Let the Fire Bylsma Watch begin

[Eleven]

Would we be better under Babcock?

 

Yep.

 

Why is it wrong? I was happy with the hire. I'm still happy with it. But then again, I'm not a chicken little sky is falling let's start over tank forever fan whenever we lose a game.

 

Because he's a coach who stifles talent and that was obvious when he was in Pittsburgh.

 

Stop putting a Billy Joel worm in my brain. I don't normally mind, but this lyric is from one of his weird early albums.

 

So what do we have here? Are you arguing that firing Lindy doomed the Sabres to terrible coaching for the rest of their existence? What if Lindy had survived here with continued so-so results? Would you have argued against going after Babcock? Was Babcock not "out there" and "better" than Lindy?

 

The whole thing's weird. I think even Lindy would be embarrassed by this kind of support. I think even he admitted how lucky he was to have coached in Buffalo for so long.

Aha! Thank you. (I know you mean instead of Dan, not instead of Lindy, but I'm glad someone else brought up his name.)

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up Lindy.  This has nothing to do with him.  I'm not saying you wanted Rolston or that you wanted Nolan or anybody else.  I'm saying you wanted THIS.  THIS is what you wanted.

[LGR4GM]

If you change the coach, and the team still sucks you know why. If you leave the coach that is just one more variable you aren't sure of

[North Buffalo]

Brought up Housley because as a player he knew how to move the puck... only reason. Actually liked the up and down wind sprints, more interesting then neutral zone trap skating in mud type hockey. Sabres just outclassed. They need to figure out how move the puck better... too much standing around on PPL especially v. the first game jack came back. Cant tell if its DD or its talent available but gotta think its a bit of both. Fedun's passing v Gorges is nite and day, hell even Franson is better at passing. Agree Sam needs to go back to center maybe on ROR line and put carrier with Eichel... little more moxie in the corners with speed given Eichel's injury... that is coaching 101. Moulson needs to be scratched and off 2nd powerplay unit. Im okay with dlo on 4th line, bring one of the kids up like Bailey and wreck havoc. Almost seems like coaches are scared to adjust team right now. Is that DD or TM? If TM then its a modified Tank season, he's just not saying it.

[PASabreFan]

Yep.

 

 

Because he's a ###### coach who stifles talent and that was obvious when he was in Pittsburgh.

 

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up Lindy.  This has nothing to do with him.  I'm not saying you wanted Rolston or that you wanted Nolan or anybody else.  I'm saying you wanted THIS.  THIS is what you wanted.

What is THIS? A crummy team? I was against Lindy and Darcy because the team was crummy long after Black Whatever Day of the Week That Was. I was for a housecleaning soon after the end of the 2010-2011 season, because the handwriting was on the proverbial wall as to how much crummier things were going to get. A new coach and GM could have come in and been in a good position to turn things around fairly quickly, cutting things smartly, then adding with Terry's open checkbook later. We could be reminiscing right now about that great playoff run last spring and looking forward to a Cup next spring. But here we are.

 

I am the definition of anti-crummy. I'm not sure I like where this is headed, but I'll ask again anyway. What is THIS that I wanted, if not Bylsma.

[Randall Flagg]

Firing a coach mid-season almost always leads to a temporary replacement, right? Is it because all of the up-and-coming guys coaching in the AHL and elsewhere want to/are forced by their organization to finish the season where they are first? When was the last time an AHL coach mid season was hired elsewhere? I might be wrong with this, but this is why I don't see or care for a mid-season firing.

 

Swamp likes to never address any hockey-related point that people who don't like Bylsma make, and then group them all together as whiny, impatient little children who think the sky is falling when they lose a game in a different thread later on. Stunning argument tactic.

[SwampD]

Firing a coach mid-season almost always leads to a temporary replacement, right? Is it because all of the up-and-coming guys coaching in the AHL and elsewhere want to/are forced by their organization to finish the season where they are first? When was the last time an AHL coach mid season was hired elsewhere? I might be wrong with this, but this is why I don't see or care for a mid-season firing.

 

Swamp likes to never address any hockey-related point that people who don't like Bylsma make, and then group them all together as whiny, impatient little children who think the sky is falling when they lose a game in a different thread later on. Stunning argument tactic.

I've argued hockey points before. They have fallen on deaf ears. I have also disagreed with some of the points others have made (including you) about Dan's hockey.

 

I just find it telling that the very people who were willing to throw away 2+ years of Tank, are the same who want Dan gone the fastest (an make a point of telling us over and over and over.) They just sound like spoiled brats who had this idea in their heads that all we had to do was suck, get talent, and then be good again.

 

It's like what is happening doesn't fit the fairy tale they've created in their heads so they have to find blame. Surprise, who knew that even after a Tank, it was going to take a full rebuild to get good again? I know who, all of us who don't panic every time we lose and realize this is where we are. Get over it, and to quote a great SS philosopher, "This is want you wanted."

 

It's not the coach,… yet.

Edited December 10, 2016 by SwampD

[Randall Flagg]

I've argued hockey points before. They have fallen on deaf ears. I have also disagreed with some of the points others have made (including you) about Dan's hockey.

 

I just find it telling that the very people who were willing to throw away 2+ years of Tank, are the same who want Dan gone the fastest (an make a point of telling us over and over and over.) They just sound like spoiled brats who had this idea in their heads that all we had to do was suck, get talent, and then be good again.

 

It's like what is happening doesn't fit the fairy tale they've created in their heads so they have to find blame. Surprise, who knew that even after a Tank, it was going to take a full rebuild to get good again? I know who, all of us who don't panic every time we lose and realize this is where we are. Get over it, and to quote a great SS philosopher, "This is want you wanted."

 

It's not the coach,… yet.

I know that your second point is general and not pointed directly at me, but I do admit to being pro-tank, and realizing that it was a mistake at some point last year. If this franchise does something like that again, I'm probably done.

 

So, you agree with Bylsma that the wide-open games we played in Ottawa and against New York (which occurred largely due to their transition-oriented style of play, there was no keeping up with them score-wise unless you also open up) is "not what we want to do." right? He said this after the game. Boston mucked us right down after that. That stuff is boring to you, and against the kind of hockey that wins games according to Dan. So, you guys prefer the stuff that was getting us an even strength goal every three game stretch, and carrying us to a .333 win percentage so far this season? Why? It's not winning any more than scoring goals did. Scoring goals beat that team whose talent level you are on record as saying, correctly, is leagues higher than ours.

 

Our power play is 3rd in the league. We have talented players who can score and yet sit with lineups that had Ennis as the lone guy over 20 goals and 33 points in historical scoring rankings, and it's not working to win. Somehow it has nothing to do with the way the team is coached, when neutral, defensive, and offensive zone strategies are directly implemented by said coach. Have you ever asked Pittsburgh fans what they don't like about Bylsma and why they think firing him was the best thing their team has done since they won their first cup of the Crosby era? Their list looks exactly like things we've outlined in the system thread and game-day threads, it's almost uncanny. Make an hfboards account and try it out. There's no cross-referencing, other people have seen exactly what we do for years. He's just not a good coach.

 

I'm not saying it would be best to fire him now, and I'm not saying I know anything about most other coaching candidates. But I don't know how you can blame a historically bad offense with 5 guys who scored 20 goals last year, including the second most talented prospect to enter the league since Crosby, an offense scoring less than the Ennis-Hodgson-Stafford led team, each of those guys being the only ones over 30 points in the forward group, on guys missing empty nets and being injured, as if that stuff didn't happen to any other team in the dregs with us. 

 

You call it fantasy land, I call it theories that are built up, added to, subtracted from, based on a continuous study of over 100 games coached for us. I've seen no real counterargument that addresses how bad we are at playing even strength. I've seen every team we play come in with better neutral zone puck support. I've seen it live, and on television. The difference is as stark as that between Nolan's no-system and Dan's. It has nothing to do with the talent of the players. Lappin, Smith-Pelley were doing it against us in New Jersey. The team is poorly-coached.

As an aside, if we ever do get good and make the playoffs while Dan is here, we'll get to see the thing that jumps above everything else on Penguins fans' reasons for getting rid of Bylsma - the refusal or inability to adjust in a playoff series, leading to several blown 3-1 series leads in the stretch of a couple years. 

 

Can't wait! 

[Kristian]

Two guys who wanted Bylsma back in the day, right here.

I hadn't a clue as to what to think of Bylsma, so are you sure you got right guy here? I honestly don't remember having any bias towards, nor against him?

 

Not saying I *didn't* want him, but if we're talking Cpt. Ron days, I'd have taken *you* as a head coach, so...

[Noacls]

They look like a totally different team when Lehner, Gorges, and Kulikov are not in the line up. Maybe it's the players not the coaches. Put those three on the bench, let the kids play, as in Guhle and even Burgdofer

[qwksndmonster]

Swamp, that's weak . Arguing that people are blinded by fairy tale expectations and need to blame SOMEONE (Bylsma) is not only itself a fairy tale, but insults the intellects of those that are actually watching the games and analyzing them rather than just being a contrarian.

 

And trying to tie it in with the Tanker/Anti tanker dichotomy is garbage.

[Thorny]

Even if they did want that, it's acceptable to recognize being wrong. I bring this up often because I was wrong about ROR. Seeing your (not you just ppl in general) error and moving past it is good.

Yup.

 

It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

 

This is what you wanted.

Aside from anything else, up to and including whether or not we need a coaching change or not, I take issue with the "this is what you wanted" argument. Surely, individuals have the right to change their opinion and reassess based on how things develop? I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I am one who liked the idea of Bylsma as a coach, and now find myself rather disillusioned with his style and the results. I'm not in "sky is falling" mode, but I still reserve the right to be disatisfied with how the team is playing and chalk up some of that to coaching strategy, whether the view is accurate or not.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Thorny

[JJFIVEOH]

I used to be a Goober cheerleader.

[inkman]

I used to be a Goober cheerleader.

I've always been a Raisinettes kinds guy

[TrueBlueGED]

I just find it telling that the very people who were willing to throw away 2+ years of Tank, are the same who want Dan gone the fastest (an make a point of telling us over and over and over.) They just sound like spoiled brats who had this idea in their heads that all we had to do was suck, get talent, and then be good again.

Thing is, this has nothing to do with speed. I was willing to flush away two full seasons because because that's what I thought was the best way to build a long term contender. I don't want Bylsma gone because I'm impatient, I want him gone because I don't think he's properly developing the team to be a consistent contender. Same reason I wanted the tank. Going into the season I thought this was a bubble team, so no, I don't think I've been living in a fantasy world where they'd be top of the league with a different coach. My complaints are based upon what I see as fundamental problems with Bylsma that will not simply vanish when the roster is better and more mature.

Edited December 10, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[JJFIVEOH]

I've always been a Raisinettes kinds guy

Hell Yeah!

[SwampD]

Swamp, that's weak ######. Arguing that people are blinded by fairy tale expectations and need to blame SOMEONE (Bylsma) is not only itself a fairy tale, but insults the intellects of those that are actually watching the games and analyzing them rather than just being a contrarian.

 

And trying to tie it in with the Tanker/Anti tanker dichotomy is garbage.

Thou doth protest too much,… methinks.

[SwampD]

Because he's a ###### coach who stifles talent and that was obvious when he was in Pittsburgh.

 

Don't know how I missed this.

 

Ah, the old Lindy held back Vanek defense.

 

:devil:

[qwksndmonster]

Thou doth protest too much,… methinks.

I bite my thumb at you, sir.

[Rasmus_]

It's a disappointing start, but would changing the coach do much to mix things up.  Eichel has made a difference so far.  It has a lot to do with the depth of defense and the lack of pure high end talent there.  We still could use replacements for Gorges, and Bogosian.  

[SwampD]

I bite my thumb at you, sir.

Awesome.

[matter2003]

Bylsma has us on pace to have 3-4 more points by the end of December than the historically bad 2014 team. If that's not a reason to be fired I'm not sure what is.

Edited December 13, 2016 by matter2003

[SwampD]

Everyone healthy (well, mostly) with the first game back out of the way. I'll start judging tonight.

[Jacque Richard]

Something gotta give then. I thought they would be able to score more than one goal a game.

[woods-racer]

They look like a totally different team when Lehner, Gorges, and Kulikov are not in the line up. Maybe it's the players not the coaches. Put those three on the bench, let the kids play, as in Guhle and even Burgdofer

Speed and puck handling skills on the back end change the whole dynamic of this team.

Thing is, this has nothing to do with speed. I was willing to flush away two full seasons because because that's what I thought was the best way to build a long term contender. I don't want Bylsma gone because I'm impatient, I want him gone because I don't think he's properly developing the team to be a consistent contender. Same reason I wanted the tank. Going into the season I thought this was a bubble team, so no, I don't think I've been living in a fantasy world where they'd be top of the league with a different coach. My complaints are based upon what I see as fundamental problems with Bylsma that will not simply vanish when the roster is better and more mature.

I agree with this and is my perspective also. I wish Blysma gone, not today, but over all-star break would be nice.

 

I am kinda partial to an up and coming coach that is coaching the Erie Otters.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Woods-Racer

[LGR4GM]

They look like a totally different team when Lehner, Gorges, and Kulikov are not in the line up. Maybe it's the players not the coaches. Put those three on the bench, let the kids play, as in Guhle and even Burgdofer

That is the most random assortment of players to single out as the issue. Gorges, I get because he is getting older and slower but the other two I don't. Kulikov hasn't played healthy for Buffalo once this season so bagging on him seems odd. Why should Kulikov be benched? 

 

Guhle literally cannot play in Buffalo on anything other than an injury emergency recall. He also shouldn't play in Buffalo until next season. 19yr old defenders shouldn't be full time NHL'ers. Let him develop normally. Don't ruin a kid by rushing him like Edmonton loves to.