Ristolainen in Tortorella's doghouse pretty deep

[matter2003]

Hahaha, one of the worst trades in recent memory...Adams fleeced the Flyers pretty badly. But Risto thought the Sabres were the problem...well, seems like he might have been the much bigger problem.

While Tortorella has plenty to be pleased about, there is one player who isn't playing up to the 64-year-old's standards. Defenseman Rasmus Ristolainen missed the first six games of the season with an unspecified lower-body injury and has been held without a point with a minus-4 rating in the four contests he's suited up in.

That's simply not good enough for Torts.

“He just hasn’t met expectations,” Tortorella said on Monday. “He needs to play better. I’m not going to go that much deeper into it, but I don’t think he’s played well enough. He’s going to get another crack at it. But in everything about his game, I think he needs to be better.”

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nhl-flyers-coach-john-tortorella-rips-rasmus-ristolainen-for-poor-play-161339665.html

Edited November 8, 2022 by matter2003

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Hahaha, one of the worst trades in recent memory...Adams fleeced the Flyers pretty badly. But Risto thought the Sabres were the problem...well, seems like he might have been the much bigger problem.

While Tortorella has plenty to be pleased about, there is one player who isn't playing up to the 64-year-old's standards. Defenseman Rasmus Ristolainen missed the first six games of the season with an unspecified lower-body injury and has been held without a point with a minus-4 rating in the four contests he's suited up in.

That's simply not good enough for Torts.

“He just hasn’t met expectations,” Tortorella said on Monday. “He needs to play better. I’m not going to go that much deeper into it, but I don’t think he’s played well enough. He’s going to get another crack at it. But in everything about his game, I think he needs to be better.”

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nhl-flyers-coach-john-tortorella-rips-rasmus-ristolainen-for-poor-play-161339665.html

Damn that Tortorella. He minces words to the point that you just can’t figure out where he’s coming from half the time.

[inkman]

Well, Torts first problem was his expectations.  He states Risto hasn’t lived up to expectations but anyone with half a brain knew this dude was analytically inept.  He can’t play defense.  He can chip in offensively but that’s it’s. He’s a disaster in his own zone.  

[matter2003]

10 minutes ago, inkman said:

Well, Torts first problem was his expectations.  He states Risto hasn’t lived up to expectations but anyone with half a brain knew this dude was analytically inept.  He can’t play defense.  He can chip in offensively but that’s it’s. He’s a disaster in his own zone.  

I am honestly unsure how Risto became a defenseman to begin with growing up.  At what point did teams not realize that he was constantly on the ice for goals against them or that he would be either unaware a wide open guy was standing behind him like 3 feet away for an easy goal or that he would be off in the corner trying to hit someone while the puck went to his guy standing all alone for an easy goal?

His on ice defensive awareness might be the worst I have ever seen.

Edited November 8, 2022 by matter2003

[That Aud Smell]

Physical specimen. Mental midget.

I will add, @inkman: Risto's hockey IQ is so deficient that your drawing a parallel between him and Tremaine Edmunds didn't quite hold up (but they are on the same continuum).

[inkman]

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Physical specimen. Mental midget.

I will add, @inkman: Risto's hockey IQ is so deficient that your drawing a parallel between him and Tremaine Edmunds didn't quite hold up (but they are on the same continuum).

Risto is much more of a himbo.  I’m still on the fence with Tremaine.  He’s been better with the big butts they brought in to protect him but there is still something not quite right. Maybe it’s the scheme they run.  I have seen some highlights of Tremaine shadowing WR/TE down the field so I don’t think he’s inept.  

[inkman]

Risto really divides analytics guys vs eyeball test.  Risto is NHL EA sports version of a dman.  Big, strong, skates, hits, scores goals.  Except Hhis defensive awareness is a 46.  Just not even respectable. 

[matter2003]

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

Risto is much more of a himbo.  I’m still on the fence with Tremaine.  He’s been better with the big butts they brought in to protect him but there is still something not quite right. Maybe it’s the scheme they run.  I have seen some highlights of Tremaine shadowing WR/TE down the field so I don’t think he’s inept.  

The problem is not understanding Tremaine is exceptional at taking away passing lanes and passing options over the middle of the field which gives teams easy completions normally.  They don't get those same easy plays against the Bills. 

People are still stuck in the mindset that he needs to be some huge run defender or blitzer, but that is not what the scheme is about nor how they use him.

[JustOneParade]

So this begs the question: If Risto was traded for nothing at all (I suppose technically it then wouldn't be considered a trade) would the Sabres still have won the trade? 

[Marvin]

7 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

So this begs the question: If Risto was traded for nothing at all (I suppose technically it then wouldn't be considered a trade) would the Sabres still have won the trade? 

Simply, yes.  This was addition by subtraction.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

And this is a surprise.  Said no one ever.

[nfreeman]

57 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The problem is not understanding Tremaine is exceptional at taking away passing lanes and passing options over the middle of the field which gives teams easy completions normally.  They don't get those same easy plays against the Bills. 

People are still stuck in the mindset that he needs to be some huge run defender or blitzer, but that is not what the scheme is about nor how they use him.

I think most people are OK with Tremaine, and I think he's a good player, but the idea of paying him something like $18MM per year on his next contract -- which is market for a top LB -- is kinda hard to swallow given how few big plays he makes.

[Taro T]

56 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The problem is not understanding Tremaine is exceptional at taking away passing lanes and passing options over the middle of the field which gives teams easy completions normally.  They don't get those same easy plays against the Bills. 

People are still stuck in the mindset that he needs to be some huge run defender or blitzer, but that is not what the scheme is about nor how they use him.

He's a good player but won't be worth anything close to what somebody'll give him in FA.  

And, when Milano is out, Edmunds is not just not a huge run defender, he's actually bad at it.  For whatever reason, he doesn't pay any attention to where the gaps are but gets himself directly in line w/ the runner.  When he shoots through a gap, Edmunds inevitably gets caught in the traffic and the hole he should've been filling is where the RB gashes them through the middle for a big gain.

Milano covers for a lot of his deficiencies.  And as you say, it it tough to pass through the middle w/ Edmunds waiting there.  He isn't bad; he just isn't nearly as good as he's hyped to be.

[PerreaultForever]

Oh yes, I'm friends with some Flyers fans and they all hate Risto (and Hayes and JVR and their entire front office) and they tell me it's pretty universal in all the fans want him gone and many think Fletcher should be fired for signing him. They are loving Torts for sitting him. 

My own view of Risto is he's talented but really really dumb and thus kind of "uncoachable".  I think Scotty Bowman would have turned him into a 4th line forward/irritant/agitator and only ever let him play D if half the team went down with injuries or something. That's about all he's good for. 

[Weave]

So……. Risto, right?

Im really curious if there is anything Torts can do with tough love that would actually change anything.

My colored glasses thought that Risto was pretty solid when he was hyper motivated.  The problem was, that motivation isn’t sustainable, and the dropoff for Risto when he wasn’t hyper motivated is huge.

[Thorny]

Score one for Sabrespace in the “properly selected whipping boy” column 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

The problem is not understanding Tremaine is exceptional at taking away passing lanes and passing options over the middle of the field which gives teams easy completions normally.  They don't get those same easy plays against the Bills. 

People are still stuck in the mindset that he needs to be some huge run defender or blitzer, but that is not what the scheme is about nor how they use him.

Agree he’s not relied on to blitz very often as he’s very effective in coverage as you pointed out. Totally disagree that he isn’t relied on as a run defender in this scheme. He has certain gap responsibilities on every play, as does everyone else in the front seven. 

[matter2003]

33 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Agree he’s not relied on to blitz very often as he’s very effective in coverage as you pointed out. Totally disagree that he isn’t relied on as a run defender in this scheme. He has certain gap responsibilities on every play, as does everyone else in the front seven. 

That's true. What I meant was they didn't draft him for his abilities to be a downhill run defender.  They drafted him to be a formidable pass defender.  They knew he was never going to be a Ray Lewis against the run.

[Buffalonill]

Ristolainen is horrible i still cant believe we got all that for the bum thought he was worth a 3rd 

[Ottosmagic13]

We were solidly on the collect all the "rasmusses" or "Rasmi" plan and he couldn't could even cut it on Cartoon Network. 

  

[Eleven]

Like I said in the around the NHL thread, I'm going to enjoy the Ristolainen-Tortorella drama.

[Crusader1969]

Torts will be good for him.
hope he figures it out - though probably too late in his development path to do much good now 

I’m probably in the minority here but I blame the Sabres for the development of Risto.   Zadorov was lucky to get out when he did 

  

[North Buffalo]

Two of Sabres biggest meathead D draft picks Risto and Zadorov

[Taro T]

46 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Two of Sabres biggest meathead D draft picks Risto and Zadorov

Yep.  They're both strong as ox and nearly as smart.

[JohnC]

If Risto had Samuelsson's brains and instincts he would be an ace defender. At this point in his career it is locked in what he has and doesn't have as a player. He is what he is. Getting a first round pick for him was grand theft, a felonious heist.