game discussion thread GDT: Toronto at Buffalo 9-21-13 at 7PM and Sabres at Leafs Sunday night

[LGR4GM]

I really like all the leaf fans saying Scott should be glad mclaren and Orr weren't in the game but next time they will... Yea you pos and next time ott and Kaleta will be on the ice as well so we can just have a party.

[dudacek]

The first two-hander was a solid defense mechanism. The second one, while Scott was tied up, is the worst kind of action you can take on the ice. a slash with intent to injure against a defenseless player? Cowardly ######. He fought Flynn because he had to.

 

This 100 % Don't blame him for the first one at all; it was self-defence and two minutes for slashing. The second was cowardly intent to injure and should be worth a suspension. Doubt it will be.

 

Its been asked upthread but not answered: where was Cody McCormick in all this? I'm not sure he saw the ice in the third period.

If he, Tropp and Foligno were all injured, that puts a big damper in a team that so far has been looking like it might be more fun to watch.

[TrueBlueGED]

Too bad I missed this game. Damn flooded basements. That was hockey, right there. Hockey is not a gentleman's game; your team mate goes down, then you need to react. The goons and fighters know there is NO reason to not skate away from a fight.

 

And when they see their boy's head slap the ice like that they MUST react.

 

Scott was doing what he's paid to do. Everyone else was covering their brothers. Someone else said it, but this is team bonding. All of those silly go kart trips and hang out sessions at The Pegula's, the early morning beach training...that's what it's for: you cover your brother.

 

When a group of guys give so much of a damn for each other they're willing to spill blood for them, then you have yourselves a team. And only real TEAMS get anywhere. I like it.

 

A willing participant in a fight got KO'd. This wasn't Chris Neil on Drury, or Mike Richards on Connolly, or Lucic on Miller, etc. I just don't see why this needed to cause our goon going after a star player. It's like when somebody has to fight for a clean hit just because they was a big collision. I'm pretty sure most here hate when that happens.

[Koomkie]

This 100 % Don't blame him for the first one at all; it was self-defence and two minutes for slashing. The second was cowardly intent to injure and should be worth a suspension. Doubt it will be.

 

Its been asked upthread but not answered: where was Cody McCormick in all this? I'm not sure he saw the ice in the third period.

If he, Tropp and Foligno were all injured, that puts a big damper in a team that so far has been looking like it might be more fun to watch.

did cody play? i dont remember seeing him at all. hmmm. also, why is adam still up? is it possible that he will be traded and they are keeping him up only to have scouts check him out? i just see no reason for him to be still playing.

[wjag]

Pretty interesting home and home. 30 shoot out shots night one, 32 penalties in one fight night two.

[LastPommerFan]

A willing participant in a fight got KO'd. This wasn't Chris Neil on Drury, or Mike Richards on Connolly, or Lucic on Miller, etc. I just don't see why this needed to cause our goon going after a star player. It's like when somebody has to fight for a clean hit just because they was a big collision. I'm pretty sure most here hate when that happens.

 

If you don't like this kind of hockey, indications are that you might want to unplug your TV for the next 2-3 years.

 

That said, the team with the last change really shouldn't be putting their star opposite Scott on a neutral zone face-off. That's just nuts.

[Koomkie]

probably should go here,

[nfreeman]

I'm most impressed with Miller going at it. He could have mailed it in and I wouldn't blame him considering it's preseason and he probably is a goner.

 

He's a good-to-great goalie with a lot of heart. I don't understand why so many here are so hot to trade him -- especially since Enroth looked pretty shaky to me on Sat. night.

[wjag]

He's a good-to-great goalie with a lot of heart. I don't understand why so many here are so hot to trade him -- especially since Enroth looked pretty shaky to me on Sat. night.

 

I'm in the keep him camp. Did it look like Miller has never thrown a hockey punch in his life save for those childhood ones with Drew? I'm with those who cite this as evidence he wants to stay. If I'm out of here, I'm not in that melee.

[darksabre]

 

 

There's a big difference between playing tough and the crap that went on last night. Yeah, let's keep fighting in hockey. Another player carted off the ice with a concussion and a sh!t load of penalties (and likely suspensions). Hockey? Nope, WWE. Slapshot IV.

 

I'll say it again, this is the game. If you don't like it go watch another sport.

[Eleven]

OK, so this is where it gets complicated. The folks over at Hockeyfights are saying that Kessel was interviewed post game. Kessel said that Scott skated up and told him that he was going to jump him. Scott told Kessel before the faceoff that he was going to jump him. I'm sure Scott expected Kessel to turtle. Well, he didn't. He went into lumberjack mode. Not sure I can blame him.

 

Also in the interview, Scott allegedly was talking some serious smack to the Toronto bench while Tropp was being tended to by the medical staff. Toronto coach put his finnesse line out there hoping to diffuse the situation, figuring if he didn't give Scott a target that tempers would die down.

 

I guess the whole damned thing backfired.

 

Backfired on Ottawa, too.

 

And looks like I picked the wrong night not to watch a preseason game.

 

My $0.02:

 

1. Clarkson will get ten games and Kessel will get zero.

 

2. As Jeremy White pointed out this morning, Miller was stupid to get into that fight, given his concussion history. He's a goalie; he easily could have ducked with no criticism whatsoever.

[darksabre]

probably should go here,

 

Kassian is a piece of zhit. Glad he's not on this team anymore.

[TrueBlueGED]

If you don't like this kind of hockey, indications are that you might want to unplug your TV for the next 2-3 years.

 

That said, the team with the last change really shouldn't be putting their star opposite Scott on a neutral zone face-off. That's just nuts.

 

Because there was nothing to respond to and having your best player against the other team's worst is a smart matchup? Tropp lost a fight he willingly participated in. Why in the hell does that necessitate our goon going after their best player?

[superdave]

A willing participant in a fight got KO'd. This wasn't Chris Neil on Drury, or Mike Richards on Connolly, or Lucic on Miller, etc. I just don't see why this needed to cause our goon going after a star player. It's like when somebody has to fight for a clean hit just because they was a big collision. I'm pretty sure most here hate when that happens.

 

This is kind of where I am, even though I appreciate fighting's role in the game. This didn't fit that need. A player gets beat in a fair fight, that should be the end of that. If Scott is going out to get even, that doesn't call for him going after a skilled player. Now, all Kessel had to do was ignore Scott, but he didn't. Going all lumberjack was way out of line. Then it's group hug time for everybody on the ice. All that being said, it's still entertaining to watch and who doesn't like a good goalie fight?

 

If you have never read the book "The Code: The Unwritten Rules of Fighting in the NHL" by Ross Bernstein, you should give it a look. It really explains the role of fighting an the code amongst the players.

[darksabre]

 

 

Because there was nothing to respond to and having your best player against the other team's worst is a smart matchup? Tropp lost a fight he willingly participated in. Why in the hell does that necessitate our goon going after their best player?

 

Because that's what you do. It sets a standard. If you hurt anyone on our team then we'll hurt someone on yours. No one is exempt.

[Robviously]

Because that's what you do. It sets a standard. If you hurt anyone on our team then we'll hurt someone on yours. No one is exempt.

And did we hurt anyone on their team?

[nfreeman]

I'm in the keep him camp. Did it look like Miller has never thrown a hockey punch in his life save for those childhood ones with Drew? I'm with those who cite this as evidence he wants to stay. If I'm out of here, I'm not in that melee.

 

I definitely think he wants to stay (OTOH I think Vanek wants to leave).

 

Because there was nothing to respond to and having your best player against the other team's worst is a smart matchup? Tropp lost a fight he willingly participated in. Why in the hell does that necessitate our goon going after their best player?

 

This is by-the-by, but I don't think Tropp lost that fight.

[dudacek]

In response to all the BS I'm reading about "the code."

1) the Sabres had just scored two quick ones. Devane was on the ice to start something. That is Caryle's MO.

2) Tropp, god love his grit, should have never answered the bell there.

3) Devane had clearly won the fight. Instead of letting up, he appeared to finish off a helpless opponent by driving his head into the ice. Hard to tell if it was deliberate or not, but you can see why the Sabres would be concerned.

4) Rolston's response was to send out Scott to start something. Carlyle, in his own words, sent out Kessel in the hopes of stopping the retribution from happening.

5) Scott warned Kessel and dropped his gloves, and goes after him, but never actually swings. Watch the tape closely. He grabs him, then drops him immediately, expecting Leafs to jump in, which they did.

 

Like it or not, hockey plays all around, according to "the code."

[Weave]

I'll throw this out there for conversation.

 

The Scott reaction was totally out of character it seems to me. And why would Tropp be willing to begin a fight with a much bigger, more experienced fighter that usually takes on heavyweights?

 

My working theory right now. Devane told Tropp he was going to jump him and Tropp reacted aggressively. Scott hears it and tries to get some measure of even up. TO coach puts his scoring line out and Scott gives Kessel the same warning that Devane gave Tropp.

 

Just a theory of course. The whole shebang seemed very out of character.

 

 

Aargh. Dudacheck beat me to a very similar point.

[spndnchz]

[That Aud Smell]

I see a lot of chatter as to whether Scott's response was needed.

 

To me, it turns on whether or not the guy who dropped Tropp (sorry, I don't know his name) instigated (not in the 2-minute minor sense) the scrap. If a guy above Tropp's weight class made the fight happen, then I understand the feeling that the Leafs needed to answer for it. There's the argument that Tropp, in any event, could've avoided engagement, hugged it out, and there is some validity to that. But I also have some respect for Tropp, as a marginal NHLer working to make a developmental roster as a 4th liner, taking the view that he doesn't have the luxury of "letting that cup pass".

 

Bottom line: If in the heat of battle, the team saw one of theirs (a light heavyweight) go down in a fight started by a bruising heavyweight, then I don't know how the team is supposed to respond other than they way in which they did.

[nfreeman]

Devane -- 6'5", 220

Tropp -- 6'0, 185

 

I might have to get a Tropp jersey.

[That Aud Smell]

2) Tropp, god love his grit, should have never answered the bell there.

 

Like it or not, hockey plays all around, according to "the code."

 

great post. agreed on #2, but i also understand why he did.

[Lumpy]

Because there was nothing to respond to and having your best player against the other team's worst is a smart matchup? Tropp lost a fight he willingly participated in. Why in the hell does that necessitate our goon going after their best player?

 

Tropp took it on, but I think he was called out by a much larger man after he had scored. I saw it a little differently which is why I am glad Scott called someone out. Kessel should have turtled and taken the beating his team was due for calling out a goal scorer on the prior play.

[darksabre]

 

And did we hurt anyone on their team?

 

Doesn't matter. It's about responding in the moment.