Trade speculation 2014-15

[Randall Flagg]

Pommer is playing on the top line and the #1 PP and is has been going back and forth between #1 and #2 in scoring for the wild.

 

If anything, Vanek is the complimentary piece on that team.

So THAT'S why Minny can't score on the Power Play!!

 

:angel:

[inkman]

So THAT'S why Minny can't score on the Power Play!!

 

:angel:

Power plays are only indicative of the type of PP coach they have. It's never the skill level of the players.

[WildCard]

Yes. Shinkaruk could fit into the top six as a scorer. Virtanen could be a top six forward. Some think McCann could but I'm not really sure about him as a prospect.

Shinkaruk is a bit like Ennis. I'd say he has a very real shot at being a top 6 guy.

Would you trade Myers for Ennis?

I wouldn't trade Myers for some unproven prospects. It just isn't worth the risk and I like Shinkaruk and Virtanen.

Would I trade Myers for a *second* Ennis? No, but only because I don't think you'd want more than 1 of that type of player in your Top 6. I'm good with having just 1 Ennis for now.

 

Shinkaruk has a lot of upside but it looks like he's off to a slow-ish start in the AHL.

 

I loved everything I knew about Virtanen from last year's draft but I think he's been hurt.

Thanks for the description. I think Rob said it best here; Ennis is good but one is enough for any team. If I trade Myers I want legitimate top 3 propspects/players coming back. Otherwise keep him and enjoy your stacked blue line in a few years.

 

Why trade Myers? Just because you can? That's ridiculous when you look at the future D corp for the Sabres, which will be stacked if you include Myers.

 

If Myers is part of a trade, it better blow me the f@&k away. He's definitely under valued on this board, IMHO.

I think if you can get blown the ###### away for him, trade him. I think Myers is underrated as a d-man, but not for what he is compared to what he should be. With his size and Calder year, he's shown us he can and should be better than a 3rd pairing d-man. I'm skeptical that he'll ever reach that level again, so if some other team thinks he can, then I say trade him and get value for their optimism for him while you still can.

 

My point is if a team is willing to offer you top pairing trade value you take it.

Shinkaruk and Markstrom aren't worth it. Hell tossing in Virtanen still doesn't make it worth it.

 

Agreed sicknfla, but Liger's right I think: I doubt those prospects are top pairing from what others have said here.

 

 

Rumors were Mike Richards is on the block, is it safe to assume nobody here wants Richards as the centerpiece of a Myers deal? I think we get ###### hosed if that's the case

[nfreeman]

If GMTM has a vision of what he wants on this team in 3 years and Myers is not part of it then he will be gone sooner rather than later. If sooner it will no doubt have an affect on the rest of the season. Regardless what they say finishing outside McEichle is a nightmare scenario for them. They did not sell this tank and the need for star players on us to finish 4th.

 

I just have this feeling that GMTM wants this to be HIS team. For whatever reason I do not get the impression that Myers is his guy.

 

I fully expect a Myers/Hodgson deal at some point. And it won't be for players that immediately jump into our lineup. Not saying I like the idea just think that he has a vision of the team he wants and those two will not be part of it.

 

You are saying a few different things here.

 

I think everyone agrees that TM would trade Myers, or anyone else, if he thought he was getting sufficient assets in return to make it worthwhile.

 

I think everyone also agrees that TM is going to build the kind of team he wants.

 

Finally, I think everyone also agrees that it's possible that the return for Myers, or anyone else, could be primarily comprised of picks/prospects who don't contribute immediately -- thus making the team worse this year.

 

However, all of those statements are qualitatively different from saying that TM is going to dump Myers in order to make the team worse this year.

 

As to the last statement -- my position has been and continues to be NFW.

[LGR4GM]

If GMTM has a vision of what he wants on this team in 3 years and Myers is not part of it then he will be gone sooner rather than later. If sooner it will no doubt have an affect on the rest of the season. Regardless what they say finishing outside McEichle is a nightmare scenario for them. They did not sell this tank and the need for star players on us to finish 4th.

 

I just have this feeling that GMTM wants this to be HIS team. For whatever reason I do not get the impression that Myers is his guy.

 

I fully expect a Myers/Hodgson deal at some point. And it won't be for players that immediately jump into our lineup. Not saying I like the idea just think that he has a vision of the team he wants and those two will not be part of it.

So if we finish in 4th we get Dylan Strome... I can live with that.

 

Agreed sicknfla, but Liger's right I think: I doubt those prospects are top pairing from what others have said here.

 

Rumors were Mike Richards is on the block, is it safe to assume nobody here wants Richards as the centerpiece of a Myers deal? I think we get ###### hosed if that's the case

It's not that they aren't top pairing guys it's that there is a big unknown if they can be. Virtanen has the skating and the shot to do it. Shinkaruk has the tenacity to do it. I think Virtanen has the better chance.

[PromoTheRobot]

@BuffNewsVogl- "The Sabres have returned to practice -- with two exceptions. Tyler Myers and Cody McCormick are absent.". Just throwing some wood into the fire.

 

Translation: I have no idea why but let's have fun speculating.

[sicknfla]

 

 

You are saying a few different things here.

 

I think everyone agrees that TM would trade Myers, or anyone else, if he thought he was getting sufficient assets in return to make it worthwhile.

 

I think everyone also agrees that TM is going to build the kind of team he wants.

 

Finally, I think everyone also agrees that it's possible that the return for Myers, or anyone else, could be primarily comprised of picks/prospects who don't contribute immediately -- thus making the team worse this year.

 

However, all of those statements are qualitatively different from saying that TM is going to dump Myers in order to make the team worse this year.

 

As to the last statement -- my position has been and continues to be NFW.

 

I disagree. If trading Myers is part of the plan he may be more apt to do it earlier in the season if we are in jeopardy of falling into that 4-6th pick range. Remember the "manipulate the draft " comment. This team (or more directly TP) did not go all in for Hannifan or Marzal.

 

Again, this is if and only IF Myers is not GMTM's guy. I agree he does not trade a player to get worse this year solely to tank. He will though trade a player to get worse THIS year if that player is not in the long term rebuild plan. Not sure where Myers stands.

 

 

So if we finish in 4th we get Dylan Strome... I can live with that.

 

 

 

 

So your ok we finiah 4th and take Strome but yet you regularly state that the year to tank was the lockout year when we missed out on McKinnon. You have me slightly confused. So your ok finishing a meaningless 4th and take a Strome when you could have had a McEichle. Not buying that one.

[LGR4GM]

So your ok we finiah 4th and take Strome but yet you regularly state that the year to tank was the lockout year when we missed out on McKinnon. You have me slightly confused. So your ok finishing a meaningless 4th and take a Strome when you could have had a McEichle. Not buying that one.

I really hate trying to explain complex things via a forum.

 

So in the lockout year if we had sold off our core and tanked, we would have only endured a minimal amount of suffering because it was a lockout shortened season. We could have then drafted Nathan MacKinnon who is a better prospect than Sam Reinhart (no offense to Sam, who I like). Then we could have started rebuilding and the key factor, developing our prospects.

 

This year there are two "prizes" for finishing at the bottom. Jack Eichel and Connor McDavid. Now tanking this year means that although we finished selling off our veteran talent last season and arguably bottomed out, we have not improved this season. The reason I am okay with Drafting 4th overall is primarily therefore because it tells me our prospects have stepped into and successfully assumed roles on the team. By doing this the team as a whole is better. That improvement is actually markedly more important than the 2015 draft pick because our previous picks such has Zemgus, Zadorov, Ristolainen, etc... need to keep showing improvement if this team is to be more than just Edmonton East. Now finishing 4th says that we have improved slightly which is a good sign. As such, in the deepest draft since 2004, I am content with taking a player that in any other year would be talked about at the top of his class. Strome is 2nd to McDavid primarily because he plays in his shadow but that doesn't mean he isn't worth a good pic.

 

It isn't meaningless to finish 4th. It means a great deal in the grander scheme of a cup run. I have said this multiple times, it is more important the steps forward Reinhart, Armia, Grigorenko, Zemgus, Nikita, Ristolainen, Bailey, Baptiste etc... make than it will be who we draft in June. Jack Eichel or Connor Mcdavid would add something to our team we currently have little of. However Dylan Strome, Mitch Marner, Pavel Zacha or whatever other forward emerges should not be written off.

 

I am not sure if I have explained my thought process fully or not but finishing dead last this year should not be the priority. Prospect development should be. We already have very good center prospects in Zemgus, Samson, and Mikhail coupled with the ability to draft 1 or 2 more center prospects this draft regardless of position. I would love McDavid or Eichel in Buffalo but it isn't the be all end all for me.

Edited November 24, 2014 by LGR4GM

[Iron Crotch]

ESPN comes pretty close with their rankings of Top-50 NHL defensemen. Correctly IMHO, Big Tyler isn't one of them. http://espn.go.com/n...-15-nhl-season-

 

I think Murray knows our future top pairing is Risto & Zadorov, which makes Big Tyler and his $5.5 million per year cap hit (through 2019) expendable if the right deal comes along. Teams will overpay for minute-eating defensemen and Murray is just waiting for someone to get desperate.

[LGR4GM]

What are teams paying 3/4 defenders now? 4mil or so?

[LastPommerFan]

What are teams paying 3/4 defenders now? 4mil or so?

 

#50 on the capgeek list makes $4.25, so figure just about all the 3/4 guys make less than that.

[sicknfla]

 

I really hate trying to explain complex things via a forum.

 

So in the lockout year if we had sold off our core and tanked, we would have only endured a minimal amount of suffering because it was a lockout shortened season. We could have then drafted Nathan MacKinnon who is a better prospect than Sam Reinhart (no offense to Sam, who I like). Then we could have started rebuilding and the key factor, developing our prospects.

 

This year there are two "prizes" for finishing at the bottom. Jack Eichel and Connor McDavid. Now tanking this year means that although we finished selling off our veteran talent last season and arguably bottomed out, we have not improved this season. The reason I am okay with Drafting 4th overall is primarily therefore because it tells me our prospects have stepped into and successfully assumed roles on the team. By doing this the team as a whole is better. That improvement is actually markedly more important than the 2015 draft pick because our previous picks such has Zemgus, Zadorov, Ristolainen, etc... need to keep showing improvement if this team is to be more than just Edmonton East. Now finishing 4th says that we have improved slightly which is a good sign. As such, in the deepest draft since 2004, I am content with taking a player that in any other year would be talked about at the top of his class. Strome is 2nd to McDavid primarily because he plays in his shadow but that doesn't mean he isn't worth a good pic.

 

It isn't meaningless to finish 4th. It means a great deal in the grander scheme of a cup run. I have said this multiple times, it is more important the steps forward Reinhart, Armia, Grigorenko, Zemgus, Nikita, Ristolainen, Bailey, Baptiste etc... make than it will be who we draft in June. Jack Eichel or Connor Mcdavid would add something to our team we currently have little of. However Dylan Strome, Mitch Marner, Pavel Zacha or whatever other forward emerges should not be written off.

 

I am not sure if I have explained my thought process fully or not but finishing dead last this year should not be the priority. Prospect development should be. We already have very good center prospects in Zemgus, Samson, and Mikhail coupled with the ability to draft 1 or 2 more center prospects this draft regardless of position. I would love McDavid or Eichel in Buffalo but it isn't the be all end all for me.

 

The young players that are helping us make it all the way to 4th from last are Zemgus, Risto, and Zadarov. That is 3 guys!!! Now go look at every other team in the league and see if we are unique in that. Who else on this team is that big of deal that we can say their improvement is so great that it makes a Strome over a McEichle not that big of deal?

 

With less than 7 months to go lets not get goofy and forget what we are trying to accomplish here. Adding a McEichle to the guys you mentioned above is what will make this a rebuild and not just a roster makeover.

 

When McEichle is tearing up the league and our 4th pick is pulling a Reinhart I think it will be much clearer. This season and these wins mean nothing. Yes, hopefully the young guys continue to develop but you would trade both Risto and Zadarov for McEichle in a heartbeat so why in the hell would we settle for 4th because a few guys showed improvement?

[TrueBlueGED]

#50 on the capgeek list makes $4.25, so figure just about all the 3/4 guys make less than that.

 

How many are on ELCs or bridge deals? Or on sweetheart deals signed before they really hit it big? This is mostly rhetorical, as I don't expect you to invest the time necessary to figure this out, but it's something to consider. Myers' deal was supposed to be a sweetheart long term, and it's not, and that makes me sad :(

[Iron Crotch]

#50 on the capgeek list makes $4.25, so figure just about all the 3/4 guys make less than that.

 

http://www.capgeek.c...tion=D&limit=50

 

Looks like Myers is tied for 18th among NHL defensemen in cap hit. Our team payroll is so low right now it doesn't really matter. But if he ends up as a second pairing defenseman then it is a pretty big cap hit for that role.

[TrueBlueGED]

http://www.capgeek.c...tion=D&limit=50

 

Looks like Myers is tied for 18th among NHL defensemen in cap hit. Our team payroll is so low right now it doesn't really matter. But if he ends up as a second pairing defenseman then it is a pretty big cap hit for that role.

 

Hey, at least we're far from the only ones paying a 2nd pairing Dman as a 1st pair player :)

[Iron Crotch]

Hey, at least we're far from the only ones paying a 2nd pairing Dman as a 1st pair player :)

 

That Orpik contract for the Caps looks really, really bad. Nikitin at $4.5 million for Edmonton is bad too. (I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing)

[sicknfla]

8 guys over 35 years old.

[LastPommerFan]

http://www.capgeek.c...tion=D&limit=50

 

Looks like Myers is tied for 18th among NHL defensemen in cap hit. Our team payroll is so low right now it doesn't really matter. But if he ends up as a second pairing defenseman then it is a pretty big cap hit for that role.

 

By the time the cap matters to the Sabres again, the average NHL defenseman will be making $4.5M. Assuming Myers continues to play slightly above average, the contract will not be a burden.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[Hoss]

 

 

By the time the cap matters to the Sabres again, the average NHL defenseman will be making $4.5M. Assuming Myers continues to play slightly above average, the contract will not be a burden.

 

I really hope GMTM doesn't follow the "make cap decisions based on potential future cap growth." That's how you get screwed over and have lockouts. Spend the money you have. Not what you think youll have in a few years.

[LGR4GM]

The young players that are helping us make it all the way to 4th from last are Zemgus, Risto, and Zadarov. That is 3 guys!!! Now go look at every other team in the league and see if we are unique in that. Who else on this team is that big of deal that we can say their improvement is so great that it makes a Strome over a McEichle not that big of deal?

 

With less than 7 months to go lets not get goofy and forget what we are trying to accomplish here. Adding a McEichle to the guys you mentioned above is what will make this a rebuild and not just a roster makeover.

 

When McEichle is tearing up the league and our 4th pick is pulling a Reinhart I think it will be much clearer. This season and these wins mean nothing. Yes, hopefully the young guys continue to develop but you would trade both Risto and Zadarov for McEichle in a heartbeat so why in the hell would we settle for 4th because a few guys showed improvement?

Because of how good the #4 guy is. Also you just wrote of Sam Reinhart, that is rediculous.

 

You don't understand what I am thinking or how I am looking at this and that's fine.

 

Eichel or McDavid would make the Sabres better. They just aren't the be all end all of this draft. I think Jack Eichel becomes a Sabre honestly. If we get Strome, Zacha, or whoever instead, we won't suddenly just be screwed. We won't then just be having a "roster makeover". There is just to much talent within the system to call it a makeover. We haven't had the talent of Zadorov or Risto in recent knowledge... I mean Myers and Tallinder were close. We haven't had RW like Armia, Baptiste and Bailey since Pominville and Dumont. We haven't had the center depth we currently have, without McEichel, since Drury and Briere. I understand that it is "unknown/untested/unproven" but Zemgus is proving it. Mikhail is showing us he is more. Sam Reinhart is willing, literally willing his junior team to win. It isn't about Jack or Connor. It is about the sum of the parts. That is why Jack or Connor going to another team won't break the rebuild. Strome, Zacha, Marner, ETC... these are all very good players with high amounts of skill.

 

I urge everyone to not be blinded to all else that moves by having McEichel tunnel vision. This draft will be headlined by them but the 2nd acts are fantastic. It would be like going to see The Beatles but only getting to see the Rolling Stones and Metallica and Queen... well sure you didn't see the headliner but dam that was a hell of a show.

[WildCard]

It's not that they aren't top pairing guys it's that there is a big unknown if they can be. Virtanen has the skating and the shot to do it. Shinkaruk has the tenacity to do it. I think Virtanen has the better chance.

I know what you mean, but there are a ton of guys with potential. I'd rather have one with some certainty or at least less of an unknown.

 

Because of how good the #4 guy is. Also you just wrote of Sam Reinhart, that is rediculous.

 

You don't understand what I am thinking or how I am looking at this and that's fine.

 

Eichel or McDavid would make the Sabres better. They just aren't the be all end all of this draft. I think Jack Eichel becomes a Sabre honestly. If we get Strome, Zacha, or whoever instead, we won't suddenly just be screwed. We won't then just be having a "roster makeover". There is just to much talent within the system to call it a makeover. We haven't had the talent of Zadorov or Risto in recent knowledge... I mean Myers and Tallinder were close. We haven't had RW like Armia, Baptiste and Bailey since Pominville and Dumont. We haven't had the center depth we currently have, without McEichel, since Drury and Briere. I understand that it is "unknown/untested/unproven" but Zemgus is proving it. Mikhail is showing us he is more. Sam Reinhart is willing, literally willing his junior team to win. It isn't about Jack or Connor. It is about the sum of the parts. That is why Jack or Connor going to another team won't break the rebuild. Strome, Zacha, Marner, ETC... these are all very good players with high amounts of skill.

 

I urge everyone to not be blinded to all else that moves by having McEichel tunnel vision. This draft will be headlined by them but the 2nd acts are fantastic. It would be like going to see The Beatles but only getting to see the Rolling Stones and Metallica and Queen... well sure you didn't see the headliner but dam that was a hell of a show.

Well said. My only thing is, as encouraging as all of this is, we came into this season to do one thing and one thing only: get McEichel. It's not the end-all-be-all of our success; we could win a Cup without them, but there's no denying it makes it much easier/more likely that we do with one of them. I care about three things this season. Sabres losing, their comradery amongst players,and our prospects' success at different levels.

[LastPommerFan]

I really hope GMTM doesn't follow the "make cap decisions based on potential future cap growth." That's how you get screwed over and have lockouts. Spend the money you have. Not what you think youll have in a few years.

 

Yes, fully agreed. I don't think the Myers contract will be OK because of foresight, I think it will be OK with his continued moderate growth and some conservative cap growth assumptions, but you're dead on about spending the money you have.

[sicknfla]

 

Because of how good the #4 guy is. Also you just wrote of Sam Reinhart, that is rediculous.

 

You don't understand what I am thinking or how I am looking at this and that's fine.

 

Eichel or McDavid would make the Sabres better. They just aren't the be all end all of this draft. I think Jack Eichel becomes a Sabre honestly. If we get Strome, Zacha, or whoever instead, we won't suddenly just be screwed. We won't then just be having a "roster makeover". There is just to much talent within the system to call it a makeover. We haven't had the talent of Zadorov or Risto in recent knowledge... I mean Myers and Tallinder were close. We haven't had RW like Armia, Baptiste and Bailey since Pominville and Dumont. We haven't had the center depth we currently have, without McEichel, since Drury and Briere. I understand that it is "unknown/untested/unproven" but Zemgus is proving it. Mikhail is showing us he is more. Sam Reinhart is willing, literally willing his junior team to win. It isn't about Jack or Connor. It is about the sum of the parts. That is why Jack or Connor going to another team won't break the rebuild. Strome, Zacha, Marner, ETC... these are all very good players with high amounts of skill.

 

I urge everyone to not be blinded to all else that moves by having McEichel tunnel vision. This draft will be headlined by them but the 2nd acts are fantastic. It would be like going to see The Beatles but only getting to see the Rolling Stones and Metallica and Queen... well sure you didn't see the headliner but dam that was a hell of a show.

 

My Reinhart comment was simply that he was so not ready for the NHL. Will he be a solid player - most likely yes. However, I don't think at the end of the day if we end up with Reinhart and Strome as the two main pieces to the tank we will consider that worth it. Yes, we accumulated a lot of other players that have the POTENTIAL to be good NHL players. Nome of them are in the same league as McEichle.

 

Are we on the way up as a respectable team? Yes. Will we survive without McEichle? Yes. Will we be MUCH better off with McEichle? Yes. That is non-debatable and finishing 4th would be a downright joke.

 

For arguements sake the year Crosby went #1 Benoit Pouliet went #4. Sure Pitt probably would have been ok with Pouliet (hey that rhymes) but they sure were a hell of a lot better off with Sid.

Edited November 25, 2014 by sicknfla

[Brawndo]

Eberle on the move to the Blues for Berglund as part of a larger package?

 

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Edmonton+Oilers+Louis+Blues+Jordan/10410704/story.html?cid=dlvr.it-twitter-ej_oilers

[Robviously]

Eberle on the move to the Blues for Berglund as part of a larger package?

 

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Edmonton+Oilers+Louis+Blues+Jordan/10410704/story.html?cid=dlvr.it-twitter-ej_oilers

This would be a fairly big trade if it goes down. I vote yes for excitement.

 

My Reinhart comment was simply that he was so not ready for the NHL. Will he be a solid player - most likely yes. However, I don't think at the end of the day if we end up with Reinhart and Strome as the two main pieces to the tank we will consider that worth it. Yes, we accumulated a lot of other players that have the POTENTIAL to be good NHL players. Nome of them are in the same league as McEichle.

 

Are we on the way up as a respectable team? Yes. Will we survive without McEichle? Yes. Will we be MUCH better off with McEichle? Yes. That is non-debatable and finishing 4th would be a downright joke.

 

For arguements sake the year Crosby went #1 Benoit Pouliet went #4. Sure Pitt probably would have been ok with Pouliet (hey that rhymes) but they sure were a hell of a lot better off with Sid.

We can't get too hung up on McEichel. I don't think we're bad enough to finish dead last and our chances of winning the lottery are 20% or less.

 

I want a McEichel but we don't NEED a McEichel. We need talent; if it's generational, thats just a bonus.