Trade: Lehner and Legwand to Buffalo

[jad1]

It's obvious that Murray highly prioritized the goaltending position, targeted his guy and got him. Meanwhile, Edmonton has needed a goalie for the last five years and continues to wait for the market to come to them, with a similar set of assets as the Sabres to move.

 

It looks like Edmonton is going to be forced to either overpay for Talbot and Lack, or sign a leftover FA.

 

As a side note, Murray had an up close look at several goalies on the trade and FA market and targeted Lehner. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out for Edmonton and Buffalo.

[LaLaLaFontaine]

I categorically reject this line of thought. Everyone is throwing around stats and opinions of other people to try and discredit this trade. The presumption is that Tim Murray doesn't know any of this and that his uncle pulled one over on him. That's complete horseshit. Tim knows exactly what he is trading for and he knows exactly the price he paid for it. Tim probably knows this guy better than his own mother.

This doesn't mean that it was a good trade but nobody was fooled here. It's just a matter of disagreement on the value between him and the fanbase.

If anything, we should be excited to learn what he apparently sees in this guy…

+1

[LGR4GM]

I categorically reject this line of thought. Everyone is throwing around stats and opinions of other people to try and discredit this trade. The presumption is that Tim Murray doesn't know any of this and that his uncle pulled one over on him. That's complete horseshit. Tim knows exactly what he is trading for and he knows exactly the price he paid for it. Tim probably knows this guy better than his own mother.

 

This doesn't mean that it was a good trade but nobody was fooled here. It's just a matter of disagreement on the value between him and the fanbase.

 

If anything, we should be excited to learn what he apparently sees in this guy…

might want to add horses#!t to the filter.

 

Also you are right, we should be patient. 

[Weave]

If conventional wisdom is that a late 1st round pick is coin toss to be an NHLer than this was a good move.  We have a proven (lightly) NHL player for a late 1st round pick.

 

If we call this draft one of the deepest in a decade......... what are the odds the pick becomes more than the typical 50/50 just to have an NHL impact?

[nfreeman]

It's obvious that Murray highly prioritized the goaltending position, targeted his guy and got him. Meanwhile, Edmonton has needed a goalie for the last five years and continues to wait for the market to come to them, with a similar set of assets as the Sabres to move.

 

It looks like Edmonton is going to be forced to either overpay for Talbot and Lack, or sign a leftover FA.

 

As a side note, Murray had an up close look at several goalies on the trade and FA market and targeted Lehner. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out for Edmonton and Buffalo.

Good post. Excellent point regarding Edmonton.

[deluca67]

I categorically reject this line of thought. Everyone is throwing around stats and opinions of other people to try and discredit this trade. The presumption is that Tim Murray doesn't know any of this and that his uncle pulled one over on him. That's complete horseshit. Tim knows exactly what he is trading for and he knows exactly the price he paid for it. Tim probably knows this guy better than his own mother.

 

This doesn't mean that it was a good trade but nobody was fooled here. It's just a matter of disagreement on the value between him and the fanbase.

 

If anything, we should be excited to learn what he apparently sees in this guy…

As we have all seen here in the past a GM can get locked in on a player and is often lost in the vision of the player he drafted and the current player he has become. IMO, Tim Murray got caught up in trading for the "prospect" Robin Lehner and not the 23 year old Robin Lehner with 86 NHL games under his belt. Sometimes familiarity can be blinding. and Brian Murray took advantage.

Edited June 26, 2015 by DeLuca1967

[Robviously]

As we have all seen here in the past a GM can get locked in on a player and is often lost in the vision of the player he drafted and the current player he has become. IMO, Tim Murray got caught up in trading for the "prospect" Robin Lehner and not the 23 year old Robin Lehner with 86 NHL games under his belt. Sometimes familiarity can be blinding. and Brian Murray took advantage.

Good Lord, I hate how much I'm agreeing with you right now.

[DarthEbriate]

Admittedly, there are way too many threads going right now and I've only just gotten out of work to begin reading. Also, I'm sure someone with much more knowledge than me has a more accurate tally. But here's what I've got....

 

Thomas Vanek was traded for:

• G Robin Lehner (starter)
• C David Legwand (3^rd/4^th line)
• LW Matt Moulson (2^nd line)
• C Cody McCormick (4^th line, enforcer)
• D Josh Gorges (2^nd pairing, 3^rd pairing in a couple years, Alternate captain)
• C Eric Cornel – still in CHL
• D Brycen Martin – still in CHL
• F Jack Nevins (AHL enforcer)
• NY Islanders’ 2015 2^nd round pick (to be selected tomorrow morning)
• Montreal Canadiens’ 2016 7^th round pick

Let's not talk about four 1st-round picks from Edmonton, at least for a little while.

[Nitro60]

This year's goalie talent in the, per Central Scouting, is developmental only.  See a run in the late second or early third rounds.   Sabres can draft a goalie and develop him for the next four years.  This is a smart trade.  Lehner is entering his prime.  

[wjag]

Knowing he is only 23, has two years left on his contract and then is an RFA makes this seem a lot better in my eyes.

[Sidc3000]

This year's goalie talent in the, per Central Scouting, is developmental only.  See a run in the late second or early third rounds.   Sabres can draft a goalie and develop him for the next four years.  This is a smart trade.  Lehner is entering his prime.  

I'm not concerned about his numbers last season.  Goalies have bad seasons....  What is my concern is the concussion. 

[Samson's Flow]

In a few moments we will know what the 21st pick is. Is there anyone here that you would rather have if the Sabres still had it? White? Konecny?

[Robviously]

In a few moments we will know what the 21st pick is. Is there anyone here that you would rather have if the Sabres still had it? White? Konecny?

They took Colin White.

 

I would've liked White, Boeser, Bittner, Carlo, Larsson, etc. 

[Eleven]

I categorically reject this line of thought. Everyone is throwing around stats and opinions of other people to try and discredit this trade. The presumption is that Tim Murray doesn't know any of this and that his uncle pulled one over on him. That's complete horseshit. Tim knows exactly what he is trading for and he knows exactly the price he paid for it. Tim probably knows this guy better than his own mother.

 

This doesn't mean that it was a good trade but nobody was fooled here. It's just a matter of disagreement on the value between him and the fanbase.

 

If anything, we should be excited to learn what he apparently sees in this guy…

 

I don't understand it, either.  It was a good freaking trade.  AGAIN, look at it this way:  The Sabs drafted an NHL-ready goalie with the 21st pick.  HOW THE ###### that's a problem, I'll never know.  Has nothing to do with the Murray family; it was a smart move.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Eleven

[PromoTheRobot]

In a few moments we will know what the 21st pick is. Is there anyone here that you would rather have if the Sabres still had it? White? Konecny?

And Samsonov goes @ 22 to Washington. He would have been there for Buffalo.

[bunomatic]

I find it odd that Regier apologists still exist. Live in the now people. 

[Jeanbe]

And Samsonov goes @ 22 to Washington. He would have been there for Buffalo.

Years away too and no guarantee he makes it either.   

[Kelly the Dog]

As we have all seen here in the past a GM can get locked in on a player and is often lost in the vision of the player he drafted and the current player he has become. IMO, Tim Murray got caught up in trading for the "prospect" Robin Lehner and not the 23 year old Robin Lehner with 86 NHL games under his belt. Sometimes familiarity can be blinding. and Brian Murray took advantage.

Murray tried to get Lehner for 31 with the Legwand contract included. Bryan Murray said flat no. I truly doubt, since the Rangers were turning down a #1 for Talbot that GMTM could have waited Bryan out and got Ottawa to cave. He likely knew this. Then he had to decide the difference of the 21 vs the 31 pick. Murray said he went to all of his scouts and asked them if they thought the difference between the 21 guy would be significant from the 31 guy and his group of scouts all agreed that it would be marginal. You may not get the exact player you wanted but the guy you would get would be very comparable. He wanted the guy so he got him. It sounds like solid reasoning not being fleeced.

And Samsonov goes @ 22 to Washington. He would have been there for Buffalo.

And five years from now he would be Robin Lehner.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[smj]

Prospects are always overrated because everyone tends to focus on their strengths and ceilings forgetting that very few players reach their ceilings and most get stuck near their floors based on the sheer number of players competing.  Samsonov, if he even makes it, likely has a career similar to the goalies we've had through Buffalo this year and were frustrated because they were not elite.  Lehner is already NHL good and might be great.  Plus you don't have to wait three years.  You take that trade every time.

[deluca67]

Murray tried to get Lehner for 31 with the Legwand contract included. Bryan Murray said flat no. I truly doubt, since the Rangers were turning down a #1 for Talbot that GMTM could have waited Bryan out and got Ottawa to cave. He likely knew this. Then he had to decide the difference of the 21 vs the 31 pick. Murray said he went to all of his scouts and asked them if they thought the difference between the 21 guy would be significant from the 31 guy and his group of scouts all agreed that it would be marginal. You may not get the exact player you wanted but the guy you would get would be very comparable. He wanted the guy so he got him. It sounds like solid reasoning not being fleeced.

 

And five years from now he would be Robin Lehner.

If the pick five years from know became Robin Lehner it would be a huge disappointment.

 

Of the three Ottawa starting goalies last year Lehner by far had the worst record, worst save percentage and gaa. His sv% and gaa were worse than Lindback and Neuvirth of the Sabres. There were better uses for the 21st pick than a career 30-49 goaltender. As I said previously, Tim Murray looks at Lehner as the goaltender he scouted and drafted not the goaltender with a very lackluster NHL career to date. To think Brian Murray did not know this and didn't take advantage of this  is being a bit naive.

 

Overall Tim Murray had a great day. Hopefully Lehner turns back into the goaltender Murray thinks he is and the Sabres aren't burning though more assets trying to find another goaltender over the next few years.    

Prospects are always overrated because everyone tends to focus on their strengths and ceilings forgetting that very few players reach their ceilings and most get stuck near their floors based on the sheer number of players competing.  Samsonov, if he even makes it, likely has a career similar to the goalies we've had through Buffalo this year and were frustrated because they were not elite.  Lehner is already NHL good and might be great.  Plus you don't have to wait three years.  You take that trade every time.

More average than good. With what the Sabres are building in front of the goal the expectations are going to be high, I don't think average gets it done. 

[Kelly the Dog]

If the pick five years from know became Robin Lehner it would be a huge disappointment.

 

Of the three Ottawa starting goalies last year Lehner by far had the worst record, worst save percentage and gaa. His sv% and gaa were worse than Lindback and Neuvirth of the Sabres. There were better uses for the 21st pick than a career 30-49 goaltender. As I said previously, Tim Murray looks at Lehner as the goaltender he scouted and drafted not the goaltender with a very lackluster NHL career to date. To think Brian Murray did not know this and didn't take advantage of this is being a bit naive.

 

Overall Tim Murray had a great day. Hopefully Lehner turns back into the goaltender Murray thinks he is and the Sabres aren't burning though more assets trying to find another goaltender over the next few years.

More average than good. With what the Sabres are building in front of the goal the expectations are going to be high, I don't think average gets it done.

 

It's surely not a lock that he is even a decent #1 goalie. But it also seems to be pretty much general consensus that 23 is the beginning of an NHL career for a goalie. He's 23. Murray's followed him for seven years. There is no question he and his scouts watched every goal and bad foal he let in the last couple years. Edited June 27, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[deluca67]

It's surely not a lock that he is even a decent #1 goalie. But it also seems to be pretty much general consensus that 23 is the beginning of an NHL career for a goalie. He's 23. Murray's followed him for seven years. There is no question he and his scouts watched every goal and bad foal he let in the last couple years.

As we have all witnessed here with those who shall not be named, at times when a GM gets locked in on a player what is clear to some is not clear to that GM or is easily be excused away. Today Murray was talking about Lehner's game being effected by him not being named the #1 goalie. That was odd and I think that says something. 

 

I'm not trying to beat up on Murray, for this one individual trade i wish he would have gone in a different direction or simply waited for another opportunity down the line. Overall I am happy with the job Murray has done. I was not a big proponent of the O'Reilly trade before it happened, but seeing what the actual price ended up being I think it was a fantastic job by Murray. 

[Kelly the Dog]

As we have all witnessed here with those who shall not be named, at times when a GM gets locked in on a player what is clear to some is not clear to that GM or is easily be excused away. Today Murray was talking about Lehner's game being effected by him not being named the #1 goalie. That was odd and I think that says something. 

 

I'm not trying to beat up on Murray, for this one individual trade i wish he would have gone in a different direction or simply waited for another opportunity down the line. Overall I am happy with the job Murray has done. I was not a big proponent of the O'Reilly trade before it happened, but seeing what the actual price ended up being I think it was a fantastic job by Murray. 

Oh I pretty much agree with you. He was set on Lehner and he really didn't care what he paid for him as long as it was not outrageous. And Lehner may not be good. I hated the trade initially and only barely accepted it later. In fact, I'm even rationalizing that we should look at the trades together and no one would have minded the 21-Z-Girgs-Compher for ROR-McGinn and then the 31 for Lehner-Legwant would look fine. That's crazy, I know. Ha.

 

Right now, like you said, GMTM had a great day. We will know in 2-3 years if Lehner sucks, is pretty good, good or very good. Each of those are probably 25% although as of now I still trust Murray's ability as a scout, so I think it's more likely to be the better two than the worse two.

 

I just love that we have a #1 goalie (only because they are all a crapshoot), and hopefully the Goalie Whisperer will stay on and do his magic on a slightly more talented guy than Neuvirth and Lindback and Enroth.

 

This team could make the playoffs.

[deluca67]

Oh I pretty much agree with you. He was set on Lehner and he really didn't care what he paid for him as long as it was not outrageous. And Lehner may not be good. I hated the trade initially and only barely accepted it later. In fact, I'm even rationalizing that we should look at the trades together and no one would have minded the 21-Z-Girgs-Compher for ROR-McGinn and then the 31 for Lehner-Legwant would look fine. That's crazy, I know. Ha.

 

Right now, like you said, GMTM had a great day. We will know in 2-3 years if Lehner sucks, is pretty good, good or very good. Each of those are probably 25% although as of now I still trust Murray's ability as a scout, so I think it's more likely to be the better two than the worse two.

 

I just love that we have a #1 goalie (only because they are all a crapshoot), and hopefully the Goalie Whisperer will stay on and do his magic on a slightly more talented guy than Neuvirth and Lindback and Enroth.

 

This team could make the playoffs.

I think this team will make the playoffs, Not just get in, solidly make the playoffs. 

[spndnchz]

white. Zfg