Eleven Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Good old fashioned risk aversion. If you wait for Richards to decide, Leino is gone and you very well could end up with nothing... Right; doesn't make it a "panic signing." Connolly at 5x5 would have been a "panic signing." But at least you can hold your head high and tell your fans you gave it your best shot to attain the best UFA out there... instead of telling them you panicked and settled for Leino just so you could walk away with something. Even if we missed out on Leino and Richards said no, we'd be in the same position we are now: needing to trade if we want to acquire a #1 center. At least if we had met with Richards we had a shot at getting one. They did, apparently, give it a shot, and went in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I don't get the sense that Leino was ever Plan B. Now, Darcy could say stuff in a Press Conference, and we'll never really know the whole truth. However, it appears that they had Leino targeted very high on their board of guys they wanted to go after. They had to make a choice as to whether they wanted go after Richards with a huge offer and wait to see if he would choose them (which wasn't very certain as to whether they would get him or not) or go after a player that they really wanted and knew they could get. It is very likely that they could have lost both Richards and Leino if they put their full effort on Richards and he rejected them and Leino chose another team because Buffalo made him wait and he had a better offer. I have no problems with Buffalo not going after Richards and signing Leino if they felt that strongly about going after Leino (which the comments from Darcy would indicate). Who knows what's true or not, but I would imagine that when Darcy got the contract complete with Pat Morris on Cody McCormick, he probably asked what it would take to get Richards and they probably discussed it internally before deciding to take a strong run at Leino. That's my guess, but who really knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Good old fashioned risk aversion. If you wait for Richards to decide, Leino is gone and you very well could end up with nothing... No. Sabrespace decided that the only worthy target at forward was Richards. In fact, he was the most important player that the Sabres could get. Without a center twice as good as the best center that the Stanley Cup Champions iced in the finals, the Sabres have absolutely no chance at becoming Stanley Cup Champions. Signing no-one and putting Adam in a full time centerman's role starting with the game in Germany would have been better than signing anyone other than Richards./grumpiness-induced-grumpiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 But at least you can hold your head high and tell your fans you gave it your best shot to attain the best UFA out there... instead of telling them you panicked and settled for Leino just so you could walk away with something. Even if we missed out on Leino and Richards said no, we'd be in the same position we are now: needing to trade if we want to acquire a #1 center. At least if we had met with Richards we had a shot at getting one. I don't see it as panic at all. It was a value decision. High risk, high reward vs. low risk, mediocre reward. Darcy has always been a low risk guy. He didn't panic at all, it was right in his comfort zone. Hopefully it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Right; doesn't make it a "panic signing." Connolly at 5x5 would have been a "panic signing." They did, apparently, give it a shot, and went in a different direction. No, they didn't "give it a shot." It's quoted in every article regarding the Leino signing. They chose NOT to meet with Richards and his agent because they felt they would miss out on Leino... that is panicking to the fullest extent as far as I'm concerned. Another makeshift center to add to a roster full of makeshift centers instead of pitching your offer to the best REAL center available... must be they weren't very confident in their "hockey heaven" sales pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalohsix Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Where are you hearing that? Because while I'm not thrilled with this signing, what you wrote is in complete conflict with everything reported. E.g., http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2011/07/regier-sabres-planned-to-meet-richards-but-couldnt-let-leino-slip-away.html Is what you're "hearing" another voice inside your head? not to be worked up over the Richards slip, I feel they took the easier path with the time they had but I agree it wasn't because of panic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well I think we're all a bit disappointed at not having Richards on the team. Leino...middle aged, moving to his prime, hasn't played center in years, seems to do well in playoffs. Clearly he was Plan B. He was a $800k player last year, now he's over 4 mil for 6 years. Definitely overpaid, but I can understand why they did what they did. Regardless of the reason we didn't get Richards, it was necessary to move to Plan B as fast as possible since several teams were sniffing around him. To beat the others to this "Plan B" we had to overpay - both in $ and in years. So where does that leave us? I'll tell you - with too many forwards and no clear nr. 1 centerman. Of course these things can be rectified. But it will cost. Rather than a cost of $60 mil or so on Richards, the cost will now be Ennis, Myers, Gerbe, Roy, Vanek, - in any combination. I would REALLY hate to lose Ennis and I doubt if they would trade Myers. But however you cut it, we will pay in talent. So yes, a trade is coming...next day...next week...next month...next year...sometime. Meanwhile the competition is incredibly tight at wing and Rochester will be well stocked for a Caulder Cup run, methinks. Patience...hold on...we may not be exactly heading in the right direction, but the ship is now out of the harbor and under full sail. The course corrections should make for a great ride in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well I think we're all a bit disappointed at not having Richards on the team. Leino...middle aged, moving to his prime, hasn't played center in years, seems to do well in playoffs. Clearly he was Plan B. He was a $800k player last year, now he's over 4 mil for 6 years. Definitely overpaid, but I can understand why they did what they did. Regardless of the reason we didn't get Richards, it was necessary to move to Plan B summa ###### celeretate (as fast as possible) since several teams were sniffing around him. To beat the others to this "Plan B" we had to overpay - both in $ and in years. So where does that leave us? I'll tell you - with too many forwards and no clear nr. 1 centerman. Of course these things can be rectified. But it will cost. Rather than a cost of $60 mil or so on Richards, the cost will now be Ennis, Myers, Gerbe, Roy, Vanek, - in any combination. I would REALLY hate to lose Ennis and I doubt if they would trade Myers. But however you cut it, we will pay in talent. So yes, a trade is coming...next day...next week...next month...next year...sometime. Meanwhile the competition is incredibly tight at wing and Rochester will be well stocked for a Caulder Cup run, methinks. Patience...hold on...we may not be exactly heading in the right direction, but the ship is now out of the harbor and under full sail. The course corrections should be a great ride in the coming months. I wouldn't count your chickens on a trade. Other than a salary dump or two, I highly doubt we see a #1 center brought in via trade. Maybe Darcy will shut me up in a week or two but I don't see Ottawa giving up Spezza (when they just got Filatov presumably to play with Spezza and perhaps get himself back on the rgiht track), and even if they WERE willing to trade, I'm not sure it's worth giving up our prospects for one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Where are you hearing that? Because while I'm not thrilled with this signing, what you wrote is in complete conflict with everything reported. E.g., http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2011/07/regier-sabres-planned-to-meet-richards-but-couldnt-let-leino-slip-away.html Is what you're "hearing" another voice inside your head? I was referring to listening and reading fan's/media's takes on the signing. If Leino was indeed "plan b" than my concerns about Pegula retaining Darcy Regier were justified today. Leino comes in as what? The 8th or 9th best forward? It just doesn't make any sense. They had all off-season to formulate a plan. The last week things seemed to go perfectly. I find it hard to believe that they came up with Leino as option #2 at center. Something else had to happen. Maybe a trade they thought they had in place fell through. I don't know what it was. As much as I dislike Regier, even I can't believe his lists of available centers went Richards than Leino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 One way to look at it is we let Timmy walk and brought in Leino to replace him. Same $4.5 million salary for each player. So is Leino an upgrade over Timmy? I think "yes" based on recent playoff production. While Leino isn't uber-physical, he certainly hits more than Timmy. Will Leino be a good defensive center? That I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I was referring to listening and reading fan's/media's takes on the signing. If Leino was indeed "plan b" than my concerns about Pegula retaining Darcy Regier were justified today. Leino comes in as what? The 8th or 9th best forward? It just doesn't make any sense. They had all off-season to formulate a plan. The last week things seemed to go perfectly. I find it hard to believe that they came up with Leino as option #2 at center. Something else had to happen. Maybe a trade they thought they had in place fell through. I don't know what it was. As much as I dislike Regier, even I can't believe his lists of available centers went Richards than Leino. Frankly Connolly is higher on my list than Leino, if for no other reason than he ACTUALLY plays center... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalohsix Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well I think we're all a bit disappointed at not having Richards on the team. Leino...middle aged, moving to his prime, hasn't played center in years, seems to do well in playoffs. Clearly he was Plan B. He was a $800k player last year, now he's over 4 mil for 6 years. Definitely overpaid, but I can understand why they did what they did. Regardless of the reason we didn't get Richards, it was necessary to move to Plan B as fast as possible since several teams were sniffing around him. To beat the others to this "Plan B" we had to overpay - both in $ and in years. So where does that leave us? I'll tell you - with too many forwards and no clear nr. 1 centerman. Of course these things can be rectified. But it will cost. Rather than a cost of $60 mil or so on Richards, the cost will now be Ennis, Myers, Gerbe, Roy, Vanek, - in any combination. I would REALLY hate to lose Ennis and I doubt if they would trade Myers. But however you cut it, we will pay in talent. So yes, a trade is coming...next day...next week...next month...next year...sometime. Meanwhile the competition is incredibly tight at wing and Rochester will be well stocked for a Caulder Cup run, methinks. Patience...hold on...we may not be exactly heading in the right direction, but the ship is now out of the harbor and under full sail. The course corrections should make for a great ride in the coming months. uneasy feelings there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 This report mentions the Sabres as one of several teams meeting with Richards today. Must be in error, I'm guessing. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/cgy110701.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 uneasy feelings there Same here, in a way. I'm just glad I'm not the one who is going to get accused of starting something this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Good old fashioned risk aversion. If you wait for Richards to decide, Leino is gone and you very well could end up with nothing... Which was the better option. When Richards became unrealistic to them they should have called it a day and regrouped. I wish they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I was referring to listening and reading fan's/media's takes on the signing. If Leino was indeed "plan b" than my concerns about Pegula retaining Darcy Regier were justified today. Leino comes in as what? The 8th or 9th best forward? It just doesn't make any sense. They had all off-season to formulate a plan. The last week things seemed to go perfectly. I find it hard to believe that they came up with Leino as option #2 at center. Something else had to happen. Maybe a trade they thought they had in place fell through. I don't know what it was. As much as I dislike Regier, even I can't believe his lists of available centers went Richards than Leino. If you listen to Lindy this morning on WGR, I think he foreshadowed this signing. Basically, he said in today's game, once you are in the offensive zone, a forward is pretty much a forward and they all basically play any position in the offensive zone, so position doesn't matter that much. Where position matters is in the defensive zone where the center is going to play down low in a more defensive role to create the outlet for the high forwards covering the points. So, if Leino is a defensively responsible forward and was playing this role in Philly last year (which apparently he was doing as we all know Briere's problems in the defensive zone), then assuming Leino can play center isn't that far off given his defensive responsibilities. Also, Finnish players and forwards in particular have a tendency to be very good defensively anyways, so it is reasonable to expect Leino can play the role of a center in the defensive zone. Now, the question is, can he win faceoffs? If so, then he really is a center if he can win draws and play low defensively and be responsible in the defensive zone. If you buy what Lindy says, then forward positions don't really matter in the offensive zone, only in the defensive zone, so if Leino can win draws and play the role of a center in the defensive zone, then I see no issue with this signing and assuming he can play the role of a center. I understand the concern about putting a guy who hasn't officially played Center in his entire NHL career in that position, but it seems less of a risk in this particular instance with Leino than it does with say a Brad Boyes. Just my thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 The more I hear the more it seems like Leino was a panic signing and they actually didn't have a "plan B." They went from targeting the premiere free agent center to signing Hecht-lite? They would have been better off not signing anyone today. Now they are in a Cap position that seems completely unnecessary. Here they are over the Cap and they have only one center (Roy) on the roster of any quality. The Sabres would be in a better position with that $4+ mil off the books and available if a actual center becomes available. This may be the worst free agent signing Regier has ever made. They are only over the cap if they plan on keeping Kotalik and Morrisonn on the active roster. Both are Ra-cha-cha bound so in reality they aren't over the cap. The Sabres would NOT be in better shape w/out Leino as there IS an ACTUAL center not named Richards currently available. And you would have an aneurysm if they brought THAT guy in. I am not overjoyed at the signing, but I do think Leino is a solid 2nd liner and if you would have told me 1 month ago that the Sabres would bring in 2 D-men and a "center" not named Connolly I would have been quite pleased. Had you told me that in January, I'd've told you you were smoking something. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 If you listen to Lindy this morning on WGR, I think he foreshadowed this signing. Basically, he said in today's game, once you are in the offensive zone, a forward is pretty much a forward and they all basically play any position in the offensive zone, so position doesn't matter that much. Where position matters is in the defensive zone where the center is going to play down low in a more defensive role to create the outlet for the high forwards covering the points. So, if Leino is a defensively responsible forward and was playing this role in Philly last year (which apparently he was doing as we all know Briere's problems in the defensive zone), then assuming Leino can play center isn't that far off given his defensive responsibilities. Also, Finnish players and forwards in particular have a tendency to be very good defensively anyways, so it is reasonable to expect Leino can play the role of a center in the defensive zone. Now, the question is, can he win faceoffs? If so, then he really is a center if he can win draws and play low defensively and be responsible in the defensive zone. If you buy what Lindy says, then forward positions don't really matter in the offensive zone, only in the defensive zone, so if Leino can win draws and play the role of a center in the defensive zone, then I see no issue with this signing and assuming he can play the role of a center. I understand the concern about putting a guy who hasn't officially played Center in his entire NHL career in that position, but it seems less of a risk in this particular instance with Leino than it does with say a Brad Boyes. Just my thought. Than why even consider Richards in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 I was referring to listening and reading fan's/media's takes on the signing. If Leino was indeed "plan b" than my concerns about Pegula retaining Darcy Regier were justified today. Leino comes in as what? The 8th or 9th best forward? It just doesn't make any sense. They had all off-season to formulate a plan. The last week things seemed to go perfectly. I find it hard to believe that they came up with Leino as option #2 at center. Something else had to happen. Maybe a trade they thought they had in place fell through. I don't know what it was. As much as I dislike Regier, even I can't believe his lists of available centers went Richards than Leino. I like Leino but wasn't expecting him and didn't want and certainly don't need him. However he is a skilled player without a doubt and I think you may not be paying attention when you make a statement like 8th or 9th best forward. Consensus had him as top 5 ufa. That is irrelevant to me as I still wasn't looking for him. I am perplexed right now but have to, HAVE to believe there is something else happening over the summer for a 1b type center. Unless this guy really can play center which after seeing Boyes come in and play very well at wing and then have to play center and disappear, we can't afford that with Ville. All my eggs were in the Richards basket. It just made too much sense and as I had stated somewhere, if we signed him today I felt like we get to play in three of the next five cups so what ever we would have paid would have been worth it. Gotta move on now though. Next season is going to be a #### load of fun with Regehr, Erhoff and Leino aboard! We will not see guys like Danny Briere hanging out at the side of our net all game. Or skating behind Miller in the crease and smacking the back of his head along the way. Welcome to Buffalo Robyn Regehr. Get em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Can't we all just be happy that the Sabres are players for once and stop overanalyzing this signing? It's getting a little ridiculous in here. HEAR! HEAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 They are only over the cap if they plan on keeping Kotalik and Morrisonn on the active roster. Both are Ra-cha-cha bound so in reality they aren't over the cap. The Sabres would NOT be in better shape w/out Leino as there IS an ACTUAL center not named Richards currently available. And you would have an aneurysm if they brought THAT guy in. I am not overjoyed at the signing, but I do think Leino is a solid 2nd liner and if you would have told me 1 month ago that the Sabres would bring in 2 D-men and a "center" not named Connolly I would have been quite pleased. Had you told me that in January, I'd've told you you were smoking something. ;) We talked about this the other day. Sign the second d-man and scratch together a group of centers. Which I would have been fine with. I'm not even concerned that they gave up on Richards without even trying. I get that. This move makes absolutely no sense. He's not a center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braedon Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Frankly Connolly is higher on my list than Leino, if for no other reason than he ACTUALLY plays center... Yeah but I wouldn't consider TC a better center just because he played it. The biggest qualities I look for in a center are: 1) Playmaking ability (Leino by a mile) 2) Face offs (Leino 57.4% to TC 45%) 3) Speed to turn up ice and back check (TC by a mile, and my only concern with his move to C) Add in the fact that Leino is rarely injured where as TC is ALWAYS injured, it's not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 If you listen to Lindy this morning on WGR, I think he foreshadowed this signing. Basically, he said in today's game, once you are in the offensive zone, a forward is pretty much a forward and they all basically play any position in the offensive zone, so position doesn't matter that much. Where position matters is in the defensive zone where the center is going to play down low in a more defensive role to create the outlet for the high forwards covering the points. So, if Leino is a defensively responsible forward and was playing this role in Philly last year (which apparently he was doing as we all know Briere's problems in the defensive zone), then assuming Leino can play center isn't that far off given his defensive responsibilities. Also, Finnish players and forwards in particular have a tendency to be very good defensively anyways, so it is reasonable to expect Leino can play the role of a center in the defensive zone. Now, the question is, can he win faceoffs? If so, then he really is a center if he can win draws and play low defensively and be responsible in the defensive zone. If you buy what Lindy says, then forward positions don't really matter in the offensive zone, only in the defensive zone, so if Leino can win draws and play the role of a center in the defensive zone, then I see no issue with this signing and assuming he can play the role of a center. I understand the concern about putting a guy who hasn't officially played Center in his entire NHL career in that position, but it seems less of a risk in this particular instance with Leino than it does with say a Brad Boyes. Just my thought. I got something different out of Lindy's interview. I heard him say that the reason they liked Leino was because he often played the role of center in the O zone (as opposed to what you are saying- there is no defined center role in the O zone). He was frequently the down low set up guy and played behind the net, a place typically for center to be. My concerns with Leino are whether or not he can be the guy maintaining puck possession on zone entries. THAT is what this team was missing from it's "centers" last year. And it's what Briere's role was on the L-B-H line. If Leino can't be more effective than Boyes at controlling the puck on zone entry than this signing was a mistake. If he can do this well I think it will be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 To stir the pot: Tomas Fleischmann signs with Colorado, also for $4.5M per year (although for four years). Who got the better LW for $4.5M per? RW Erik Cole signs with Montreal for the same $4.5M/year for four years. Edit: Leino and Flash both 27 years old, Cole is 26. Cole http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8467396 Flash http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470039 Leino http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8474551 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Than why even consider Richards in the first place? Easy. You've got the money and he's the best cat out there. See if you can take a run at him with the understanding that if you can't, you definitely do not want to lose Leino as he's your top realistic target. I do buy Darcy's statement that they got into a time pressure as it is 10:22pm and Richards still has not agreed to a deal with anyone, and by this point, you could lose Leino, a guy that you really want anyway. Given the long line of teams that went in to visit Richards today, you know his decision was going to drag out into tomorrow at least, so why wait on him when you can go after a guy that you really want anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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