Confirmed: Sabres sign Leino

[SDS]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/22540-detroit-red-wings-sign-finnish-prospect-ville-leino

 

"Possessed with great skating and deft stickhandling, Leino, who is a natural centre but can also line up on the wing, has been described as more of a playmaker than sniper, who may need some work on the defensive side."

 

Quoting Bleacher Report isn't gong to help your case.

 

Leino was on a team stacked with centers. He became productive at wing and that appears to be a big crime.

 

I'm wondering if being put back at his desired (supposedly) position at Center might really be a boost to his attitude.

[beerme1]

I like Sully but dislike DeLuca. Are they in fact the same?

[Weave]

Friends of mine in Detroit are giving me a load of fecal matter. Supposedly Leino was moved out of Hockey Town because he tends to take shifts, and sometimes games off. I've never noticed it, but I only started watching him more carefully when he started giving us a hard time in the playoffs. I hope they are wrong or that he has stopped being "that guy".

[deluca67]

Friends of mine in Detroit are giving me a load of fecal matter. Supposedly Leino was moved out of Hockey Town because he tends to take shifts, and sometimes games off. I've never noticed it, but I only started watching him more carefully when he started giving us a hard time in the playoffs. I hope they are wrong or that he has stopped being "that guy".

He played 55 games in Detroit. How do you get a reputation after only 55 games?

[Weave]

He played 55 games in Detroit. How do you get a reputation after only 55 games?

 

I dunno. But I figure they know more about his play in Detroit than I do. And they are poeple with hockey opinions that I generally respect. So, there's that. :blush:

 

 

Take that to the bank !! :nana:

[BRH]

How long before a "Ville's People" banner goes up on the 300-level wall? :)

[Campy]

Friends of mine in Detroit are giving me a load of fecal matter. Supposedly Leino was moved out of Hockey Town because he tends to take shifts, and sometimes games off. I've never noticed it, but I only started watching him more carefully when he started giving us a hard time in the playoffs. I hope they are wrong or that he has stopped being "that guy".

 

He only played 55 NHL games in 2 years, and those were his first two years living abroad. It might be possible it was related to that. I HOPE it was related to that... or I at least hope he's over whatever caused them to say that. A couple of Philly guys I know said they thought he tended to hang on to the puck too long at times, but didn't say anything about taking shifts off.

 

It'll be interesting to see how he pans out.

[Campy]

Wings general manager Ken Holland said last year. "I don’t know why it didn’t happen. He had lots of opportunity, playing on the second power-play unit, playing with offensive players. The puck just didn’t go in the net."

 

“I really wasn’t enjoying hockey (in Detroit),” Leino added. “It was a battle everyday. I need to enjoy hockey. I need to have fun when I play. That’s when I play the best and that’s the important part. I’m enjoying it now and having fun out there.”

The Oakland Press

 

I hope he has a boatload of fun in Bflo!

[Braedon]

Friends of mine in Detroit are giving me a load of fecal matter. Supposedly Leino was moved out of Hockey Town because he tends to take shifts, and sometimes games off. I've never noticed it, but I only started watching him more carefully when he started giving us a hard time in the playoffs. I hope they are wrong or that he has stopped being "that guy".

 

 

He plays a season in the AHL in '08-09 and does well, gets called up and plays 20 games with the Wings. His first (and only) full season in '09-10 was where the trouble started, and they sent him off to Philly in February. That's what they're going on, 4 months of hockey for a relatively new player?

 

 

I think what also gets lost is that he played international hockey his entire life until reaching the AHL. Chalk it up to chemistry and culture shock of the big show.

[IKnowPhysics]

Good old fashioned risk aversion. If you wait for Richards to decide, Leino is gone and you very well could end up with nothing...

 

Good assessment, revealing sound strategy by the front office. Maybe even brilliant strategy.

 

The Brad Richards situation is a essentially a bidding process (where teams pay with money/contract length/ntc's, etc). Therefore, the mathematics of a bidding process or a competitive game apply, and can be described by the mathematics uncovered by John Nash (and made famous in the movie about John Nash, "A Beautiful Mind").

 

Analogously, Brad Richards is the stunning blonde amongst a group of good-looking brunettes, the most sought after by a group of suitors. They'll cockblock the ###### out of each other until the final suitor drastically overpays, the other teams miss out on the other free agents, and then nobody really wins. Meanwhile, the Sabres throw their name in the hat, see the competition for Richards, and realize that what's best for the Sabres AND the other teams is to not engage in the bidding war. The Sabres decide to go for the brunette (2nd best), and with no competition, they walk away with a contract in hand.

 

Now, it's unrealistic to say that a true Nash equilibrium exists in this case: there's no chance that Richards goes unsigned. But that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't make Ville Leino their top priority knowing that courting Brad Richards would be a dog fight with 10 other teams almost assuredly resulting in a stupid contract.

 

Bad foresight and pussying out OR excellent foresight and getting a player to do the job?

[IKnowPhysics]

Maybe invisible Ed Harris told Regier to sign Leino.

[beerme1]

I've seen enough of this guy getting points in the playoffs to not worry about him. My concern is the center position. I remember him in game six at the arena all too well actually. He will be a productive player in the playoffs guaranteed.

[Taro T]

Good assessment, revealing sound strategy by the front office. Maybe even brilliant strategy.

 

The Brad Richards situation is a essentially a bidding process (where teams pay with money/contract length/ntc's, etc). Therefore, the mathematics of a bidding process or a competitive game apply, and can be described by the mathematics uncovered by John Nash (and made famous in the movie about John Nash, "A Beautiful Mind").

 

Analogously, Brad Richards is the stunning blonde amongst a group of good-looking brunettes, the most sought after by a group of suitors. They'll cockblock the ###### out of each other until the final suitor drastically overpays, the other teams miss out on the other free agents, and then nobody really wins. Meanwhile, the Sabres throw their name in the hat, see the competition for Richards, and realize that what's best for the Sabres AND the other teams is to not engage in the bidding war. The Sabres decide to go for the brunette (2nd best), and with no competition, they walk away with a contract in hand.

 

Now, it's unrealistic to say that a true Nash equilibrium exists in this case: there's no chance that Richards goes unsigned. But that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't make Ville Leino their top priority knowing that courting Brad Richards would be a dog fight with 10 other teams almost assuredly resulting in a stupid contract.

 

Bad foresight and pussying out OR excellent foresight and getting a player to do the job?

Well, IF Leino pans out as a center, it could work out to be a brilliant strategy as some were claiming that TC was the 2nd best UFA center available. If Leino can play center, that clearly wasn't true.

 

If he doesn't pan out at center, it's still a reasonable choice but not nearly as brilliant.

[IKnowPhysics]

I'm not being harsh on Leino when I say this: he's considerably better than getting no player at all or a huge, recockulous contract, which is very likely what we would have ended up with in the Richards game.

 

I look forward to seeing Ville stepping up.

[IKnowPhysics]

Well, IF Leino pans out as a center, it could work out to be a brilliant strategy as some were claiming that TC was the 2nd best UFA center available. If Leino can play center, that clearly wasn't true.

 

If he doesn't pan out at center, it's still a reasonable choice but not nearly as brilliant.

 

 

That's a fair point. We're taking a small additional risk that he can play center that others teams maybe wouldn't take, and that does affect the math.

 

I hope our pro scouts are as talented as our amateur scouts.

[LGR4GM]

Heard the news while I drove to jersey and finally got to take a look at it: Leino is less likely to be dead all the time like TC has over the years. Hes younger than timmy and he has played good hockey over the last 18 months. I dislike the length of the contract and the caphit for a guy whos only had 18 months of really anything. I do not think this is a #1 center but a #3 definitely. He is a decent size but does not seem to hit a lot and he may not be very physical but I will wait til the seasons starts to see. Its a lot of money for a guy who could suck. I can't judge the move until this team plays but i am concerned for the center and am unsure if this was the best option. I am glad that if Richards will let NYR match any offer we said bite me, because thats ridiculous and I don't see tpegs jumping through hopes like that. Leino fills a need but i am curious to know if this was the best out there. In the last 2 weeks this team has gone from being predominately north American to having a Brazilian, German, and 2 fins (im counting our draft pick) so its interesting. I would assume the sabres did their homework and that this will work out but I feel uneasy. I do not hate this signing nor do I like it as a fan. I am literally right down the middle.

 

...its a whole lot better than if we had signed eric cole to what Montreal just did.

[bunomatic]

Good assessment, revealing sound strategy by the front office. Maybe even brilliant strategy.

 

The Brad Richards situation is a essentially a bidding process (where teams pay with money/contract length/ntc's, etc). Therefore, the mathematics of a bidding process or a competitive game apply, and can be described by the mathematics uncovered by John Nash (and made famous in the movie about John Nash, "A Beautiful Mind").

 

Analogously, Brad Richards is the stunning blonde amongst a group of good-looking brunettes, the most sought after by a group of suitors. They'll cockblock the ###### out of each other until the final suitor drastically overpays, the other teams miss out on the other free agents, and then nobody really wins. Meanwhile, the Sabres throw their name in the hat, see the competition for Richards, and realize that what's best for the Sabres AND the other teams is to not engage in the bidding war. The Sabres decide to go for the brunette (2nd best), and with no competition, they walk away with a contract in hand.

 

Now, it's unrealistic to say that a true Nash equilibrium exists in this case: there's no chance that Richards goes unsigned. But that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't make Ville Leino their top priority knowing that courting Brad Richards would be a dog fight with 10 other teams almost assuredly resulting in a stupid contract.

 

Bad foresight and pussying out OR excellent foresight and getting a player to do the job?

I agree.

[Lanny]

Now we've got 1.3 million in cap space to sign 3 RFA's.

 

The plan is not fully complete yet boys.

Kotalik & Morrisson have yet to be sent down, with them in the minors & their RFAs signed they're probably left with approx $2M in cap space. Not too bad, I'm cautiously optimistic about Leino playing center. Though I'm not sure what the alternatives would have been after they realized Richards was not an option. Would someone like Talbot have been a better alternative and Hecht as your 2nd line center? I doubt it.

 

If you're right and he ISN'T a center, then you suffer through this year, which you just stated you're willing to do, and you move him to wing next year when several contracts expire. I do believe he is a solid 2nd line player. He was very impressive against the Sabres in the playoffs this year. I kind of see this move as similar to the one the Sabres made way back when to bring Briere in.

and by next season Adam may be ready to step in as your 2nd line center, moving Leino back to wing.

[beerme1]

Would someone like Talbot have been a better alternative and Hecht as your 2nd line center? I doubt it.

 

Tee hee I wanted Talbot. As the 3rd line center. I still want him at what he signed for as my 3rd center. Oh well cant have evrything.

[waldo]

To summarize the posts i think were on the mark here.

 

1. there is a possible trade in the works?.Seems logical given the players they currently have and their need for a center and some grit.

 

2. they will try and convert him to center.Roy will always be a two at best. I like him as a three. (Leino sees the ice well and has excellent stick and passing skills plus he has pp skills) Vanek will make him instantly better on the 1 line, his Philly numbers will go up significantly.

 

3. i do not believe they will trade Ennis.. I would think Stafford ,Boyes,Kotilik, Hecht or Pom would be higher on that list if you are talking packaging one or two of them with Andre for a center.I would even have Roy in the deal for the right guy.I understand the lw rw concern but at this level it is not a problem.

 

I had the same reaction to others here when i heard of the trade. Then i asked myself would you rather have Leino or Pom. . Leino or Stafford? Leino or hecht? leino or Boyes.. My answer was Leino four times in a row. He is an upgrade.

[nfreeman]

And Talbot is Quintuple the hits and an agitator.

 

I have no problem with signing Lieno, but again....no instinctive grit in your top 3 lines. Lieno, Vanek, Stafford all would benefit from a Hartnell type in receiving more room and knowing they have a "wingman" out there. I don't know how brave Lieno will be centering Pominville and Hecht when he is coming from a situation where Hartnell had his back and Briere was a waterbug with fangs.

 

And to see Mancari go to Vancouver....I can only laugh!

 

Marcus Foligno...Vancouver Canuck 2016.

I share your concern about the lack of grit in the top 9 (other than Gerbe) and especially in the top 6. I continue to completely disagree with the Pyatt/Bernier/MacArthur/Paille theory, and frankly I think their play vitiates the theory with no further discussion needed.

 

I think Leino's that type of person. He's good down low. Stafford has built himself into being better down low. We could get into the whole power forward thing again, but Leino's a good piece of the puzzle. So r Kass an Foligno.

I don't think we'll see much from Kassian or Foligno this year, but hopefully next year, and in the meantime you are right about Leino and Stafford (and of course Vanek is good down low too).

 

But you see....the Sabres expect Lieno to take "the next step". But what happens when he lines up at center next to Hecht and Pominville, who are both more likely to hand you flowers from a tamborine at the airport than ride you into the boards? Briere and Hartnell are basically nastier, more talented versions of Pominville and Hecht. Now Lieno is expected to lead, but has no backup.

 

They still may make a deal for something. Again, not crying about any of the moves....They got a Daddy for the Blueline...I really think they need a few up front.

Can't argue with this. Still no one in the top 6 with an edge like Lucic or Marchand (or Recchi for that matter).

 

Stafford fought Chris Neil on instinct...now he says he doesn't need to worry about fighting.

That Stafford fight was an extreme circumstance, and Stafford (and most of his teammates) would do the same thing again if something that extreme happened again. (BTW Tallinder opting out of punishing Gomez in 2009 when Gomez hit Miller and injured him behind the net was unforgiveable and a big reason why I didn't care when the Sabres let him go).

 

I'm kind of glad they didn't land Richards, and while I think they definitely overpaid for Leino, it's to be expected. That's how things go on July 1st, and it's been that way for the past few years. If Leino says he's a center, and prefers center, then give him a shot. I like his skill set and think he'll fit in nicely with the current squad, especially if he can show he is capable of playing the middle.

I'm pretty close to 100% agreement on this. Richards' cap hit could end up being $8MM for the next 9 years by the time the bidding frenzy subsides (probably a bit less, but I bet it's in the neighborhood). The Sabres really needed to upgrade their top 6 and I think they did, albeit not as substantially as I would've liked.

 

You bring up some very valid concerns. However could it be as simple as they were positive BR wasn't coming here and they really wanted Leino in the top 6 moving forward? That's my perception, which is helped along by me loving Leino's game. If post season is where it matters, this guy has been clutch. 21 points in 19 games during their SC run last year? That eclipses everyone on our roster.

 

That said, you can't get past it being a gamble for that kind of money, and the only snapshot we have is with him on the wing. Either he sticks, or we have egg on our face.

Good post.

 

That link doesn't read the same way to me as it apparently reads to you. What I get out of it is essentially,"we could go up to Mississauga and put all our eggs in one basket that has alot of teams making a grab for it, or we could concentrate on plan B because it is more of a sure thing and we are less likely to end up with nothing". I read it as there was too much risk in walking away with nothing if we concentrate on Richards so we are changing focus to Leino, our best plan B.

I agree with this interpretation.

 

I don't see it as panic at all. It was a value decision. High risk, high reward vs. low risk, mediocre reward. Darcy has always been a low risk guy. He didn't panic at all, it was right in his comfort zone. Hopefully it works out.

...but not with this one. Although DR didn't go to Missassauga, he did speak with BR's agent. I think DR came away feeling that the Sabres didn't have a shot. It's quite possible that BR made it clear to all bidders that he was giving the Rangers the option to match any offer, or that BR just made it clear to the Sabres that he wasn't interested in joining them. If that's the case, DR had to move on.

[nfreeman]

If you listen to Lindy this morning on WGR, I think he foreshadowed this signing. Basically, he said in today's game, once you are in the offensive zone, a forward is pretty much a forward and they all basically play any position in the offensive zone, so position doesn't matter that much. Where position matters is in the defensive zone where the center is going to play down low in a more defensive role to create the outlet for the high forwards covering the points. So, if Leino is a defensively responsible forward and was playing this role in Philly last year (which apparently he was doing as we all know Briere's problems in the defensive zone), then assuming Leino can play center isn't that far off given his defensive responsibilities. Also, Finnish players and forwards in particular have a tendency to be very good defensively anyways, so it is reasonable to expect Leino can play the role of a center in the defensive zone.

 

Now, the question is, can he win faceoffs? If so, then he really is a center if he can win draws and play low defensively and be responsible in the defensive zone. If you buy what Lindy says, then forward positions don't really matter in the offensive zone, only in the defensive zone, so if Leino can win draws and play the role of a center in the defensive zone, then I see no issue with this signing and assuming he can play the role of a center. I understand the concern about putting a guy who hasn't officially played Center in his entire NHL career in that position, but it seems less of a risk in this particular instance with Leino than it does with say a Brad Boyes. Just my thought.

I got something different out of Lindy's interview. I heard him say that the reason they liked Leino was because he often played the role of center in the O zone (as opposed to what you are saying- there is no defined center role in the O zone). He was frequently the down low set up guy and played behind the net, a place typically for center to be.

 

My concerns with Leino are whether or not he can be the guy maintaining puck possession on zone entries. THAT is what this team was missing from it's "centers" last year. And it's what Briere's role was on the L-B-H line. If Leino can't be more effective than Boyes at controlling the puck on zone entry than this signing was a mistake. If he can do this well I think it will be OK.

Good hockey talk there boys.

 

RW Erik Cole signs with Montreal for the same $4.5M/year for four years.

 

Edit: Leino and Flash both 27 years old, Cole is 26.

Cole will be 33 in November.

 

Wasn't the "consensus" that this was an extremely weak UFA group?

 

Vanek

Roy

Ennis

Pominville

Boyes

Stafford

Gerbe

Hecht

Leino

 

Ninth best forward.

Nonsense. I'd put him at #2 (which is where he would've ranked on the Sabres in scoring this year). You seem to be forgetting the crucial nature of delivering in the playoffs -- understandable since almost all of the Sabres' forwards forget it as well.

 

http://bleacherrepor...ect-ville-leino

 

"Possessed with great skating and deft stickhandling, Leino, who is a natural centre but can also line up on the wing, has been described as more of a playmaker than sniper, who may need some work on the defensive side."

Thanks for the support, but if you quote bleacher report, you might as well quote the 15-year-olds on this board who think the Sabres can trade for Malkin or Getzlaf.

 

I hope Roy stays healthy all season.

Why? So he can "lead" them to last place again?

[Buffalo Sports Man]

I tentatively 'like' the signing of Ville Leino. He's a quality player who can play center (but I think that's a smoke screen so we don't get bent over by whoever we end up getting a number one center from later in the off season) and has been fantastic at times. I worry about how much we paid the guy and while I hope he plays up to it, I'm not assuming he's going to. He's not really young and he's going from playing the wing with Hartnell and Briere to centering, hypothetically, Boyes and Ennis. I'll like him a lot better on the wing though.

 

My hope is that this is Briere, a guy who hasn't hit his stride yet and that three years from now, we've got our second cup and we're calling Darcy a genius.

 

Also? When I heard the numbers on Talbot, I was hugely envious. He was who I wanted to be my #3 Center. But, get me a legit number one center and the Leino acquisition goes from a solid be to a solid A.

[Bullwinkle]

It seems inevitable (unless either Roy or Leino suddenly blossoms into a 1st line center - I'm not counting on that) that we will be making some sort of trade(s) in the next two years to get that center.

 

Given that being the case, we have 13 forwards:

 

Vanek

Roy

Ennis

Pominville

Boyes

Stafford

Gerbe

Hecht

Leino

Kotalik

McCormick

Gaustad

Kaleta

 

Seven Defensemen:

 

Myers

Weber

Ehrhoff

Regehr

Sekera

Gragnani

Leopold

 

Something's got to give. Darcy said he would give Kotalik a shot to make the team and I have to believe he will give him that chance. Benching players because of numbers is never a good thing - and sending some of them down to Rochester will cause re-entry problems for a few of them when called back up.

 

It's hard to trade guys who are only playing in Rochester, so I have to believe that if we do make a trade, it will be primarily for our top players. In this regard I would only have three guys who are off-limits: Ennis (his potential is too great), Myers (ditto), and Roy (we can't afford to lose our nr. 2 center just to get a nr. 1). Everyone else (including prospects) would be expendable IMO.

 

P.S. My gut tells me that if (somehow) we could land Parise (yes I know he's not a center), the Cup is ours!

[repster]

You forgot McCormick