapsed too far to cover rebounds, your forwards aren't high enough in the zone to transition quickly, and you spend more time fighting to escape the zone, which reduces scoring. 

[pi2000]

So you agree then? It's not that they don't trust him to make saves, it's that they don't trust him to control the puck after the save. 

This gets into the dynamics of game flow too. If you're collapsed too far to cover rebounds, your forwards aren't high enough in the zone to transition quickly, and you spend more time fighting to escape the zone, which reduces scoring. 

 

I do agree, yes.    

[dudacek]

This gets into the dynamics of game flow too. If you're collapsed too far to cover rebounds, your forwards aren't high enough in the zone to transition quickly, and you spend more time fighting to escape the zone, which reduces scoring.

 

So again, Bylsma's fault?

[darksabre]

So again, Bylsma's fault?

It could certainly contribute.

[Rasmus_]

I'd rather have Colin White back :)

[dudacek]

I'd rather have Colin White back :)

Interesting that Casey Fitzgerald has been scoring almost as much as White on the same team

[GASabresIUFAN]

Why is Lehner so bad one on one?

[MattPie]

Why is Lehner so bad one on one?

 

Why just one-on-one? I think he's OK in normal game action, although I don't know how much of that is sheer size. One on one it doesn't look like he's mobile enough (or at least doesn't react fast enough) to stop well-executed shots and dekes. I'm hoping a GT coach can get his positional play, that might help.