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Let the Fire Bylsma Watch begin


matter2003

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On Gorges, from Travis Yost:

 

post-3647-0-47768300-1480348197_thumb.png

 

Some of this decline is surely due to going from the Habs to the Sabres, but I don't think that accounts for the whole shebang. Methinks there's been some very real decline in his on-ice capabilities.

 

Oh, and he's an anchor to Ristolainen (not that I blame Gorges for Bylsma's player usage). Obligatory small sample warning (they've been together for 258 ES minutes, Risto apart from Gorges for 91, and Gorges apart from Risto for 51):

 

                    CF%   CF60   CA60   GF%   GF60   GA60                                       

Together            40.5  43.6   64.1   35.7  1.16   2.09

Risto w/o Gorges    53.5  59.6   51.8   66.7  1.31   0.66

Gorges w/o Risto    34.7  38.9   73.0   33.3  1.18   2.36

 

Last season when I pulled up these numbers, Risto was better offensively without Gorges but suffered defensively. So far this year (and I stress so far), Risto has been worse with Gorges across the board. If the pairing remains together once Kulikov or Bogo is back, I may just lose my mind. I don't care if it's McCabe-Risto and Gorges-Bogosian or Kulikov-Risto and McCabe-Bogo (assuming one of our missing D returns before the other), GET GORGES AWAY FROM RISTO DAMMIT! 

Edited by TrueBlueGED
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On Gorges, from Travis Yost:

 

attachicon.gifgorges.png

 

Some of this decline is surely due to going from the Habs to the Sabres, but I don't think that accounts for the whole shebang. Methinks there's been some very real decline in his on-ice capabilities.

 

Oh, and he's an anchor to Ristolainen (not that I blame Gorges for Bylsma's player usage). Obligatory small sample warning (they've been together for 258 ES minutes, Risto apart from Gorges for 91, and Gorges apart from Risto for 51):

 

                    CF%   CF60   CA60   GF%   GF60   GA60                                       

Together            40.5  43.6   64.1   35.7  1.16   2.09

Risto w/o Gorges    53.5  59.6   51.8   66.7  1.31   0.66

Gorges w/o Risto    34.7  38.9   73.0   33.3  1.18   2.36

 

Last season when I pulled up these numbers, Risto was better offensively without Gorges but suffered defensively. So far this year (and I stress so far), Risto has been worse with Gorges across the board. If the pairing remains together once Kulikov or Bogo is back, I may just lose my mind. I don't care if it's McCabe-Risto and Gorges-Bogosian or Kulikov-Risto and McCabe-Bogo (assuming one of our missing D returns before the other), GET GORGES AWAY FROM RISTO DAMMIT! 

Excellent deep dive and detailed stats - thank you so much for this information.  Gorges and Risto clearly go together like oil and water.  

 

And still wondering if it's Bylsma's 'system' that's mostly responsible (so many other dynamics of course) for tanking Gorges' play ?  

 

 

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On Gorges, from Travis Yost:

 

attachicon.gifgorges.png

 

Some of this decline is surely due to going from the Habs to the Sabres, but I don't think that accounts for the whole shebang. Methinks there's been some very real decline in his on-ice capabilities.

 

Oh, and he's an anchor to Ristolainen (not that I blame Gorges for Bylsma's player usage). Obligatory small sample warning (they've been together for 258 ES minutes, Risto apart from Gorges for 91, and Gorges apart from Risto for 51):

 

                    CF%   CF60   CA60   GF%   GF60   GA60                                       

Together            40.5  43.6   64.1   35.7  1.16   2.09

Risto w/o Gorges    53.5  59.6   51.8   66.7  1.31   0.66

Gorges w/o Risto    34.7  38.9   73.0   33.3  1.18   2.36

 

Last season when I pulled up these numbers, Risto was better offensively without Gorges but suffered defensively. So far this year (and I stress so far), Risto has been worse with Gorges across the board. If the pairing remains together once Kulikov or Bogo is back, I may just lose my mind. I don't care if it's McCabe-Risto and Gorges-Bogosian or Kulikov-Risto and McCabe-Bogo (assuming one of our missing D returns before the other), GET GORGES AWAY FROM RISTO DAMMIT! 

TSN had an article about pulling down possession numbers, Gorges named popped up on their list. Ristolainen suffers an 11.7% drop in his CF% when on the ice with Gorges. 

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-who-brings-down-possession-1.619409

 

This all said I like Gorges. I think he is a solid stay at home defender and there isn't anything wrong with that. The issue is that type of player is, to an extent dying in the corsi driven NHL. Gorges is an interesting study because is he bad? or is he just not offensive oriented?

Edited by LGR4GM
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TSN had an article about pulling down possession numbers, Gorges named popped up on their list. Ristolainen suffers an 11.7% drop in his CF% when on the ice with Gorges.

http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-who-brings-down-possession-1.619409

 

This all said I like Gorges. I think he is a solid stay at home defender and there isn't anything wrong with that. The issue is that type of player is, to an extent dying in the corsi driven NHL. Gorges is an interesting study because is he bad? or is he just not offensive oriented?

I would argue that a player who cannot complete a basic hockey play, such as an unforced pass, is in fact simply a bad player. More broadly, I think way too often people will label a defenseman who is bad offensively as a "defensive defenseman" by default, without actually bother to analyze whether the individual actually brings defense value. Bad offense does not mean good defense, nor is the inverse of that inherently true, yet I think that's how the labels get thrown around.

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Not sure I believe he is. I just can't fathom how hard it is to coach your guys to give puck support and always have someone in front of the net. I think we fail at the very basics of hockey more often than a team with this talent should.

Edited by LGR4GM
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Is that the Florida guy?

 

Yeppers

I like Gerald Gallant but he's almost like a Ted Nolan in terms of coaching style. Can't imagine gmtm is looking for that kind of coach.

 

Two very different coaches. 

Edited by JJFIVEOH
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How so ?

You'd have to watch some of their games. They are one of the fastest teams in the league and Spuddy plays to the strengths of the roster. He does like to have enough physicality so that nobody can come in and push them around. He lost that in Gudbranson and Kulikov. Nolan never had a fast team to work with so I can't compare the two in that regard.

 

Not really sure what you mean by Murray not wanting a coach like Nolan.

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You'd have to watch some of their games. They are one of the fastest teams in the league and Spuddy plays to the strengths of the roster. He does like to have enough physicality so that nobody can come in and push them around. He lost that in Gudbranson and Kulikov. Nolan never had a fast team to work with so I can't compare the two in that regard.

 

Not really sure what you mean by Murray not wanting a coach like Nolan.

Gmtm is on the cutting edge with advanced stats and zone starts, old school hockey style. I just think Murray would prefer a hockey "nerd" to coach the team then the old school approach. Puck possession and all that.

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So Dan's definitely not on the hot seat.

Drury admired his pass, Neil took advantage with a borderline legal hit. Get over it already.

Bruce Garrioch quotes league sources to say Dan Bylsma is on the hot seat.

"Executives believe..."

 

http://www.ottawasun.com/2016/12/03/a-very-emotional-move-panthers-gm-hopes-coaching-shakeup-sparks-team?token=2e26bc1fefdfa147c35d49215785526a

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