Tage Thompson is a super star

[Brawndo]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Ya, like other posters when I bring up the early defensive metrics and selke talk around Jack, it just gets the “nah, no thanks, I don’t like that so no” response. I’m just relaying what the hockey world outside of sabrespace is saying. Go look at the numbers on that team: he’s their best player, both ways, a team near the top of the league. 

If you want to disregard it, be my guest. Frankly it has nothing to do with me “liking” Eichel as this isn’t even MY argument. If framing it as something I’m saying just because I’m biased makes it sit better, again, go ahead 

Im not going to flood threads with Jack’s numbers. The deeper dives are out there if anyone wants them. Not my fight.

His Analytics absolutely back this up, He has been excellent for Vegas 

[tom webster]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@tom webster would say he finally matured into his body and finally was playing for a coach who gave him the right opportunity at the right time.

I would and I find it interesting that the Sabres find it more beneficial to have kept Krebs up with the big club practicing rather than playing with Rochester. 
I am telling you, player development will undergo a major change in the coming years.

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

Dunno if I’d call it “insignificant”. Vegas still got the net talent increase in the trade - Eichel is in the running for MVP and Selke. No one we have quite matches his overall game, yet. The thought of an Eichel-Thompson 1/2 combo, in a world where we have a bought-in Eichel, is still salivating imo. (Not quite) Crosby / Malkin type stuff. I’d see long term contention in our future. Tuch is the only guy there we wouldn’t have, so, again, leaving aside chemistry concerns, the world in which things never got out of hand with Eichel ala Marvel’s “What if?” is still fun to think about. 

Theres lots of butterfly effect type stuff like “maybe Thompson doesn’t ascend if he’s playing behind Jack” (I don’t really buy into this personally, necessarily, as its on coaching to make sure there isn’t an environment for some reason where only one player can produce) but it’s certainly valid. Who knows how things go different with even one change. But in a vacuum, Thompson-Eichel-Cozens is an insane C core, flipping out Mittelstadt instead

Whenever the topic of Jack comes up there is a reflexive response by many Sabre fans that color their ability to acknowledge his talent and actual play. He is now the best player on a serious cup contending team. The Jack and organization story/relationship is more complicated than the simplified version that many want to cling to. Could the relationship have been salvaged? Maybe not. But as you point out the thought of a Thompson-Eichel-Cozens center spine would have been an exciting idea to consider. Jack is one of the best players in the league. And many fans are bothered by that reality because they believe they were unfairly jilted. Resentments are difficult to let go. 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Whenever the topic of Jack comes up there is a reflexive response by many Sabre fans that color their ability to acknowledge his talent and actual play. He is now the best player on a serious cup contending team. The Jack and organization story/relationship is more complicated than the simplified version that many want to cling to. Could the relationship have been salvaged? Maybe not. But as you point out the thought of a Thompson-Eichel-Cozens center spine would have been an exciting idea to consider. Jack is one of the best players in the league. And many fans are bothered by that reality because they believe they were unfairly jilted. Resentments are difficult to let go. 

Jilted is the wrong word. Disrespected is the correct word.

And while he disrespected one of the most loyal fan bases in team sports history, most of us have no problem acknowledging his awesome hockey talent, which has always been quite obvious, so I’d appreciate it if you could refrain from insulting my intelligence by suggesting I’m unable to delineate between my respect for his talent and my disdain for his character, which goes a lot farther than some post game remarks he made out of frustration in his first game back. A lot farther.

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

I would and I find it interesting that the Sabres find it more beneficial to have kept Krebs up with the big club practicing rather than playing with Rochester. 
I am telling you, player development will undergo a major change in the coming years.

I doubt it.  Even if you are correct that physical maturity (which I somewhat agree with) is more important than skills/hockey IQ experience in development of a player, teams will still need to warehouse young players somewhere as they mature.  

The salary cap and shorter team control has changed player development.  More younger players are getting NHL opportunities because of their cheap contracts.  I do agree that teams are more likely to leave a not fully ready youngster in the NHL to practice with NHL players like we do with Krebs.  Still I think spending tome in the AHL helped both Mitts and Thompson.  Certainly it also helped JJP and Quinn.  Maybe it’s just giving a young skilled player confidence they can succeed in pro hockey. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Jilted is the wrong word. Disrespected is the correct word.

And while he disrespected one of the most loyal fan bases in team sports history, most of us have no problem acknowledging his awesome hockey talent, which has always been quite obvious, so I’d appreciate it if you could refrain from insulting my intelligence by suggesting I’m unable to delineate between my respect for his talent and my disdain for his character, which goes a lot farther than some post game remarks he made out of frustration in his first game back. A lot farther.

He didn't disrespect the fan base. You keep saying that is if it is a mantra. After a game in which he was incessantly booed he expressed his displeasure at the fans who booed him. He was candid about how he felt. And that bothers you. The paying customers pay for their seats and are entitled to boo. However, the whining crybabies who booed acted as if they were personally insulted when he expressed exactly how he felt. If you throw shiiit then don't complain when shiiit gets thrown back at you.  

I don't recall one former teammate who publicly or anonymously disparaged him after he left. While you and others are constantly smearing his character as if it is an established fact, it is not. I'm not saying that he wasn't happy with the situation he was in because he wasn't. I'm not even saying that he was a perfect teammate because he wasn't. But your characterization of him is not fair. He's gone. Get over it. 

[K-9]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He didn't disrespect the fan base. You keep saying that is if it is a mantra. After a game in which he was incessantly booed he expressed his displeasure at the fans who booed him. He was candid about how he felt. And that bothers you. The paying customers pay for their seats and are entitled to boo. However, the whining crybabies who booed acted as if they were personally insulted when he expressed exactly how he felt. If you throw shiiit then don't complain when shiiit gets thrown back at you.  

I don't recall one former teammate who publicly or anonymously disparaged him after he left. While you and others are constantly smearing his character as if it is an established fact, it is not. I'm not saying that he wasn't happy with the situation he was in because he wasn't. I'm not even saying that he was a perfect teammate because he wasn't. But your characterization of him is not fair. He's gone. Get over it. 

Like I said, his disrespectful post game comments from last season are the LEAST of it. He flat out lied about the Sabres medical team, including the preeminent specialist in the field. Other people in both the PSE offices and the arena have mentioned what a surly cuss he was. That’s first hand from people I know personally. Shall I revisit the Craig Rivet Junior Sabres story on Long Island? 

Get over it, my ass. Every time anyone dares say a bad word about Eichel, you come running to his defense when the ONLY defense you can offer is he’s a great player. News flash: being a great player does not exempt him from being a first class A hole. Perhaps you should take your own advice and get over it yourself. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

He didn't disrespect the fan base. You keep saying that is if it is a mantra. After a game in which he was incessantly booed he expressed his displeasure at the fans who booed him. He was candid about how he felt. And that bothers you. The paying customers pay for their seats and are entitled to boo. However, the whining crybabies who booed acted as if they were personally insulted when he expressed exactly how he felt. If you throw shiiit then don't complain when shiiit gets thrown back at you.  

I don't recall one former teammate who publicly or anonymously disparaged him after he left. While you and others are constantly smearing his character as if it is an established fact, it is not. I'm not saying that he wasn't happy with the situation he was in because he wasn't. I'm not even saying that he was a perfect teammate because he wasn't. But your characterization of him is not fair. He's gone. Get over it. 

I kind of disagree with this.

He definitely took shots at the fan base after he returned and was booed.

And I definitely have heard negative public statements about Eichel from people inside the NHL community.

[Quint]

I  feel rewarded for being a fan of Tage Thompson from the beginning of the O'Reilly trade. I thought he had tools and he did great with the Amerks.  I knew about his booming one-timers and wristers but I had no idea he had such skilled hands, especially different from any other player because of his size, reach and amazing coordination. Check :11 of this amazing clip and slow it down maximum to witness the magic. First he steals it on the forehand and quickly toedrags to the backhand to get it out of reach of the defense. Then the forehand deke of the goalie to the backhand move to the forehand tuck-in. All in a matter of a couple seconds. Look at all the ground he covered so quickly. Although I don't know if Tage is a superstar yet, I feel privileged to witness his development. He's truly spectacular and fun to watch. I like it now that more broadcasters are announcing the mph on Tage's shots...including Rob Ray who now seems to do it with every one-timer.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Quint

[sabresparaavida]

Tage is now tied for 2nd in the league in goals (with Jason Robertson) and is 3rd in points (between the Edmonton Duo)

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

Tage is now tied for 2nd in the league in goals (with Jason Robertson) and is 3rd in points (between the Edmonton Duo)

Amazing. I love it.

 

[Kr632]

On 12/10/2022 at 4:22 PM, K-9 said:

Like I said, his disrespectful post game comments from last season are the LEAST of it. He flat out lied about the Sabres medical team, including the preeminent specialist in the field. Other people in both the PSE offices and the arena have mentioned what a surly cuss he was. That’s first hand from people I know personally. Shall I revisit the Craig Rivet Junior Sabres story on Long Island? 

Get over it, my ass. Every time anyone dares say a bad word about Eichel, you come running to his defense when the ONLY defense you can offer is he’s a great player. News flash: being a great player does not exempt him from being a first class A hole. Perhaps you should take your own advice and get over it yourself. 

I'm treated by some of the same Dr and looking at same surgery.  Some patients were there when he was. His name has never come up with any of the medical professionals but I've overheard stories of a guy throwing a tantrum in the office yelling, throwing things and slamming doors. Then speeding away in a loud sports car. Any time someone get out of line the stories about him start up again. Patients that were there at the time will chime in and say his name and continue with stories on how much of an ass he is. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Kr632

[Kr632]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:27 PM, JohnC said:

He didn't disrespect the fan base. You keep saying that is if it is a mantra. After a game in which he was incessantly booed he expressed his displeasure at the fans who booed him. He was candid about how he felt. And that bothers you. The paying customers pay for their seats and are entitled to boo. However, the whining crybabies who booed acted as if they were personally insulted when he expressed exactly how he felt. If you throw shiiit then don't complain when shiiit gets thrown back at you.  

I don't recall one former teammate who publicly or anonymously disparaged him after he left. While you and others are constantly smearing his character as if it is an established fact, it is not. I'm not saying that he wasn't happy with the situation he was in because he wasn't. I'm not even saying that he was a perfect teammate because he wasn't. But your characterization of him is not fair. He's gone. Get over it. 

Didn't Gionta and rivet blast him? I thought current players also said something about the clique and the locker room being a lot more close knit after he left(current players didn't name names iirc)

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, Kr632 said:

Didn't Gionta and rivet blast him? I thought current players also said something about the clique and the locker room being a lot more close knit after he left(current players didn't name names iirc)

Yes, he made some indirect comments about the locker room having factions. Jack certainly wasn't a chummy guy. So what? That doesn't mean that he was a toxic figure on this team as many try to make him out to be. He wanted out just as ROR, Risto, Reinhart, Ullmark, Hall, Montour etc. wanted out. What's evident is that systemic losing is corrosive. That should be a motivating factor giving urgency to building a winning team. The Jack saga is over for the player and for the organization. 

[Doohickie]

47 minutes ago, Kr632 said:

On 12/10/2022 at 3:22 PM, K-9 said:

Like I said, his disrespectful post game comments from last season are the LEAST of it. He flat out lied about the Sabres medical team, including the preeminent specialist in the field. Other people in both the PSE offices and the arena have mentioned what a surly cuss he was. That’s first hand from people I know personally. Shall I revisit the Craig Rivet Junior Sabres story on Long Island? 

Get over it, my ass. Every time anyone dares say a bad word about Eichel, you come running to his defense when the ONLY defense you can offer is he’s a great player. News flash: being a great player does not exempt him from being a first class A hole. Perhaps you should take your own advice and get over it yourself. 

I'm treated by some of the same Dr and looking at same surgery.  Some patients were there when he was. His name has never come up with any of the medical professionals but I've overheard stories of a guy throwing a tantrum in the office yelling, throwing things and slamming doors. Then speeding away in a loud sports car. Any time someone get out of line the stories about him start up again. Patients that were there at the time will chime in and say his name and continue with stories on how much of an ass he is. 

On the other hand, based on Jack's results thus far, he was right.

[PromoTheRobot]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Yes, he made some indirect comments about the locker room having factions. Jack certainly wasn't a chummy guy. So what? That doesn't mean that he was a toxic figure on this team as many try to make him out to be. He wanted out just as ROR, Risto, Reinhart, Ullmark, Hall, Montour etc. wanted out. What's evident is that systemic losing is corrosive. That should be a motivating factor giving urgency to building a winning team. The Jack saga is over for the player and for the organization. 

Not toxic, but not conducive to team building either. For whatever reason, the Sabres improved greatly once he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe.

Edited December 14, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[triumph_communes]

It’s no surprise Eichel is a Boston douche rag. He lives up to the stereotype. 
 

It’s nice that Thompson is fighting with  Matthews for the Phoenix based player stereotypes. Guy had a terrible injury problem while trying to break into the league and was ragged by every fan because they reminded him of ROR, yet despite all that broke through. He’s the superstar we want on the team. Not Eichel. 

[Doohickie]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Not toxic, but not conducive to team building either. For whatever reason, the Sabres improved greatly once he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe.

I had a whole post composed but I decided not to put it in a Tage thread.  Regardless of the past, the team's current leaders, whether lettered or not, are concerned with the success of the Sabres and how they can contribute to that success.  Tage is a big part of that but I sense his leadership is not anything to do with power and everything to do with service.  It's part of what makes him a star imo.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Not toxic, but not conducive to team building either. For whatever reason, the Sabres improved greatly once he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe.

He wanted out and the new GM wanted him out. He ended up in Vegas, got the surgery he wanted and regained his health and form. Now he is the best player on a cup contending team. It worked out well for all the parties involved. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I had a whole post composed but I decided not to put it in a Tage thread.  Regardless of the past, the team's current leaders, whether lettered or not, are concerned with the success of the Sabres and how they can contribute to that success.  Tage is a big part of that but I sense his leadership is not anything to do with power and everything to do with service.  It's part of what makes him a star imo.

Coaching and management play a role too. Eichel was inevitable the way he was anointed the savior. You have a player who's been "the guy" his entire life. How else does someone like that act?

This Sabres roster is the complete opposite of that dynamic.

 

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He wanted out and the new GM wanted him out. He ended up in Vegas, got the surgery he wanted and regained his health and form. Now he is the best player on a cup contending team. It worked out well for all the parties involved. 

Good for him and good for us. Not all divorces are tragedies.

[Doohickie]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How else does someone like that act?

LIke McDavid.

[jad1]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Not toxic, but not conducive to team building either. For whatever reason, the Sabres improved greatly once he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe.

The Sabres posted 75 points last season, their 4th best season total since 2015.  They are currently two points ahead of last place in the division. 

No doubt several of their young players are developing.  And the fancy stats do suggest optimism.  But the overall team progress in the standings does not suggest a team that has greatly improved since trading Eichel.

I believe that the Sabres will eventually improve in the standings.  But the gap in the timeline between Eichel leaving and the climb in the standings will suggest that the reason will have little to do with Eichel's leadership or lack thereof.

[North Buffalo]

6 points out of last 7 points out of last playoff spot

14 minutes ago, jad1 said:

The Sabres posted 75 points last season, their 4th best season total since 2015.  They are currently two points ahead of last place in the division. 

No doubt several of their young players are developing.  And the fancy stats do suggest optimism.  But the overall team progress in the standings does not suggest a team that has greatly improved since trading Eichel.

I believe that the Sabres will eventually improve in the standings.  But the gap in the timeline between Eichel leaving and the climb in the standings will suggest that the reason will have little to do with Eichel's leadership or lack thereof.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, jad1 said:

The Sabres posted 75 points last season, their 4th best season total since 2015.  They are currently two points ahead of last place in the division. 

No doubt several of their young players are developing.  And the fancy stats do suggest optimism.  But the overall team progress in the standings does not suggest a team that has greatly improved since trading Eichel.

I believe that the Sabres will eventually improve in the standings.  But the gap in the timeline between Eichel leaving and the climb in the standings will suggest that the reason will have little to do with Eichel's leadership or lack thereof.

Two points from last in the toughest division. But also 5-3-2 in their last 10 games and 7 points out of a playoff berth with 53 games to play.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

On the other hand, based on Jack's results thus far, he was right.

You’re missing the point. The point is he lied about the advice he was given by the medical staff. Glad it worked out for him, but he didn’t need to lie about it just to further his own PR agenda; he could have just left it at the difference of medical opinion that it was.  And BTW, given his results with the cervical fusion procedure, I’d say Kris LeTang was right, too.