Cam Fowler Trade Speculation Thread

[sabills]

Looking good in preseason is like looking good on a first date, everyone does. 

Clearly we have been on different first dates.

I wish Guhle could be called up from Juniors like AHLers can to the NHL because I'd love for him to get some more AHL time than a mere 3 or so games at the end.

 

 

Wouldn't mind him getting a couple NHL games this year aswell

I keep wondering if the rule will change eventually. Kids are just ready earlier than they used to be. I understand juniors not wanting to lose some of their magic, but at a certain point it can hurt or slow a guys development. The PA will probably push for this at some point. Shave a year off even and it would make a big difference. Maybe you could limit how many guys under the age of 20 that were junior eligible could be sent to the AHL per team or something.

Edited July 6, 2016 by sabills

[Sabel79]

Clearly we have been on different first dates.

I keep wondering if the rule will change eventually. Kids are just ready earlier than they used to be. I understand juniors not wanting to lose some of their magic, but at a certain point it can hurt or slow a guys development. The PA will probably push for this at some point. Shave a year off even and it would make a big difference. Maybe you could limit how many guys under the age of 20 that were junior eligible could be sent to the AHL per team or something.

I assure you it has nothing to do with the best interest of the kids, and everything to do with the best interests of the Junior teams and AHL veterans.

[Thorny]

I am now feeling okay with what we have. Not because of impatience but because I'm much more confident in McCabe's growth and Kulikov's overall ability (especially if he's with a skilled Risto or a rugged Bogo).

I think McCabe will be a top-four dman this year and long term. I think Kulikov is the same. Both are likely best as second-pairing dmen, but I think it's worth seeing Kulikov's growth if he gets top minutes. He was an all-situations defenseman in Florida and that was a damn good defensive team.

This is all with the caveat that Kulikov has to be in the long-term plans for me to feel confident.

It gives us:

Kulikov - Risto

McCabe - Bogo

Gorges - Franson

With Guhle fighting for Gorges' spot.

That's a very slow bottom pairing but it's pretty clear around the league that your bottom pairing isn't going to be jacked up.

If Vesey walks I probably prefer a deal for somebody like Rick Nash to add some definitive scoring.

I, too would be very interested in a Nash signing if we weren't able to get Vesey.

[sabills]

I assure you it has nothing to do with the best interest of the kids, and everything to do with the best interests of the Junior teams and AHL veterans.

Oh exactly, which is why I assume the PA would want to change the rules in the next lockout. Though the bolded is a knock against that. I'm surprised I don't hear it brought up more, but maybe that's why.

[beerme1]

Looking good in preseason is like looking good on a first date, everyone does. 

 

Ha ha I can agree with that.

 

 

If Murray thinks Guhle would develop better in Buffalo over juniors, so be it. But if we're starting a 19yr old kid in defense, not a good sign.

 

This doesn't seem likely either but I fully believe juniors will discourage or damage growth.

 

 

In the past, this team got set back by rushing rpospects to the pros - look at Myers and Gringo.  Guhle will spend another year in Juniors and, when that season is over, play a few games in Rochester

 

So then the answer is give him nine games with Sabres, expose some flaws tell him to work on that, report to Roch for end of season and playoffs and then be ready to roll next season if you show it or you go to Roch for more seasoning.

[Derrico]

Ha ha I can agree with that.

 

 

 

This doesn't seem likely either but I fully believe juniors will discourage or damage growth.

 

 

 

So then the answer is give him nine games with Sabres, expose some flaws tell him to work on that, report to Roch for end of season and playoffs and then be ready to roll next season if you show it or you go to Roch for more seasoning.

This is probably what is going to happen unless he has an amazing camp and 9 game tryout.

[qwksndmonster]

This doesn't seem likely either but I fully believe juniors will discourage or damage growth.

Being in juniors too long isn't the best way to facilitate growth, but I disagree strongly that it damages growth.

[nfreeman]

Maybe.

 

Nelson is likely fighting Franson (he's a righty).

 

I agree with this and I kinda expect Nelson to start the season in the lineup, with Franson as #7.

 

In the past, this team got set back by rushing rpospects to the pros - look at Myers and Gringo.  Guhle will spend another year in Juniors and, when that season is over, play a few games in Rochester

 

I agree with this as well.

[qwksndmonster]

Gringo is my new favorite Grigorenko nickname.

[Hoss]

I agree that we can't rush prospects which means literally nothing when it comes to evaluating who the best players for this team are. If Guhle looks ready and is a better player than Josh Gorges come October he'll be on the team.

 

I hate this blanket term "rushing prospects." It seems so many assume there's an age requirement to prevent this when really everybody develops differently.

I expect Guhle to go back to juniors, but it's no lock and language indicating it is is just a false claim of knowledge. There's absolutely a change Guhle makes the team just as there is a change Nelson does.

[That Aud Smell]

I agree that we can't rush prospects which means literally nothing when it comes to evaluating who the best players for this team are. If Guhle looks ready and is a better player than Josh Gorges come October he'll be on the team.

 

I hate this blanket term "rushing prospects." It seems so many assume there's an age requirement to prevent this when really everybody develops differently.

I expect Guhle to go back to juniors, but it's no lock and language indicating it is is just a false claim of knowledge. There's absolutely a change Guhle makes the team just as there is a change Nelson does.

 

Not rushing prospects is a good rule of thumb, is all. If the FO were on the fence about a particular prospect, it is better to err on the side of choosing more development. But it's not a reason to hold someone back who has removed any doubt on the subject of whether they're ready.

 

I've thought several times about the marching orders Reinhart apparently received when he was sent back down after that sneak peek (9 games or whatever) -- basically, he was given a training regimen so rigorous that his on-ice production was expected to dip even while his body and game became more pro-ready.

[Derrico]

Not rushing prospects is a good rule of thumb, is all. If the FO were on the fence about a particular prospect, it is better to err on the side of choosing more development. But it's not a reason to hold someone back who has removed any doubt on the subject of whether they're ready.

 

I've thought several times about the marching orders Reinhart apparently received when he was sent back down after that sneak peek (9 games or whatever) -- basically, he was given a training regimen so rigorous that his on-ice production was expected to dip even while his body and game became more pro-ready.

I agree with this but also agree with Hoss point.  No need to rush him at all.  But he did have a year in junior after his draft year.  Does he need more time?  If in doubt I would err on the side of caution and send him back.  Especially since the big club has enough talent we don't 'need' these guys right away.  But....If he comes to camp and is clearly superior to a guy like Gorges then maybe he is ready. 

[That Aud Smell]

I agree with this but also agree with Hoss point.  No need to rush him at all.  But he did have a year in junior after his draft year.  Does he need more time?  If in doubt I would err on the side of caution and send him back.  Especially since the big club has enough talent we don't 'need' these guys right away.  But....If he comes to camp and is clearly superior to a guy like Gorges then maybe he is ready. 

 

I hear you. Guhle's showing last camp is why I referenced what happened with Reinhart that last year in juniors. I wonder if Guhle received the pro-ready training instructions when he was sent back last year. It'd be great if he were ahead of schedule.

[kas23]

There's also a misconception that if we place a teenager on our roster, they'll likely end up like Grigorenko or Zadorov. And even so, there's still no evidence their careers were detrimentally affected by this either. They could've sucked no matter what.

 

If Guhle is ready, he's ready. If not, then he's not.

 

And besides, Guhle or no Guhle, we still need Fowler or Barrie.

Edited July 6, 2016 by kas23

[Thorny]

There's also a misconception that if we place a teenager on our roster, they'll likely end up like Grigorenko or Zadorov. And even so, there's still no evidence their careers were detrimentally affected by this either. They could've sucked no matter what.

If Guhle is ready, he's ready. If not, then he's not.

And besides, Guhle or no Guhle, we still need Fowler or Barrie.

While either would be an awesome addition, and we'd be much the better for it, I would argue we don't necessarily "need" one of them. If McCabe shows himself to be a true top 4 this season, we will be in pretty good shape.

[3putt]

Fowler and or Barrie are luxuries not necessities. 

[WildCard]

Fowler and or Barrie are luxuries not necessities.

I disagree. Vesey is a luxury

[Huckleberry]

I think we are forgetting Franson had concussion symptoms , How far is his recovery ?

[Thorny]

I disagree. Vesey is a luxury

Luxury may not be the right word, but I agree with 3putt when he says those 2 D men are not necessities. Neither is Vesey. Before we added Kulikov, adding a LHD was a necessity. Didn't even have enough LHD to fill out the roster.

 

Fowler and Barrie I wouldn't call luxuries, and they would me more important adds than Vesey, but I wouldn't say that we absolutely have to add them.

[3putt]

I disagree. Vesey is a luxury

Vesey is a luxury as well. We do not have any gaping holes on d.  Could we upgrade?  Probably, but we got a lhd to play with Risto.  Vesey is a luxury we can afford, the other 2 would require creating more holes, unless Vesey was already in the fold.

[kas23]

While either would be an awesome addition, and we'd be much the better for it, I would argue we don't necessarily "need" one of them. If McCabe shows himself to be a true top 4 this season, we will be in pretty good shape.

An awesome addition is what I really meant. While we don't really need players, just as we didn't need players during the tanks, I think one is needed if we realistically want a good playoff run. As it is now, we'll likely be battling for a playoff spot, which is still great news.

[jsb]

I agree with this and I kinda expect Nelson to start the season in the lineup, with Franson as #7.

 

 

I think the short term outlook would be to play Franson as long as he's ok and then pass him along at the trade deadline and get someone for him. If he's the 7th guy that just lowers his value. Nelson unless he just is head and shoulders above Franson, he starts in Rochester IMO.

[Thorny]

I think the short term outlook would be to play Franson as long as he's ok and then pass him along at the trade deadline and get someone for him. If he's the 7th guy that just lowers his value. Nelson unless he just is head and shoulders above Franson, he starts in Rochester IMO.

Yup. Barring a trade for Fowler, which probably bumps Gorges to 7th man status, the 7th guy will probably be a scrub Murray picks up between now and training camp.

[TrueBlueGED]

Yup. Barring a trade for Fowler, which probably bumps Gorges to 7th man status, the 7th guy will probably be a scrub Murray picks up between now and training camp.

 

I'm just closing my eyes the ~15-20 games Bogo misses :lol:

[Huckleberry]

Has there been any report on franson regarding his recovery from his brain being squished ? because everyone here keeps counting him in their line up.