Devon Levi Watch 2022-2023

[French Collection]

Spencer Knight is the same age as Levi. He played 13 games in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL.

He is the exception but it can be done.

I want Levi to be the man but I want him to take the time it takes to get there.

I believe it will be sooner than later. I don’t think he will need 2 full AHL seasons.

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

To be clear, Devon Levi is nowhere near a can’t-miss prospect. 
He’s a 7th-rounder that “the industry” is very much divided on whether he will even be an NHL goalie, let alone a good one.
 

And this is absolutely the logical and tried-and-true approach anyone should correctly support on principle.

Sometimes though you take off your analyst’s hat and your risk management hat, you forget about “industry consensus” and “the concept of a goalie” and the “math” of development, and simply ask yourself: does this kid have what it takes to be a good NHL player?

And my answer, with Devon Levi, is unequivocally yes, moreso than any other Sabres prospect outside the first round that I can remember.

 

To the bolded, yes.

This kid has "it."  And, as stated earlier, absolutely want to see him get a game or 2 this year.   

They need to stop playing Anderson (1-4 in his last 5 starts; and yes, he was fantastic against Dallas in the 1st period, but was downright bad in 3 of those losses), find out what they have in Comrie and then get a peak at Levi when he becomes available.  And then based on what they see, either stand pat w/ UPL & Comrie to start or find a bridge guy this summer for 1-2 seasons.

IF they need him, could see Levi ready by Christmas.  If they can let him fully cook in the AHL fine, but expect they're going to find he'll be this year's Quinn.  Too good for the AHL & will be serviceable in general & spectacular at times in the show.  And would not be at all surprised if his serviceable is as good as at least 1 of UPL or Comrie.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Umm...no.  

And there have been more recent goalies starting in their teens/very early 20s who have had success, too.  Price being an example.

When Levi is ready, he's ready, no matter his age or what leagues he's played in.

 

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl-all-star-game/en/team-rosters/campbell-conference-all-stars-1983-nhl-all-star-game-roster.html

Gretzky, Kurri, Dionne, Messier, Coffey, Broten etc would be shaking in their boots lining up against University of Minnesota😀

I want both of you to go watch the University of Minnesota play hockey. Then go turn on any hockey game from 1983. You are missing on the complete and total difference in training and tactics that exist now.  Hell go watch the Sabres in 2006 and watch the Sabres tonight, the speed and way the game is played now is not the same. The players overall skillsets are more refined. The NHL is faster, the players are all better than they were, and everyone has to be able to skate, process, and make plays at fast speeds. Go watch 1983 and see all the defenders falling when they have to turn to follow a forward or the goalies standing up straight. Hell the goal tending alone would make the 1983 team lose. 

What would happen is the 1983 all stars would try to slow the game down and they would be unable too. The College kids would make the defense look slow and the the goalie would get smoked repeatedly by the pre shot movement, overall speed of the attackers, plus the fact they can all shoot. So unless the 1983 team just started hugging ppl they would lose. In this scenario we are using 2023 refs and rules so yea, a NCAA team would beat the 1983 all stars. Besides the physical differences, NCAA players today are in far better shape than just about everyone playing hockey in 1983, look at the movement in the offensive and defensive zones. The tactics today are so much tighter and the understanding of cross ice passing, shot lanes, shot selection, etc... are just better. Look at all the slappers in the 1983 game, an NCAA defender is going to see that and immediately attack the puck versus in 1983 the defenders generally do not do that. 

This is not a shot at 1983 or any past generation of hockey. The past got us to where we are today and some of the players from then are legends and rightfully so. It is more of acknowledgement of where the game has gotten too. If you are uncomfortable with the analogy how about this? What if we took an all decade team from 1980-1989 and put it up against the 2023 NHL all stars, the all stars would absolutely smoke that all decade team. 

So back to the original point, we shouldn't compare a goalie from 1983 to anyone today simply because of how the game has changed. Btw the 1983 Flames v. Oilers game is a fun watch if I do say so. 

 

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I want both of you to go watch the University of Minnesota play hockey. Then go turn on any hockey game from 1983. You are missing on the complete and total difference in training and tactics that exist now.  Hell go watch the Sabres in 2006 and watch the Sabres tonight, the speed and way the game is played now is not the same. The players overall skillsets are more refined. The NHL is faster, the players are all better than they were, and everyone has to be able to skate, process, and make plays at fast speeds. Go watch 1983 and see all the defenders falling when they have to turn to follow a forward or the goalies standing up straight. Hell the goal tending alone would make the 1983 team lose. 

What would happen is the 1983 all stars would try to slow the game down and they would be unable too. The College kids would make the defense look slow and the the goalie would get smoked repeatedly by the pre shot movement, overall speed of the attackers, plus the fact they can all shoot. So unless the 1983 team just started hugging ppl they would lose. In this scenario we are using 2023 refs and rules so yea, a NCAA team would beat the 1983 all stars. Besides the physical differences, NCAA players today are in far better shape than just about everyone playing hockey in 1983, look at the movement in the offensive and defensive zones. The tactics today are so much tighter and the understanding of cross ice passing, shot lanes, shot selection, etc... are just better. Look at all the slappers in the 1983 game, an NCAA defender is going to see that and immediately attack the puck versus in 1983 the defenders generally do not do that. 

This is not a shot at 1983 or any past generation of hockey. The past got us to where we are today and some of the players from then are legends and rightfully so. It is more of acknowledgement of where the game has gotten too. If you are uncomfortable with the analogy how about this? What if we took an all decade team from 1980-1989 and put it up against the 2023 NHL all stars, the all stars would absolutely smoke that all decade team. 

So back to the original point, we shouldn't compare a goalie from 1983 to anyone today simply because of how the game has changed. Btw the 1983 Flames v. Oilers game is a fun watch if I do say so. 

 

Not only that, but all those guys from the '83 AS teams are in their 60's & 70's; well the ones that haven't passed away are in their 60's & 70's.

The Golden Golfers PROBABLY would beat those guys who were among the best in the world in '83.  But expect it would be close.  😉

[Eleven]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I want both of you to go watch the University of Minnesota play hockey. Then go turn on any hockey game from 1983. You are missing on the complete and total difference in training and tactics that exist now.  Hell go watch the Sabres in 2006 and watch the Sabres tonight, the speed and way the game is played now is not the same. The players overall skillsets are more refined. The NHL is faster, the players are all better than they were, and everyone has to be able to skate, process, and make plays at fast speeds. Go watch 1983 and see all the defenders falling when they have to turn to follow a forward or the goalies standing up straight. Hell the goal tending alone would make the 1983 team lose. 

What would happen is the 1983 all stars would try to slow the game down and they would be unable too. The College kids would make the defense look slow and the the goalie would get smoked repeatedly by the pre shot movement, overall speed of the attackers, plus the fact they can all shoot. So unless the 1983 team just started hugging ppl they would lose. In this scenario we are using 2023 refs and rules so yea, a NCAA team would beat the 1983 all stars. Besides the physical differences, NCAA players today are in far better shape than just about everyone playing hockey in 1983, look at the movement in the offensive and defensive zones. The tactics today are so much tighter and the understanding of cross ice passing, shot lanes, shot selection, etc... are just better. Look at all the slappers in the 1983 game, an NCAA defender is going to see that and immediately attack the puck versus in 1983 the defenders generally do not do that. 

This is not a shot at 1983 or any past generation of hockey. The past got us to where we are today and some of the players from then are legends and rightfully so. It is more of acknowledgement of where the game has gotten too. If you are uncomfortable with the analogy how about this? What if we took an all decade team from 1980-1989 and put it up against the 2023 NHL all stars, the all stars would absolutely smoke that all decade team. 

So back to the original point, we shouldn't compare a goalie from 1983 to anyone today simply because of how the game has changed. Btw the 1983 Flames v. Oilers game is a fun watch if I do say so. 

 

There is no way that a 2023 NCAA team is beating the 1983 NHL All Star team at the same ages they were when they were All-Stars.  It's just too silly to argue.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is no way that a 2023 NCAA team is beating the 1983 NHL All Star team at the same ages they were when they were All-Stars.  It's just too silly to argue.

 

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is no way that a 2023 NCAA team is beating the 1983 NHL All Star team at the same ages they were when they were All-Stars.  It's just too silly to argue.

It’s a heck of a lot closer than you think. 

training and physical advancements have been vast since the 80s. It’s not “twenty years ago” anymore, it’s gonna be damn near 50 years soon. 
 

the game bears little resemblance to the 90s nm the 80s. Would probably be a close game but I’d be tempted to take the college kids. It’s impossible to say though. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

It’s a heck of a lot closer than you think. 

training and physical advancements have been vast since the 80s. It’s not “twenty years ago” anymore, it’s gonna be damn near 50 years soon. 
 

the game bears little resemblance to the 90s nm the 80s. Would probably be a close game but I’d take the college kids 

Nah, look at 1983 goaltending versus now. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Nah, look at 1983 goaltending versus now. 

This is going to be a tough one for the board to get on board with, it wouldn’t seem to be a very intuitive thought. I agree with you though. Even just the physicality, I think they could run them into the ground if they play a high contact game. and I don’t think the 80s players are going to find themselves elusive to contact, atall.

its such a wild scenario though it’s tough to predict what would happen, to a certainty, obviously. Maybe the best college team doesn’t get it done. The worst NHL team today would absolutely destroy the all stars from the 80s, at least we know that 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is going to be a tough one for the board to get on board with, it wouldn’t seem to be a very intuitive thought. I agree with you though. Even just the physicality, I think they could run them into the ground if they play a high contact game. and I don’t think the 80s players are going to find themselves elusive to contact, atall.

its such a wild scenario though it’s tough to predict what would happen, to a certainty, obviously. Maybe the best college team doesn’t get it done. The worst NHL team today would absolutely destroy the all stars from the 80s, at least we know that 

Yup

BTW I think the NCAA kids would be more physical just because of how the game is played today. 

[Buffalonill]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I want both of you to go watch the University of Minnesota play hockey. Then go turn on any hockey game from 1983. You are missing on the complete and total difference in training and tactics that exist now.  Hell go watch the Sabres in 2006 and watch the Sabres tonight, the speed and way the game is played now is not the same. The players overall skillsets are more refined. The NHL is faster, the players are all better than they were, and everyone has to be able to skate, process, and make plays at fast speeds. Go watch 1983 and see all the defenders falling when they have to turn to follow a forward or the goalies standing up straight. Hell the goal tending alone would make the 1983 team lose. 

What would happen is the 1983 all stars would try to slow the game down and they would be unable too. The College kids would make the defense look slow and the the goalie would get smoked repeatedly by the pre shot movement, overall speed of the attackers, plus the fact they can all shoot. So unless the 1983 team just started hugging ppl they would lose. In this scenario we are using 2023 refs and rules so yea, a NCAA team would beat the 1983 all stars. Besides the physical differences, NCAA players today are in far better shape than just about everyone playing hockey in 1983, look at the movement in the offensive and defensive zones. The tactics today are so much tighter and the understanding of cross ice passing, shot lanes, shot selection, etc... are just better. Look at all the slappers in the 1983 game, an NCAA defender is going to see that and immediately attack the puck versus in 1983 the defenders generally do not do that. 

This is not a shot at 1983 or any past generation of hockey. The past got us to where we are today and some of the players from then are legends and rightfully so. It is more of acknowledgement of where the game has gotten too. If you are uncomfortable with the analogy how about this? What if we took an all decade team from 1980-1989 and put it up against the 2023 NHL all stars, the all stars would absolutely smoke that all decade team. 

So back to the original point, we shouldn't compare a goalie from 1983 to anyone today simply because of how the game has changed. Btw the 1983 Flames v. Oilers game is a fun watch if I do say so. 

 

I'll disagree with this the "the  college team" would get destroyed either by the Physicality of the game or the skill of the 1983 roster easily 

We're talking about maybe the greatest roster of players in the nhl at this time 

[Brawndo]

 

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

It's just a tad bit strange that they do this while there is still a little less than a month left in the season.  Not quite as strange as an argument that requires time travel, but still, fairly strange.

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I want both of you to go watch the University of Minnesota play hockey. Then go turn on any hockey game from 1983. You are missing on the complete and total difference in training and tactics that exist now.  Hell go watch the Sabres in 2006 and watch the Sabres tonight, the speed and way the game is played now is not the same. The players overall skillsets are more refined. The NHL is faster, the players are all better than they were, and everyone has to be able to skate, process, and make plays at fast speeds. Go watch 1983 and see all the defenders falling when they have to turn to follow a forward or the goalies standing up straight. Hell the goal tending alone would make the 1983 team lose. 

What would happen is the 1983 all stars would try to slow the game down and they would be unable too. The College kids would make the defense look slow and the the goalie would get smoked repeatedly by the pre shot movement, overall speed of the attackers, plus the fact they can all shoot. So unless the 1983 team just started hugging ppl they would lose. In this scenario we are using 2023 refs and rules so yea, a NCAA team would beat the 1983 all stars. Besides the physical differences, NCAA players today are in far better shape than just about everyone playing hockey in 1983, look at the movement in the offensive and defensive zones. The tactics today are so much tighter and the understanding of cross ice passing, shot lanes, shot selection, etc... are just better. Look at all the slappers in the 1983 game, an NCAA defender is going to see that and immediately attack the puck versus in 1983 the defenders generally do not do that. 

This is not a shot at 1983 or any past generation of hockey. The past got us to where we are today and some of the players from then are legends and rightfully so. It is more of acknowledgement of where the game has gotten too. If you are uncomfortable with the analogy how about this? What if we took an all decade team from 1980-1989 and put it up against the 2023 NHL all stars, the all stars would absolutely smoke that all decade team. 

So back to the original point, we shouldn't compare a goalie from 1983 to anyone today simply because of how the game has changed. Btw the 1983 Flames v. Oilers game is a fun watch if I do say so. 

 

 You are correct about the training and the game changing but your comment about the 83 All Star team is still utterly ridiculous. You are talking about some of the greatest players of all time.

I have watched Minnesota play and it wouldn’t be close. Gretzky or Logan Cooley, Coffey or Jackson Lacombe.

I guess Rocket Richard would be an ECHL player. 

[TheAud]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is going to be a tough one for the board to get on board with, it wouldn’t seem to be a very intuitive thought. I agree with you though. Even just the physicality, I think they could run them into the ground if they play a high contact game. and I don’t think the 80s players are going to find themselves elusive to contact, atall.

its such a wild scenario though it’s tough to predict what would happen, to a certainty, obviously. Maybe the best college team doesn’t get it done. The worst NHL team today would absolutely destroy the all stars from the 80s, at least we know that 

This is an endless argument found in all sports...how would todays athletes compare vs. those of yesteryear. 

Undoubtedly advances in training and techniques, not to mention nutrition if you go far enough back in time, along with the increased $$$ associated with sports and the general advancement of society leading to more intense and earlier sports experiences early on in athlete's careers, would lead to a general improvement in the quality of athletes today vs. the past. 

However, there are a couple of things not mentioned in the discussion above. 

One is equipment. If today's hockey players were transported back in time and played with the relatively inferior skates, sticks, goalie pads, arena lighting, etc that was present in the 1970's, 80's etc, it would pull their performance down to some extent. 

Likewise, if today's hockey players were subjected to the rules as they were written and enforced, and how players were coached, it would also move them towards performance that would look more like the players from that time. 

The last point is this example is comparing an All-Star team with a college team. I believe that the very best NHL players of any generation (at least say, since expansion) would be able to compete at a high level in today's NHL given all the equipment, coaching, rules changes, etc. Watch Gretzky skate and pass or see Gordie Howe with his shirt off (more ripped than any dude in today's NHL) and tell me they wouldn't be all-stars today.

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You should listen to Biron more if you think that. 

Biron is certainly wiser and more objective than Ray, but homers on ALL broadcasts are homers so it's still more objective when you hear it from the outside. 

[MBD]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Coronato scored both goals in regulation against him.  I like how after he saves the shootout attempt by Coronato, he throws it down the ice in disgust.

Edited February 15, 2023 by MBD

[Brawndo]

Just now, MBD said:

Coronato scored both goals in regulation against him.  I like how after he saves the shootout attempt by Coronato, he throws it down the ice.

He has a sense a cockiness and swagger to him 

[K-9]

21 minutes ago, MBD said:

Coronato scored both goals in regulation against him.  I like how after he saves the shootout attempt by Coronato, he throws it down the ice.

Love that about him. He seems to take being scored against personally. He’s Hasek-like in that regard and I look forward to him frustrating his teammates in practice like Dom used to and Granato telling him to ease up like Lindy used to with Hasek lest he ruins their confidence. 

[MattPie]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Love that about him. He seems to take being scored against personally. He’s Hasek-like in that regard and I look forward to him frustrating his teammates in practice like Dom used to and Granato telling him to ease up like Lindy used to with Hasek lest he ruins their confidence. 

Just as long as it doesn't get us this:

(side, note, greatest goalie of all time cameo in there)

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, TheAud said:

This is an endless argument found in all sports...how would todays athletes compare vs. those of yesteryear. 

Undoubtedly advances in training and techniques, not to mention nutrition if you go far enough back in time, along with the increased $$$ associated with sports and the general advancement of society leading to more intense and earlier sports experiences early on in athlete's careers, would lead to a general improvement in the quality of athletes today vs. the past. 

However, there are a couple of things not mentioned in the discussion above. 

One is equipment. If today's hockey players were transported back in time and played with the relatively inferior skates, sticks, goalie pads, arena lighting, etc that was present in the 1970's, 80's etc, it would pull their performance down to some extent. 

Likewise, if today's hockey players were subjected to the rules as they were written and enforced, and how players were coached, it would also move them towards performance that would look more like the players from that time. 

The last point is this example is comparing an All-Star team with a college team. I believe that the very best NHL players of any generation (at least say, since expansion) would be able to compete at a high level in today's NHL given all the equipment, coaching, rules changes, etc. Watch Gretzky skate and pass or see Gordie Howe with his shirt off (more ripped than any dude in today's NHL) and tell me they wouldn't be all-stars today.

 

 

Equipment is definitely a relevant factor. But we’d have to time travel baby Gretzky forward and have him be born today, and grow up with the health, training and regimen techniques for him to still be the very best. I don’t think just suiting 80s Wayne up in today’s equipment does it. He could still hang that way, I’d guess, to your point, but McDavid still skates circles around 80s Wayne with ease. 

watch this finals game in 1980. Pretty fun and pretty slow 

And by pretty slow I mean..glacial. 

And the puck skills...simply worlds apart 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Thorny

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, TheAud said:

This is an endless argument found in all sports...how would todays athletes compare vs. those of yesteryear. 

Undoubtedly advances in training and techniques, not to mention nutrition if you go far enough back in time, along with the increased $$$ associated with sports and the general advancement of society leading to more intense and earlier sports experiences early on in athlete's careers, would lead to a general improvement in the quality of athletes today vs. the past. 

However, there are a couple of things not mentioned in the discussion above. 

One is equipment. If today's hockey players were transported back in time and played with the relatively inferior skates, sticks, goalie pads, arena lighting, etc that was present in the 1970's, 80's etc, it would pull their performance down to some extent. 

Likewise, if today's hockey players were subjected to the rules as they were written and enforced, and how players were coached, it would also move them towards performance that would look more like the players from that time. 

The last point is this example is comparing an All-Star team with a college team. I believe that the very best NHL players of any generation (at least say, since expansion) would be able to compete at a high level in today's NHL given all the equipment, coaching, rules changes, etc. Watch Gretzky skate and pass or see Gordie Howe with his shirt off (more ripped than any dude in today's NHL) and tell me they wouldn't be all-stars today.

 

 

This is an argument that will never be settled. I’ll just say that I side with the old guys because of nostalgia and being an old guy myself.

If they played tonight I think the NCAA guys take it due to technology, speed, training, goaltending and coaching. Their coaches grew up watching these guys and would devise strategies to beat them. Today’s equipment is so much better, that alone would make a big difference.

Athletes are constantly improving, McDavid’s speed would seem alien to the 80’s players. The fastest man in the world in 1983 was Carl Lewis and he ran a 10.07 second 100m (not yards). Usain Bolt’s record is 9.58.

In one game the NCAA guys would have the element of surprise and would probably stun the 80’s guys like the Soviets did to Canada in ‘72.

In a month long series of games, I think the NHLers adapt and find ways to win through sheer will power and competitiveness. Their work ethic and determination helped many of them get to the HOF and they wouldn’t just fold up their tents. Let them use the modern equipment and there will be a quick rise in their skill levels. Gretzky learns how to do the Michigan and adds that to his arsenal. If that doesn’t work, Messier will go all Bobby Clarke and start breaking bones.

As @LGR4GMsays, goaltending would be a huge difference. The 1983 squad would have Pelle Lindbergh, Pete Peeters, Murray Bannerman and John Garrett.

Fun to think about.

[Taro T]

47 minutes ago, French Collection said:

This is an argument that will never be settled. I’ll just say that I side with the old guys because of nostalgia and being an old guy myself.

If they played tonight I think the NCAA guys take it due to technology, speed, training, goaltending and coaching. Their coaches grew up watching these guys and would devise strategies to beat them. Today’s equipment is so much better, that alone would make a big difference.

Athletes are constantly improving, McDavid’s speed would seem alien to the 80’s players. The fastest man in the world in 1983 was Carl Lewis and he ran a 10.07 second 100m (not yards). Usain Bolt’s record is 9.58.

In one game the NCAA guys would have the element of surprise and would probably stun the 80’s guys like the Soviets did to Canada in ‘72.

In a month long series of games, I think the NHLers adapt and find ways to win through sheer will power and competitiveness. Their work ethic and determination helped many of them get to the HOF and they wouldn’t just fold up their tents. Let them use the modern equipment and there will be a quick rise in their skill levels. Gretzky learns how to do the Michigan and adds that to his arsenal. If that doesn’t work, Messier will go all Bobby Clarke and start breaking bones.

As @LGR4GMsays, goaltending would be a huge difference. The 1983 squad would have Pelle Lindbergh, Pete Peeters, Murray Bannerman and John Garrett.

Fun to think about.

It would.  Especially if they used the '83 vintage equipment.  Make everybody play in what was available in '83 and the modern guys wouldn't have a prayer.

There was a reason there were very few butterfly goalies back prior to the end of the '80's & the '90's.  The leg pads didn't have risers in the knees, nor did they lace up really loosely up high to accommodate the knee/lower thigh not having the pad stay stationary relative to the goalies leg. 

Not only that but there was still a LOT of unblocked net when goalies were "in position."  The behemoths that roam the creases today would be toast as shooters picked corners.  Geoff Sanderson was a monster coming down the wing with his slapshot when he 1st came into the league but was nowhere near as effective by the time the "dead puck" era began.

And btw, though Garrett won the MVP that day, he was an injury replacement and was a fulltime backup.  King Richard was supposed to be Vancouver's ASG representative.

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, MBD said:

Coronato scored both goals in regulation against him.  I like how after he saves the shootout attempt by Coronato, he throws it down the ice in disgust.

 

15 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He has a sense a cockiness and swagger to him 

I loved it. 

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Biron is certainly wiser and more objective than Ray, but homers on ALL broadcasts are homers so it's still more objective when you hear it from the outside. 

Marty Biron is one of the better hockey analysts in the NHL. Don't let his congenial personality hide his substantive knowledge of the league. The one area that Mary is qualified to speak to is the goalie position. If you get a chance, go back to yesterday's morning appearance on WGR where he talks about Levi. To put it mildly, he is a believer in Levi. He's effusive in his praise of his quickness and ability to analyze the play in front of him.