Hoss Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Advanced statistics are fantastic. They're not really "advanced," it's just that hockey stats were basic for the longest time... No need to be asshats because I think this Myers vs Strachan stuff is silly no matter what advanced stats say about it right now. Everybody on this team has struggled mightily. Their stats on the season will look bad eithe way. Strachan getting a few points in less games isn't enough to cause a debate over. Myers is the better player. By a long shot. The debate about whether Myers is good or not is a good one. But what Strachan does isn't relevant to his play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 God Bless You.... Just the fact that you felt the need to defend him to this point should be enough of an example that Myers is a bust compared to his reputation by some/many. SHould you ever have to compare a #8 fill-in defenseman to a $40 million "Norris Candidate"???? And there's the completion of the troll. It's nice to see one wrapped up all 30-minute-sitcom-style in a single reading. No, no one should have to defend Myers against silly comparisons but there's only one reason we're discussing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Advanced statistics are fantastic. They're not really "advanced," it's just that hockey stats were basic for the longest time... No need to be asshats because I think this Myers vs Strachan stuff is silly no matter what advanced stats say about it right now. Everybody on this team has struggled mightily. Their stats on the season will look bad eithe way. Strachan getting a few points in less games isn't enough to cause a debate over. Myers is the better player. By a long shot. The debate about whether Myers is good or not is a good one. But what Strachan does isn't relevant to his play. It is silly...which is the point......we have X. praising Lindy for Myers winning a Calder under him in his 1st of 6 seasons under Lindy.....then we have people praising advanced stats all the time, while the stats this year show Strachan is a much better value than Myers.....and we are further along in the season than Myers 1 Calder season was to his career.....SOMEONE has to be full of it. Do I think you get more for a trade for Strachan....heck no. I just think too many here dance around golden calves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 God Bless You.... Just the fact that you felt the need to defend him to this point should be enough of an example that Myers is a bust compared to his reputation by some/many. SHould you ever have to compare a #8 fill-in defenseman to a $40 million "Norris Candidate"???? I bet Myers starts on a flacid donkey, while Strachan's is already at mast. Just goes to show how much better Myers is...... Whatever. I want my donuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 And there's the completion of the troll. It's nice to see one wrapped up all 30-minute-sitcom-style in a single reading. No, no one should have to defend Myers against silly comparisons but there's only one reason we're discussing it. See above. If anyone thinks of anything i do as a "troll", you are always missing a key component. Be it a joke, or a reminder of the fact that the management hides a whole lot of stuff in the closet, or evaluating Tyler Myers. I'd rather waste my time on puppy videos on youtube. Whatever. I want my donuts. If that is true...I owe you donuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Okay this Strachan-Myers debate is dumb... It's three points versus two less than a third of the way into a season on a team that blows donkeys at scoring. Take it down a notch on the potty mouth, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Take it down a notch on the potty mouth, please. This is the kind of modding that loses games. We need a mod that'll clear out the front of the net and hammer forwards into the end-boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Take it down a notch on the potty mouth, please. Aye aye captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Advanced statistics are fantastic. They're not really "advanced," it's just that hockey stats were basic for the longest time... No need to be asshats because I think this Myers vs Strachan stuff is silly no matter what advanced stats say about it right now. Everybody on this team has struggled mightily. Their stats on the season will look bad eithe way. Strachan getting a few points in less games isn't enough to cause a debate over. Myers is the better player. By a long shot. The debate about whether Myers is good or not is a good one. But what Strachan does isn't relevant to his play. This we can agree on. Ratios and qualified ratios in my world hardly qualify as "advanced." Fenwick, Corsi, PDO, etc. are crude measures of puck possession given the underlying assumption that goals are random and thus having the puck more than the other guys leads to more shots, which leads to more goals. Easy. Showing a correlation between goals for/against and puck possession is useful but also fairly obvious, I think. The larger question is which guys do I need on my team and which guys don't I need on my team to improve these stats... so in this thread the question is should Myers stay or go? Do all the within-team comparisons you want with these marginally useful stats, but it is very difficult to accurately compare across teams because the relevant variables go well beyond shots, zone starts, and the things that are currently being measured. That's the problem as I see it. Since the error term is very large, a GM still has to rely mostly on what he sees with his eyes. My eyes tell me we can do better than Myers. ...and to be a jerk about it, I also think the "advanced stats" say so as well. ;) As I see it, many are correctly pointing out that Myers is the best of what we currently have, which is probably true. But, I still don't think that means he is what this team needs in the long run. So, if we can flip him for a better fit, I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 It is silly...which is the point......we have X. praising Lindy for Myers winning a Calder under him in his 1st of 6 seasons under Lindy.....then we have people praising advanced stats all the time, while the stats this year show Strachan is a much better value than Myers.....and we are further along in the season than Myers 1 Calder season was to his career.....SOMEONE has to be full of it. Do I think you get more for a trade for Strachan....heck no. I just think too many here dance around golden calves. :yawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 The only thing we should be focusing on is who will net us more in a trade, Strachan or Myers. With the way the reason is going, who is more productive is a moot point. Now let's get some bodies moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I'd do Myers for Nikushkin + a conditional 3rd round in the event he plays fewer than 41 games this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 As talented as he is, I'm not sure I'm ready to have 3 Russian born players being the core of the Sabres for years to come. Call it stereotypical of Russian players, but they are risks to defect and many of them play consistently lackadaisical games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 :yawn: If only we had a donkey emoticon........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 It is silly...which is the point......we have X. praising Lindy for Myers winning a Calder under him in his 1st of 6 seasons under Lindy... Praise? Just a little balance. He did win the Calder. FWIW, I would trade the Lindy coached Myers for the Lindy coached NIchushkin. Whatever that means. In your world it seems talking about TRADING a player - which ultimately gets him off the team - is a festival of praise. Have you been boozing or something? Not getting this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 (edited) I think a major reason the Sabres are so bad these last two years is that it's not that each player is bad, it's that their teammate next to them is either not better than them or even worse. I play hockey and admit, I can be pretty bad. But when I have teammates who can skate, shoot, pass the puck, I become better. The Sabres have nobody with any skills that stand out, nobody who makes their teammates better. So they can't work together because none of them make any of them any better. Get it? Edited November 12, 2014 by 716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 As talented as he is, I'm not sure I'm ready to have 3 Russian born players being the core of the Sabres for years to come. Call it stereotypical of Russian players, but they are risks to defect and many of them play consistently lackadaisical games As many know, I'm as xenophobic as they come but that sounds nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 As talented as he is, I'm not sure I'm ready to have 3 Russian born players being the core of the Sabres for years to come. Call it stereotypical of Russian players, but they are risks to defect and many of them play consistently lackadaisical games As many know, I'm as xenophobic as they come but that sounds nuts. I don't know. I kinda want my lackadaisical players to be American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 As talented as he is, I'm not sure I'm ready to have 3 Russian born players being the core of the Sabres for years to come. Call it stereotypical of Russian players, but they are risks to defect and many of them play consistently lackadaisical games The already-in-the-organization core, IMO, is Girgensons, Ristolainen, and Reinhart. Zadorov is no.4 and Nichushkin would be no.5, following by Grigorenko. Plus a top-3 pick in 2015 immediately becomes the top guy in our core. I also think the "Russian factor" is significantly mitigated when you're talking about guys that came here as teenagers to play even before they were drafted (or in Nichushkin's case, right after). When you hear Grigorenko speak now, his accent is pretty mild. Compare that to Afinogenov who didn't show up in North American until he was ~20 and didn't speak English for a long time. And, of course, at the end of the day, you just want the most talented team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Not sure if this was posted, Darren Dreger feels Red Wings continue to have the most interest Darren Dreger was on TSN 1040 Tuesday morning.On if the Sabres will be patient enough with Tyler Myers that could still be a part of the McDavid or Eichel era in Buffalo: “I think that... Buffalo would consider trading Tyler Myers. The Detroit Red Wings have probably been the most persistent and consistent in showing interest in Myers. They heavily scouted him last year. They continue to heavily scout him now. The asking price has always been too high. Most recently, I believe, it was Dylan Larkin, a prospect for the Red Wings, and maybe Jakub Kindl would need to be thrown into that mix as well. And it’s a bit too much of a gamble. “But hey, I can appreciate what Tim Murray is doing. Tyler Myers might be a good fit in the rebuild. He’s young enough. He’s got size. He’s a right-shot D-man. There’s a lot of positives in Tyler Myers’ game. You don’t know that he’s topped out yet at his best. Some believe that there’s enough flaw that you don’t want to overpay to acquire him, but I don’t know that Buffalo sees it that way. So unless somebody does overpay to get him, then why wouldn’t you hold onto him and see if he is a part of the fix.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 The already-in-the-organization core, IMO, is Girgensons, Ristolainen, and Reinhart. Zadorov is no.4 and Nichushkin would be no.5, following by Grigorenko. Plus a top-3 pick in 2015 immediately becomes the top guy in our core. Nichushkin has the potential of being the best of all of those. Just ask Benn or Jagr- http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/20/jaromir-jagr-cant-help-but-rave-about-stars-rookie-nichushkin/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 As many know, I'm as xenophobic as they come but that sounds nuts. Not sure it's really xenophobic. Rasmus, Zemgus, Neuvirth, Lemieux....all prospects I like and aren't worried at all about their work ethic. Zadorov comes in overweight and looks terrible durring prospect tournaments, and then he talks about going to the KHL instead of juniors. Grigo floats and already had attitude issues last year about his demotion. We all watched how the best Russian players in the world get together last winter and refused to put effort in anywhere but the offensive zone. (besides Datsyuk) I like Zadorov, and think Grigs can still make it, but they and their countrymen have shown what I stated above. It's not that they're the only ones prone to it, Armia had many of the same problems Grigs does, but it isn't as prevalant among the big name players. I also think the "Russian factor" is significantly mitigated when you're talking about guys that came here as teenagers to play even before they were drafted (or in Nichushkin's case, right after). When you hear Grigorenko speak now, his accent is pretty mild. Compare that to Afinogenov who didn't show up in North American until he was ~20 and didn't speak English for a long time. And, of course, at the end of the day, you just want the most talented team. Agreed with the bold, but talent can only take you so far. As for the teenage part, I hope you're right. Switching cultures like that is by no means easy, but hopefully they can find a 2nd home over here and like it enough to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Not sure if this was posted, Darren Dreger feels Red Wings continue to have the most interest I want Mantha. Throw in whatever else you need to but get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I want Mantha. Throw in whatever else you need to but get it done. It's just not going to happen. Might take Myers, Grigorenko and then something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 It's just not going to happen. Might take Myers, Grigorenko and then something. I'd still do that. Throw them a few of our seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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