Jerry Jabber Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Last year, Tim Murray made a lot of bold moves both during the season and after the season. While the Sabres got good players in return such as O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian (still too early to tell on Lehner), Murray gave up a lot of prospects and drafts in return. Would it have been better to have kept all of those players and waited for their development? I know it's too early to tell if these moves are going to workout or not, but it seems Murray gave up a lot of assets for the players he got in return. If this has been brought up before, I apologize in advance. Edited January 16, 2016 by Jerry Jabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 No he didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) No. Edited January 16, 2016 by The Big Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 He executed his plan almost to perfection. Turning future assets into current players. Almost all of whom have validated their worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR HOLLIDAY Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Lerner would be the one guy that hasn't proven anything yet and hopefully that starts tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintwestwood Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Did he get some good players? Yes Did he overpay for them? Yes Should he have held onto those prospects and picks to "watch them develop" before dealing them away? No For the moves he made to this team this year, they should be playing much better and should not be looking at another deadline of selling while looking at possibly another top 5 pick, so the team as a whole has been underachieving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I don't think the question can be answered yet, but I would do the Miller, Myers and Zadorov deals all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Last year, Tim Murray made a lot of bold moves both during the season and after the season. While the Sabres got good players in return such as O'Reilly, Kane, Bogosian (still too early to tell on Lehner), Murray gave up a lot of prospects and drafts in return. Would it have been better to have kept all of those players and waited for their development? I know it's too early to tell if these moves are going to workout or not, but it seems Murray gave up a lot of assets for the players he got in return. If this has been brought up before, I apologize in advance. Don't ever apologize for starting a thread, it's something we desperately need around here. That said, no, I don't believe so. And it's for the simple reason that he traded away hope for proven talent. We have enough hope in our 4 rookies, we need some actual players to compliment them No he didn't. It's weird seeing Connolly talk to Connolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Did he get some good players? Yes Did he overpay for them? Yes Should he have held onto those prospects and picks to "watch them develop" before dealing them away? No For the moves he made to this team this year, they should be playing much better and should not be looking at another deadline of selling while looking at possibly another top 5 pick, so the team as a whole has been underachieving You've stated almost all the points I was going to make. Murray definitely overpaid and he's made several mistakes so far. The overall build and structure of the team remains sound. The Winnipeg deal is going to turn into a "meh" affair, but I wasn't sold on Myers anyway. He way overpaid for Lehner who is utterly replaceable and not the No. 1 goalie Murray thinks he is. I now want to see how Murray handles the veteran sell off at the trade deadline and what he is able to get for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Definitely not a fan of the Lehner deal either, I see him as backup material, maybe fringe starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 The one thing about the Lehner trade that may save it to some extent is how important Legwand has been supposedly to the leadership and locker room morale. When a cap dump actually gives you something, that's a great bonus. Edmonton did that, that is only draft players and wait for them to develop. The league isn't in a vacuum, your team, regardless of age, will be playing 82 games and many of the younger players may get to play against idols of theirs. Where Edmonton has failed was in that they didn't make the O'Reilly type deal, or hell even the Gionta signing. Vets are key to bringing the youngsters up to speed, and teaching them about how to be an NHLer. Did we overpay, yes, in most of the trades. But that being said, we can't have an unlimited pool of prospects; it doesn't help you since you are limited to 50 contracts. Would I'd of like to have kept all the good prospects, sure, but you can't enter the marketplace without something of value. Not only that however, the fact Murray has been going after specific types of players shows he's trying to construct a team, not just acquiring players willy-nilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Yes imo, mostly the picks, possibly Armia... need a scorer. Not impressed with goalies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'll say no. We older fans cannot wait for kids to develop. We have been there and done that. Murray put the team where he wanted and he pulled the trigger on getting some proven NHL'ers on the roster. We got top draft picks who will develop into solid players (probably), but part two of the rebuild was acquiring good players. Murry paid what he had to in order to get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'll say no. We older fans cannot wait for kids to develop. We have been there and done that. Murray put the team where he wanted and he pulled the trigger on getting some proven NHL'ers on the roster. We got top draft picks who will develop into solid players (probably), but part two of the rebuild was acquiring good players. Murry paid what he had to in order to get them. I was starting to think I was alone in my sentiments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I supported Murray's bold trades. Still do. At this point he hit one out of the park and the other one he is fouling off. I watched Kane last night toss the puck blindly away and Bogosian get dropped on the wall pinching in the offensive zone and said to myself, really, we got nothing here. Two really disappointing players. The Lehner trade could be the tie breaker. And, so far, it's been disappointing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Definitely not a fan of the Lehner deal either, I see him as backup material, maybe fringe starter. This. I am happy with all the other moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Yes, he has traded away too much for what we have received. The O'Reilly trade looks good. The others not so much. He has traded a staggering number of high (first or second round) draft picks. I believe it was two second round picks for Fasching, the first pick of the second round was part of the O'Reilly trade, a first round pick for Lehner, and a first round pick and a second round pick (Lemieux picked at the top of the second round) in the trade for Kane et. al. I have not been following the Amerks too closely, but it does not seem that we have a lot of young talented players in the AHL ready to contribute in the next few years to the Sabres. I think the picks traded were important to building a pipeline of talent. I also do not buy the argument that the Kane trade has not been a great success for either team so Murray cannot be faulted for that trade. Maybe Murray should have made a better trade for those assets. Clearly it is too early to make any final determinations about any of these moves, but as of now, I think Murray has been too generous in terms of trading away draft picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Unless it's a top 15 pick, I don't care at all about draft picks. Most of these kids never pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted January 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Don't ever apologize for starting a thread, it's something we desperately need around here. That said, no, I don't believe so. And it's for the simple reason that he traded away hope for proven talent. We have enough hope in our 4 rookies, we need some actual players to compliment them It's weird seeing Connolly talk to Connolly Thanks, I appreciate that. I post on TwoBillsDrive and moderators close threads over there even if the topic was discuss months ago or in part of another thread. Edited January 16, 2016 by Jerry Jabber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) Colin White is at a Johnny Gudreau level right now in college and he was picked at 21. The blanket statement that most won't pan out is a stretch. ROR would have been a FA at the end of this season and would have cost no assets to acquire. Overpaying is just as dangerous to the build as only building with draft picks. The lack of patience by the fan base and the organization will ultimately cause this rebuild to fail. Edited January 16, 2016 by 3putt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Colin White is at a Johnny Gudreau level right now in college and he was picked at 21. The blanket statement that most won't pan out is a stretch. ROR would have been a FA at the end of this season and would have cost no assets to acquire. Overpaying is just as dangerous to the build as only building with draft picks. The lack of patience by the fan base and the organization will ultimately cause this rebuild to fail. And who says Murray would have taken Colin White? And that's really the point--there's a whole lot of angst over a complete unknown. I hated the trade and wouldn't object to a time machine undoing it, but I think the continued obsession over a late 1st round pick has become a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 No, you have to spend assets to make assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Yes imo, mostly the picks, possibly Armia... need a scorer. Not impressed with goalies Not even with Ullmark? He has shown some flashes of brilliance i thought. As for the original topic- No i don't think they gave up too much. Murray is a draft guru and has assembled a pretty big scouting department so we need to hope they can have a decent success rate at drafting players to fill out a roster. He traded away pieces to get the core of the team. I think we can all agree our core is ROR, Eichel, Kane and Reinhart. It's very early still to start thinking about the draft classes that Murray has drafted, but a few of the players have already shown they might be contributors at the NHL level- From 2014, Martin and Karabecek, and from this past draft Estephen, Guhle and Borgen all have looked good. That doesn't include Cornel and Fasching from previous drafts/trades. Not all have to hit, and they won't, but i'd be shocked if none of these guys play regular time in the NHL at some point. Also, don't forget the Sabres still have 11 draft picks in the 2016 draft and that doesn't count any they may receive in potential deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I don't think he overpayed for most of the deals. Look at what was given up, nothing that we can say we really regret so far. What this team needs is ANOTHER top 5 pick this year. A lot (not all, but most) of the teams that get really good when they are young don't do it with just 2 "top 2" picks of their own that they develop...it takes 3 or 4 high level picks. The Panthers have taken 4 'top 5' picks in the last 5 years. I don't think I need to tell anyone how many tops picks Edmonton has. Tampa has 4 "top 6" picks in the last 7 years. Chicago, L.A., Pittsburgh...all has multiple high top 5 or top 10 picks leading up to the time they competed for the Cup. Once more year of picking high (hopefully top 5) for the Sabres, and I think they will be good. Just hope Murray doesn't trade away this coming top pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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