Sabres fire Ted Nolan

[Doohickie]

Really, Lemieux said he wanted to be treated like a 1st rounder after not getting drafted,

 

Balls and Mess I agree with except Murray said he expected Sabres to be better as an excuse for getting rid of Nolan... My problem is we went from a wishy washy guy Darcy, to someone that has no loyalty or integrity.

He has no loyalty, I'll give you that. When you're trying to change the culture and direction of a team that can be a good thing. It's hard to effect change when you're too closely linked to the past (and those associated with it).

 

As far as integrity goes, he's in a position where he has to make hard decisions. Lack of integrity would be if he publicly and enthusiastically backed Nolan in public, calling him the greatest coach since Toe Blake, then abruptly fired him. He didn't do that. He gave modest support for Nolan while Nolan was in his employ. You might say that by giving him a three year contract Murray made a commitment to Nolan. That commitment (I believe) is being honored in that Nolan will get paid for the full three year period.

 

He's trying to ice a Cup contender. If he thinks he can upgrade the head coach position, he might as well get on with it.

 

Integrity to me means doing his best to improve the team; that's his job and I want him to do it well. If it means a new coach, that's okay and to me doesn't impugn his integrity at all.

[inkman]

What is this based on?

Firing Nolan and looking like a dweeby putz. :rolleyes:

[LTS]

Really, Lemieux said he wanted to be treated like a 1st rounder after not getting drafted,

 

Balls and Mess I agree with except Murray said he expected Sabres to be better as an excuse for getting rid of Nolan... My problem is we went from a wishy washy guy Darcy, to someone that has no loyalty or integrity.

 

Yea, so he said he wanted to be treated like a first rounder.  He thought he was.  So what?  His central scouting ranking was 28, on others he was between 26 and around 50.  That's 1st to 2nd round.  He went with the first pick in the second round.  What does any of that have to do with a mistake being made?

 

What are your claims of loyalty and integrity based upon? 

 

Offering Nolan a 3 year contract and firing him after 1?  Let's finally put this to bed shall we?  Everyone on the planet knew the Sabres were going to be basement dwellers this season.  The GM needed a coach and Pat LaFontaine provided that option when he brought in Ted Nolan.  Nolan was a washed up NHL coach who was relegated to making waves with the Latvian National Team.  His name does not come up in coaching vacancy rumors.  He's out of the league.

 

Ted Nolan is an interim coach.  He needs a deal.  He wants a chance to show, through a season, that perhaps he can coach in the NHL.  He knows that no other team is going to call him (they haven't for years) so he's got one option.  The Buffalo Sabres who are going to finish in the bottom 3 in 2015. They agree on a 3 year deal.  How did that happen?  We don't know, Ted asked for 3 as a condition of putting up with this season?  Perhaps Murray offered 3 as a way to say, hey, you are here for 1 but we'll hook you up.  Pegula certainly was on board for paying a little extra to a coach whom fans loved.  It lessened the pain of losing.. for awhile.

 

If you thought Ted Nolan was going to be here longer, hell, if he thought he was going to be here longer, then why did his assistant coaches (other than Irbe) only get 1 year contracts?  

 

See, in the end, this was always a 1 year deal because no other real coach was going to sign on to the Buffalo Sabres for a year of losing.  

 

Now.. if this doesn't change your mind then I am not sure what will.  Everyone knew it was a 1 year deal, so there's no breaking of loyalty when he was let go.  You ignore that Murray did not throw Nolan under the bus in the press conference.  You ignore that the Sabres organization, via Tim Murray, offered Nolan a 3 for 1 deal.  How is that cold and heartless?

 

As for integrity?  I'm still trying to find a statement where Murray said something a did something different.  I don't think it's there. 

[MattPie]

What is this based on?

 

North Buffalo's seething hate for TM.

[Weave]

 

 

 

On a side note, It makes me happy that "butt hurt" is now a part of our lexicon.

 

It's not new here.  Google sez it goes back to at least 2009 here, http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/16309-has-vanek-been-hurt-all-year/

 

 

It is one of the better phrases to come out of the interwebs, though.

[North Buffalo]

Firing Nolan and looking like a dweeby putz. :rolleyes:

Hey I still go after those guys on the ice, sorry can't help myself.

 

They call our beer league team Iceholes for a reason.

Edited April 15, 2015 by North Buffalo

[MBHockey13]

Really, Lemieux said he wanted to be treated like a 1st rounder after not getting drafted,

 

Balls and Mess I agree with except Murray said he expected Sabres to be better as an excuse for getting rid of Nolan... My problem is we went from a wishy washy guy Darcy, to someone that has no loyalty or integrity.

 

I know someone else called you on it, but what says Tim Murray doesn't have loyalty or integrity?

 

Why would he be loyal to Ted Nolan? He didn't hire him. It sounds like Nolan and him didn't have a great relationship, and didn't communicate that much, which GMTM put on himself as well as Ted. He never said during the season he was going to keep him at the end of the season. It's not like Ted ever said he agreed with and supported the moves GMTM made.

 

Plus, Murray has worked with a lot of the same people at different jobs from the NYR to Anaheim to Ottawa. You can claim nepotism, but it seems to be he has good relationships with a lot of people in the league, including Chuck Fletcher of the Wild who seems to be a reliable trading partner.

 

I don't see how you can claim he doesn't have loyalty. What type of loyalty should he have - to a coach he didn't hire and who has lead his team to consecutive 30th place finishes, with historically bad analytics in multiple categories? To players he didn't bring in and doesn't feel represents the type of team he believes will contend for the Cup? To Pegula? To the fans? Who hasn't he been loyal to that he should have?

 

Plus, are you basing your claim of no integrity on the fact he made a statement in a hastily called press conference on a Sunday night that his intent wasn't for the Sabres to finish in last? He explained that himself. He said he brought in players and was hoping for improvement, and if the Sabres were in 24th or whatever at the trade deadline he may have tried to resign some guys. It's such a throw-away line and people keep focusing on that like he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Sheesh. What else did he say or do to demonstrate a lack of integrity? The tank itself? 

[North Buffalo]

Fine you disagree, buy if it walks like a duck... Starting to see a concerning pattern. Hey i have my bias and you guys seem to think Murray is a shiny new toy. I'll admit it if i am wrong, but if this Murray experiment craps the bed it will set Sabres back even more... A lot will depend on his choice for the next coach... And yes it will be his choice this time.

I know someone else called you on it, but what says Tim Murray doesn't have loyalty or integrity?

 

Why would he be loyal to Ted Nolan? He didn't hire him. It sounds like Nolan and him didn't have a great relationship, and didn't communicate that much, which GMTM put on himself as well as Ted. He never said during the season he was going to keep him at the end of the season. It's not like Ted ever said he agreed with and supported the moves GMTM made.

Plus, Murray has worked with a lot of the same people at different jobs from the NYR to Anaheim to Ottawa. You can claim nepotism, but it seems to be he has good relationships with a lot of people in the league, including Chuck Fletcher of the Wild who seems to be a reliable trading partner.

 

I don't see how you can claim he doesn't have loyalty. What type of loyalty should he have - to a coach he didn't hire and who has lead his team to consecutive 30th place finishes, with historically bad analytics in multiple categories? To players he didn't bring in and doesn't feel represents the type of team he believes will contend for the Cup? To Pegula? To the fans? Who hasn't he been loyal to that he should have?

 

Plus, are you basing your claim of no integrity on the fact he made a statement in a hastily called press conference on a Sunday night that his intent wasn't for the Sabres to finish in last? He explained that himself. He said he brought in players and was hoping for improvement, and if the Sabres were in 24th or whatever at the trade deadline he may have tried to resign some guys. It's such a throw-away line and people keep focusing on that like he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Sheesh. What else did he say or do to demonstrate a lack of integrity? The tank itself?

 

Edited April 15, 2015 by North Buffalo

[beerme1]

Fine you disagree, buy if it walks like a duck... Starting to see a concerning pattern. Hey i have my bias and you guys seem to think Murray is a shiny new toy. I'll admit it if i am wrong, but if this Murray experiment craps the bed it will set Sabres back even more... A lot will depend on his choice for the next coach... And yes it will be his choice this time.

 

 

Can you compare the likes of Babcock, Hitchcock, Julien, McClellan, Tippet or for that matter any other NHL coach and how they stack up to Teddy?

[SwampD]

Can you compare the likes of Babcock, Hitchcock, Julien, McClellan, Tippet or for that matter any other NHL coach and how they stack up to Teddy?

Is the answer that Babcock and McClellan are the only ones without a Jack Adams award?

 

 

:devil:

[North Buffalo]

Can you compare the likes of Babcock, Hitchcock, Julien, McClellan, Tippet or for that matter any other NHL coach and how they stack up to Teddy?

Dude you misread me, TN I said probably needed to go because he wasnt a Murray guy. But my concern is for Murray and his GM style. TN has his faults and i am ok that TM thought he wasnt a good fit or not my guy, but say that, dont try and justify it with lame allusion to being better. I think it would have been great to have PLF, Murray and TN on the same page. PLF under estimated Murray's ability and desire to go behind his back to take control and at that point TN's days were numbered.

 

Anything less than that is disengenious. The question I have is after all that hardball can Murray produce guys past the first round and deal with anyone not is not a lap dog as a coach. Conscensus building takes work but tends to get everyone going together. Fiefdoms tend to implode...

 

Would Babcock actually want to coach under Murray?

[JJFIVEOH]

But why do I get the sense that since Lemieux wouldn't sign entry level Murray shipped him out at first chance.  If Murray thought he might be a problem before the draft in that regard then why draft him... if he didn't think it would be a problem then that is on him and scouts for not doing their due dilligence and I again question his drafting ability.  Granted this is his first time doing things, but unless he brings in an experienced coach that he can work with and not a yes man...ball @#$%$er, then I think TPegs should let him go.  Sabres need to find guys in this draft past the first pick. Shipping off a 1st and Armia and Lemieux for Kane who has issues himself without a coach that can handle that scenario as well as Murray is a tall order and brings into question is Murray a train wreck.  The next coach will give a big indication and if he screws this up, TPegs needs to fire him on the spot. 

 

Those details will be overlooked by the gang while the grazing fields are plentiful. As soon as they get the memo that it's time to fire up the bus, it'll be brought out. Just give it time. The bus, at the moment, is in dire need of a tune up and oil change. As soon as Nolan's been run over enough times and they can get it to the shop then we'll see who is next in line.  :P  :angel:

[qwksndmonster]

Those details will be overlooked by the gang while the grazing fields are plentiful. As soon as they get the memo that it's time to fire up the bus, it'll be brought out. Just give it time. The bus, at the moment, is in dire need of a tune up and oil change. As soon as Nolan's been run over enough times and they can get it to the shop then we'll see who is next in line.  :P  :angel:

Your constant insinuations that most posters on here are motivated by some sort of juvenile groupthink are pathetic.  Nolan's gone, let it go.

[MattPie]

Your constant insinuations that most posters on here are motivated by some sort of juvenile groupthink are pathetic.  Nolan's gone, let it go.

 

This is ridiculous. We grazorista are a highly integrated hive mind that only parrot what the shadowy leaders tell us. To think that we individually came to similar conclusions based on evidence is willfully ignorant of reality.

 

EDIT: Notice: we're on to you, or so Benevolent Shadowy Leader (BSL) tells us. Watch your back.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Met'yuPirog

[K-9]

Dude you misread me, TN I said probably needed to go because he wasnt a Murray guy. But my concern is for Murray and his GM style. TN has his faults and i am ok that TM thought he wasnt a good fit or not my guy, but say that, dont try and justify it with lame allusion to being better. I think it would have been great to have PLF, Murray and TN on the same page. PLF under estimated Murray's ability and desire to go behind his back to take control and at that point TN's days were numbered.

 

Anything less than that is disengenious. The question I have is after all that hardball can Murray produce guys past the first round and deal with anyone not is not a lap dog as a coach. Conscensus building takes work but tends to get everyone going together. Fiefdoms tend to implode...

 

Would Babcock actually want to coach under Murray?

Is it not possible that teams improve with better coaching and that Murray honestly believes we can do better in the coaching department in order achieve that improvement? 

 

I'm not following the comment about Murray going behind PL's back at all. Are you now blaming Murray for PL's dismissal? That Murray intentionally set out to usurp the man who hired him? Seems you are taking your anti-Murray position to a whole new level with that accusation. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[JJFIVEOH]

Your constant insinuations that most posters on here are motivated by some sort of juvenile groupthink are pathetic.  Nolan's gone, let it go.

 

You know what's more pathetic? The fact that for some reason you think my opinion is less worthy than anyone else in this thread. 13 pages worth, and you're going to single me out to 'let it go'? I know you and Numark have this obsession with me and follow me wherever I go, but it's starting to get creepy. Lighten up Princess you're not as important as you think you are. 

[K-9]

This is ridiculous. We grazorista are a highly integrated hive mind that only parrot what the shadowy leaders tell us. To think that we individually came to similar conclusions based on evidence is willfully ignorant of reality.

 

EDIT: Notice: we're on to you, or so Benevolent Shadowy Leader (BSL) tells us. Watch your back.

Pure gold. 

[shrader]

Is it not possible that teams improve with better coaching and that Murray honestly believes we can do better in the coaching department in order achieve that improvement? 

 

I'm not following the comment about Murray going behind PL's back at all. Are you now blaming Murray for PL's dismissal? That Murray intentionally set out to usurp the man who hired him? Seems you are taking your anti-Murray position to a whole new level with that accusation. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

If anything, those comments related to LaFontaine make Pat look incompetent.  To hire a guy and then run away a few months later, you really have to wonder what is going on in his head.  Like Nolan, LaFontaine now has a documented history of not being able to work well with others.  Maybe both situations really did suck and he is completely innocent with each, but there has to be a cloud of uncertainty hovering over him as well.

 

I loved LaFontaine as a player and as an ambassador to this community, but I sure as hell don't want him running my organization at this point.

[North Buffalo]

Your constant insinuations that most posters on here are motivated by some sort of juvenile groupthink are pathetic.  Nolan's gone, let it go.

Read what he wrote, not abt Nolan, but about group think murray's cahoonas washing.

[LGR4GM]

idk what for all these years I joined in on these arguments, it is so much more fun just to sit back and...

[Samson's Flow]

Kane is more of a definite than Lemiuex is or ever will be. 

Can I rehash a really old argument and say that Evander Kane is exactly what everyone was hoping for in the 'Concept of Zack Kassian'. I'm really glad that we as a fanbase don't seem to be worried about rostering a team of creampuffs anymore.

 

:thumbsup:

idk what for all these years I joined in on these arguments, it is so much more fun just to sit back and...

thats why I have been here for nearly 8 years and only have ~2k posts. Reading the chaos from afar is so much more interesting.

[North Buffalo]

If anything, those comments related to LaFontaine make Pat look incompetent.  To hire a guy and then run away a few months later, you really have to wonder what is going on in his head.  Like Nolan, LaFontaine now has a documented history of not being able to work well with others.  Maybe both situations really did suck and he is completely innocent with each, but there has to be a cloud of uncertainty hovering over him as well.

 

I loved LaFontaine as a player and as an ambassador to this community, but I sure as hell don't want him running my organization at this point.

Oh i agree Patty had no idea how to play in primetime and Murray took advantage of it for his own gain. Not sure that benefits the sabres though.

[Doohickie]

I'll admit it if i am wrong,

 

No, I don't really think you will.

[North Buffalo]

No, I don't really think you will.

Not to you...

Edited April 15, 2015 by North Buffalo

[Doohickie]

dont try and justify it with lame allusion to being better.

 

What did you want Murray to do?  Come out and say what we all know, that Nolan is not up to the minimum standard of an NHL coach?  That he sucks?  He's not going to do that; it's called tact.

Not to you

 

And the horse you rode in on.

Would Babcock actually want to coach under Murray?

 

We'll find out, won't we?

This is ridiculous. We grazorista are a highly integrated hive mind that only parrot what the shadowy leaders tell us. To think that we individually came to similar conclusions based on evidence is willfully ignorant of reality.

 

EDIT: Notice: we're on to you, or so Benevolent Shadowy Leader (BSL) tells us. Watch your back.

 

I, for one, embrace our Benevolent Shadowy Overlord.