Taro T Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 You just said it yourself... Coaches are happy Players are happy Owners will make up for it How then is that last line even possible? I don't expect every team to now spend an extra $3 million a year on a coach.....but even at an average raise of 500K.....and think about this....Babcock is about to raise the average coaching salary of $100K+.....on his own.......tomorrow morning the value of the NHL teams just went down a total of $30 million on Babcock alone....and will be down in the range of $150-300 million total if just a mediocre increase takes place. That is.....unless like you expect.....the owners make it up...and again, how will that happen? You can't even say Babcock is adding value to the league. The Sabres sold 16,000 season tickets even when their team president went around saying the goal was to tank, and the team sends out tank pamphlets with their invoices. You know it....I know it...X knows it....PA knows it..........I don't expect everyone to..... Two totally unrelated matters. If the Sabres don't take the revenue sharing the league rules say their entitled to, then they are leaving money they could use for players, staff, scouts, coaches, etc sitting on the table and it will end up in somebody else's pocket. To leave it sitting on the table makes no sense. And it isn't shafting the fans to take it. It's been an extremely long time since a coach as highly regarded as Babcock was a true FA and not a fired coach. Because his current employer still wanted him, he was absolutely going to carry a premium with him. He absolutely was going to get over $4MM/year and my expectation before the bidding began was that he'd command $5MM. If that's where he ends up, Quenneville comes in somewhere between $4-5MM when his deal is up in IIRC 2 years. Then everybody else slots in below those 2. If it's a given that he'll make ~$5MM, it might as well be the team I root for landing him. That in and of itself isn't going to blow up teams cost structures. Shooting much higher than that, and then it could distort the cost structures. It'll be interesting to see if the deal the Loafs gave him does skew the cost structure. My expectation is that whoever the Sabres end up with will not exceed $4MM/yr and likely will be in the $2.5-3.5MM/yr range. (Where very good coaches with experience will be slotted anyhow.) Unless it's Richardson (who I don't expect them to land as HC, he's outside what the Pegulas seem to look for) who would end up somewhere around $2MM. None of those amounts are effected by the Babcock saga. If the new guy gets more than that, then your view that the Babcock offer wasn't its own even will look prescient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanbe Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 TIM GRAHAM ON TWITTER: Sabres livid for way Babcock handled past few days. Sabres so confident he was coming that they were prepared for Monday news conference. I'm still reading this thread so pardon me if this has been mentioned by Sabres39 on HockeyBuzz said wait for Monday. Others said Sabres39 had a few other scoops as well over there. Personally, we'll get a very good coach who will want to coach the guys we have and those coming up. As I said in my previous post, Babcock just used the Sabres! He jerked them around to get a better deal elsewhere. It is not complicated. He played the Pegulas and Murray for fools!!!! I disagree with playing the Sabres for fools. Babcock, if all I'm reading is somewhat true, played one against the other to get the best deal for himself. If reports are true the Sabres pulled the deal, well good for them. If they didn't, and Babcock went to TO after playing the one against another, then good for him and if that is the case I'm very happy he isn't a Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Just got home. Did I miss something ? Always the bridesmaid Buffalo. What happened today reminded me about the McDavid draft lottery debacle and how Murray let his emotions rule his statement following the lottery. Why can't we take our lumps and move on. Babcock would have been a coup but we don't need him and we can move on without him. We'll be fine. I haven't read this thread as I do have to work when I'm there but I'll catch up over the next hour and reserve judgement. Has Murray spoken publicly ? Do we think some kind of deal was in place. Did Babs use us to leverage the deal he got in Toronta ? Did he ever intend to grace us with his presence ? These are all questions that I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Just got home. Did I miss something ? Always the bridesmaid Buffalo. What happened today reminded me about the McDavid draft lottery debacle and how Murray let his emotions rule his statement following the lottery. Why can't we take our lumps and move on. Babcock would have been a coup but we don't need him and we can move on without him. We'll be fine. I haven't read this thread as I do have to work when I'm there but I'll catch up over the next hour and reserve judgement. Has Murray spoken publicly ? Do we think some kind of deal was in place. Did Babs use us to leverage the deal he got in Toronta ? Did he ever intend to grace us with his presence ? These are all questions that I have. Murray hasn't said anything, so he hasn't let his emotions rule any kind of statement. There are reports that the Sabres as an organization are "livid", because they believed they had Babcock locked up. They are from anonymous sources, no actual quotes yet. Their anger could be justified, or it could be non existent, no actual quotes yet from the organization. Babcock at the very least leveraged the Sabres offer to get a better deal with the Leafs, we don't know much more than that at the moment, unless I am very much mistaken. Edited May 21, 2015 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I agree with Eleven that this happens all the time in business. The devil's in the details. If he made a handshake deal, and backed off it after leaving his offeror with a clear impression that a deal was in place and all that remained was to paper it, well, then, he's a dick and the Sabres were right to be angry. I think it's far more likely that he advised the team that the terms they were offering were all acceptable to him, that he felt good about the offer, and that he was on his way back to Detroit to confirm matters with his wife, and that he'd be in touch today. The Sabres had to be worried that they failed to close when he left. Then they saw the report of Babcock being noncommittal with a DET writer. At that point, the team had to know things were on the verge of going off the rails. The upshot: I think Babcock played this exactly right, and got everything he wanted. Just be careful what you wish for, Mikey. Edited May 21, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I agree with Eleven that this happens all the time in business. The devil's in the details. If he made a handshake deal, and backed off it after leaving his offeror with a clear impression that a deal was in place and all that remained was to paper it, well, then, he's a dick and the Sabres were right to be angry. I think it's far more likely that he advised the team that the terms they were offering were all acceptable to him, that he felt good about the offer, and that he was on his way back to Detroit to confirm matters with his wife, and that he'd be in touch today. The Sabres had to be worried that they failed to close when he left. Then they saw the report of Babcock being noncommittal with a DET writer. At that point, the team had to know things were on the verge of going off the rails. The upshot: I think Babcock played this exactly right, and got everything he wanted. Just be careful what you wish for, Mikey. Good post. I won't be upset when Nikita body-slams Phaneuf into the Leafs' bench and musses that ginger mane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smj Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't think Babcock played the Sabres for fools and I don't think it is the Sabres fault. I think Babcock revealed his true nature - egotistical, indecisive and, in the end, wanted to coach in Canada. I'm glad we didn't get him. I think what he did was unethical - it is one thing to shop your services but it is another to mislead people. If I was Detroit I'd be even more pissed off! Coaches are always over and under-rated based upon the players they have and how things happen to click together. At this point does he really have the interest in patiently developing young players? I'm not convinced he was the best fit so I'm fine with how things worked out. Now let's get a coach that is willing and able to develop very young talent in the NHL which is quite different than working with a veteran team. I could have coached Detroit to almost as many wins this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Mike Babcock... that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) If the reports are true, Boucher should be as pissed as the Sabres FO. I'm not sure who got bent over more around lunch time today, Pegula or Boucher? Babcock is a great coach, but in the end, the coach is only as good as the players on the ice. Hey 'c-ock...have fun dealing with that trainwreck of a roster and even more, have fun dealing with the Toronto media. Edited May 21, 2015 by LabattBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If the reports are true, Boucher should be as pissed as the Sabres FO. I'm not sure who got bent over more around lunch time today, Pegula or Boucher? Babcock is a great coach, but in the end, the coach is only as good as the players on the ice. Hey 'c-ock...have fun dealing with that trainwreck of a roster and even more, have fun dealing with the Toronto media. Boucher from media reports they were hours away from signing him to be the next Leafs HC when Babcock called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So c0ck it is then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If the reports are true, Boucher should be as pissed as the Sabres FO. I'm not sure who got bent over more around lunch time today, Pegula or Boucher? Babcock is a great coach, but in the end, the coach is only as good as the players on the ice. Hey 'c-ock...have fun dealing with that trainwreck of a roster and even more, have fun dealing with the Toronto media. I would have been too scared to diss Boucher like that. I would've "agreed" to a deal, and then locked him out of the GM's office and called for security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 At this point does he really have the interest in patiently developing young players? I'm not convinced he was the best fit I like this point a lot. Mike Babcock... ###### that guy. Quite so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This is business, not personal. Time to move on. Babcock has a responsibility to take care of himself. He did. Case closed. Pegula and Murray better have a satisfactory plan B! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 For those of you saying this is just business – I disagree. Sports leagues are small communities. This isn't your normal job interview with company and a and there's 100 other companies with no relation to yours. If there was a verbal agreement then it isn't just business – Breaking that agreement is a crappy thing to do. My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's impossible to discuss what happened today from an outsider's perspective. We don't have enough information. I hope the story is leaked to the Sabres' preferred journalistic outlet soon. I think it will be interesting and entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) For those of you saying this is just business – I disagree. Sports leagues are small communities. This isn't your normal job interview with company and a and there's 100 other companies with no relation to yours. If there was a verbal agreement then it isn't just business – Breaking that agreement is a crappy thing to do. My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog ######. Agreed. Breaking an agreement in principle is virtually unheard of in pro sports so I find the comparison to other businesses a bit off. And I'm not so sure it happens all that frequently in other businesses, either. Negotiating in bad faith is frowned upon, regardless of the type of business in which that negotiating is conducted. If all the reports about Babcock's turnaround are true, it just doesn't reflect well on the man. GO SABRES!!! Edited May 21, 2015 by K-9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog ######. That's an automatic given isn't it? More so if him and Shanny split GM duties I think. It will be a lovely steaming pile though that will amaze and entertain us for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 For those of you saying this is just business – I disagree. Sports leagues are small communities. This isn't your normal job interview with company and a and there's 100 other companies with no relation to yours. If there was a verbal agreement then it isn't just business – Breaking that agreement is a crappy thing to do. My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog ######. We don't really know that that happened though, do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 For those of you saying this is just business – I disagree. Sports leagues are small communities. This isn't your normal job interview with company and a and there's 100 other companies with no relation to yours. If there was a verbal agreement then it isn't just business – Breaking that agreement is a crappy thing to do. My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog ######. No agreement is real until the paper is inked. That's just life. Maybe my career has made me cynical, but that's how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 No agreement is real until the paper is inked. That's just life. Maybe my career has made me cynical, but that's how I see it. You're cynical. He's a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) For those of you saying this is just business – I disagree. Sports leagues are small communities. This isn't your normal job interview with company and a and there's 100 other companies with no relation to yours. If there was a verbal agreement then it isn't just business – Breaking that agreement is a crappy thing to do. My only wish for him now is to have all the success that Brian Burke had up there and to step in a steaming pile of dog ######. This is the feeling I get with everything that went down, as well. If it turns out that the Sabres were making far too big of an assumption and Babcock said nothing at all committal, it's a different story, just business then. But my gut is that Babcock partook in something pretty crappy. But oh well. We have to move on and recognize that there are other coaching options, good ones at that. Hopefully Murray is working on it now. Edited May 21, 2015 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 You're cynical. He's a dick. This is not a dichotomy. I can live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This is not a dichotomy. I can live with it. Yeah. If he said something like "It looks good, but I have one more team to contact in the morning then I will let you know", that's one thing. But if he verbally agreed and then called TO unsolicited and then signed there,... F### him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah. If he said something like "It looks good, but I have one more team to contact in the morning then I will let you know", that's one thing. But if he verbally agreed and then called TO unsolicited and then signed there,... F### him. He's not our coach. He is the coach of the Leafs. F### him anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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