Too Many of the same type of Player?

[breese866]

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

[SwampD]

The Sabres are small?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Can I ask which players you feel fall into that small, skilled, quick category?

[PerreaultForever]

22 minutes ago, SwampD said:

The Sabres are small?

Not small in terms of height. Maybe not even in terms of weight (someone with more time and inclination can research that if they want). But overall they mostly do play like "light weights" . 

So to the question, I think the answer is yes. You can argue though that you build the speed/skill first and then add the grit/toughness. personally I would do it at the same time though. We have some more willing combatants and push back types now but we could use a better mix. Especially if we ever want to be a playoff team.

The Sabres, as a team, historically were not all about speed and skill. Sure, you remember the stars like the French Connection but they also had Korab and Dudley and crazy Spinner Spencer. Danny Gare was a scorer but he'd drop 'em too. It was a balanced team, even if ultimately still not quite tough enough in the bully era. 

Tampa and the Leafs and others in recent history have shown us that you still need team toughness to be successful and if you don't have it you can get tossed from the playoffs. Boston didn't beat Vancouver because they were more talented. They beat them because even their goalie threw a body check on a Sedin. 

The solution is easy though. Take that line up above, add a 3rd line center like Copp, add a RHD like Manson and maybe a big thug winger for the 4th line to upgrade Hayden and you are pretty much on your way. 

[Pimlach]

The game has changed in the past 50 years.  Speed and skill is the first priority.  Fighting is almost gone ...for the playoffs hitting and toughness make a comeback and  the refs tend to put away the whistles and things get heated up.  
 

The Sabres might be a little small on defense but with Samuelsson and Power joining that is changing.   

They can use another big forward with skills, another player like Tuch, but so can most teams.  

Edited April 17, 2022 by Pimlach

[Stads]

How dare you leave Mr. Eakin off of that roster. For shame!

[Marvin]

3 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Welcome back!

[Digger]

3 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Okay I'll bite, but what changes would you make?

I think we all agree that upgrading the goaltender position is priority #1 going into this off-season.  This is followed by getting 1 or 2 RHD that can play, and most likely top 4 minutes (unless Dahlin can settle in on the right side).  Do they need to be tough (sure if available and they still have the skill to play top minutes).  I would say that what we need to ensure additions are good team players that will jump in and defend their teammates when needed.  This season the Sabres have been better than quite some time with players willing to jump in a to defend and support each other.  I like Olofsson and Asplund but we know that they won't do much or anything in a scrum.  But I don't see us upgrading to the tougher version of either.  I would love to have Marcus Foligno back on the team but I find it highly unlikely they will get him back.

Cozens taking boxing lessons and fighting more?  I hope not and I hope that he's getting better advice than that.  He'll make a bigger impact using his skill rather than becoming a tough guy.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Tage 6-7

Tuch 6-4

Power 6-6

Samuelsson 6-4

Cozens 6-3

Dahlin 6-3

This isn’t exact Nathan Gerbe and the lollipop guild.  The only mini player is Bryson. 

They also don’t play small. When they are doing what DG wants they are relentless on the forecheck.  They are also much improved at covering for the pinching D and using that to cycle in zone.

What the are lacking is some physical maturity up front.  Krebs, Cozens and others can get pushed off the puck. The skaters in general also tend to pass puck into skates. The poor passing has increased in recent games, but top teams will do that to you.  
 

It’s pretty clear that Krebs and Mitts are our most talented playmakers, while Tuch, TNT, and VO have displayed more chops as passers then I expected. What we lack is a truly dynamic all around forward.   Maybe Quinn will be that guy.  

Still, I haven’t seen the fear to attack the net that was prevalent in years past and earlier this seasons.

So many guys up front haven’t quite hit their peak. Cozens, Krebs, Asplund, Mitts spring must to mind. Hopefully all will hit the weight room this summer.  

If you are asking for an identity. I think look no further then the Blues for what this team can become.  Rolling 4 effective lines with guys who can score throughout the lineup.  Guys who also are willing to back check and support the D.  Now if we can just get some Binnington level goaltending.  

Edited April 16, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Doohickie]

29 minutes ago, Stads said:

How dare you leave Mr. Eakin off of that roster. For shame!

 

4 hours ago, breese866 said:

This is how I see our team looking next year. 

Eakin better not be on this team next year or I'm going to flip out.

[Buffalonill]

The bulding of the team is great imo its all about run&gun we have that 

[Stads]

39 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

 

Eakin better not be on this team next year or I'm going to flip out.

But you will do what we all think you're going to do

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, Digger said:

Okay I'll bite, but what changes would you make?

.........

Cozens taking boxing lessons and fighting more?  I hope not and I hope that he's getting better advice than that.  He'll make a bigger impact using his skill rather than becoming a tough guy.

In my own mind, my hope is that Cozens can develop into a Tuch type power forward.  Don't need him to be the enforcer, but would like to see him get stronger and add more muscle mass to match what I think is his willingness to play hard and win 1-on-1 battles.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Carmel Corn

[Marvin]

7 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Our bottom pair needs to be better than Bryson-Fitzgerald.  That's one place to start.

In the games I have been at, the team as a whole plays hard along the boards and are improving their tenacity as checkers.  They need to be much more structured and intelligent in the defencive zone.

After that, they need more quality depth.  That is going to be a problem with how thin Rochester is.

[Curt]

7 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

No.  I don’t think that the Sabres have too many players that are skilled and fast but small (soft?).

I think that it would be good to and a couple more rugged players (that’s true for most every NHL team) and I think that should be a consideration moving forward, but I don’t see the current group as being undersized.

[Wyldnwoody44]

This convo again and again 

 

[pi2000]

[HumanSlinky39]

10 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Small, skilled, quick, fast. The only guys I see there that might fit exclusively into that category would be Krebs, Quinn & Peterka. I wouldn't describe any of those lines as "small" except maybe the Cozens line, but Cozens is 6'3 and still filling out. On D, Power, 'Muel and Dahlin are all plenty big and physical...well, Powers may not be overly physical yet, but his length is gonna make him a problem for other teams. 

I actually think that's a pretty well constructed blend of skill and size. I'd like to see them add another power forward in FA, but we're moving in the right direction if these young guys keep developing and live up to their potential.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

Small, skilled, quick, fast. The only guys I see there that might fit exclusively into that category would be Krebs, Quinn & Peterka. I wouldn't describe any of those lines as "small" except maybe the Cozens line, but Cozens is 6'3 and still filling out. On D, Power, 'Muel and Dahlin are all plenty big and physical...well, Powers may not be overly physical yet, but his length is gonna make him a problem for other teams. 

I actually think that's a pretty well constructed blend of skill and size. I'd like to see them add another power forward in FA, but we're moving in the right direction if these young guys keep developing and live up to their potential.

Would agree w/ the bolded.  The team definitely has an identity of fast and if the youth continues to develop skilled should also be an accurate descriptor.  But, though there are some small guys like Skinner, Bryson, Krebs, & even Fitzgerald that doesn't seem to be defining especially on a team w/ Thompson, Tuch, Power, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Okposo, Girgensons, & Cozens.

[SwampD]

18 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not small in terms of height. Maybe not even in terms of weight (someone with more time and inclination can research that if they want). But overall they mostly do play like "light weights" . 

So to the question, I think the answer is yes. You can argue though that you build the speed/skill first and then add the grit/toughness. personally I would do it at the same time though. We have some more willing combatants and push back types now but we could use a better mix. Especially if we ever want to be a playoff team.

The Sabres, as a team, historically were not all about speed and skill. Sure, you remember the stars like the French Connection but they also had Korab and Dudley and crazy Spinner Spencer. Danny Gare was a scorer but he'd drop 'em too. It was a balanced team, even if ultimately still not quite tough enough in the bully era. 

Tampa and the Leafs and others in recent history have shown us that you still need team toughness to be successful and if you don't have it you can get tossed from the playoffs. Boston didn't beat Vancouver because they were more talented. They beat them because even their goalie threw a body check on a Sedin. 

The solution is easy though. Take that line up above, add a 3rd line center like Copp, add a RHD like Manson and maybe a big thug winger for the 4th line to upgrade Hayden and you are pretty much on your way. 

I like this response. I agree with a lot if it. Although, I’m not sure if them playing like “light weights” (which i’m not sure is completely accurate) isn’t just a function of how young they all are. I think just by filling out more and getting older, they will learn to use their size more.

15 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

The bulding of the team is great imo its all about run&gun we have that 

That is not enough. It never has been.

[matter2003]

20 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

Umm...you have Thompson at 6'7", Power at 6'6", Tuch and Samuelson at 6'4"...

We literally might be the biggest team in the league and potentially one of the biggest in NHL history. Has any team ever had 4 players 6'4" or taller on it??

What are you talking about?

Edited April 17, 2022 by matter2003

[JoeSchmoe]

20 hours ago, breese866 said:

Skinner         Thompson            Tuch

Krebs            Cozens                Peterka

Quinn            Mittelstadt           Oloffson

Okposo          Asplund               Girgensons

Hinostroza                                 Hayden

            Power                   Jokiharju

             Dahlin                   Samuelsson

             Bryson                 Fitzgerald

             Pysyk

This is how I see our team looking next year.  

 

The Flyers and the Bruins have always been synonymous with big, bad, rough and tough teams.  Win or lose, same identity.  To me, the Sabres hallmark has been speed.  Remembering back to the 03-07 teams coming out of the lockout, our team was built on wicked speed and quickness.  It seems that that is the team we are trying to build now.  Is that too many of the same type of player? Small, skilled, quick and fast players.  Someone recently said that you need different type of players in order to build a successful organization.  Back in the day, I remember one of the players say that management told him to take boxing lessons over the summer, could have been Barnaby.  I think someone should tell Cozens to take a boxing lesson this summer.  Not necessarily to fight, but to be ready when it may become necessary and so that he doesn't get it handed to him.  I hope Power, Samuelsson and maybe Dahlin develop a snarl to go along with their extraordinary ability.  Maybe we should bring in a big rough tough RHD, this summer.

 

I'm not sure if you've been watching the games this year, but Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Okposo, Dahlin, Samuelsson, and Fitzgerald have all been rough and tough this year.

Girgensens, Skinner, Pysyk, andikely Power are no slouches either.

Note that I left Hayden off the list because I don't want him anywhere near next year's team. 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I like this response. I agree with a lot if it. Although, I’m not sure if them playing like “light weights” (which i’m not sure is completely accurate) isn’t just a function of how young they all are. I think just by filling out more and getting older, they will learn to use their size more.

That is not enough. It never has been.

I doubt buffalo is done bulding this is just the beginning 

[dudacek]

I don’t think this thread is asking an unnecessary question, just one that’s a little premature.

We’re still in the process of taking the step from bad team to competitive one; which is is about adding talent and developing culture.

Once we are competitive, there will be an increased focus on composition, filling the holes necessary to push from competitor to contender. And that may involve needing to add more brute strength or bite.

in terms of identity, Adams talked early on about wanting to be fast and relentless; I think that is where we are trending.

if there is a signature player who best represents that identity, I’m going to say Dylan Cozens, both in approach and in development.

Edited April 17, 2022 by dudacek

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Tage 6-7

Tuch 6-4

Power 6-6

Samuelsson 6-4

Cozens 6-3

Dahlin 6-3

This isn’t exact Nathan Gerbe and the lollipop guild.  The only mini player is Bryson. 

They also don’t play small. When they are doing what DG wants they are relentless on the forecheck.  They are also much improved at covering for the pinching D and using that to cycle in zone.

What the are lacking is some physical maturity up front.  Krebs, Cozens and others can get pushed off the puck. The skaters in general also tend to pass puck into skates. The poor passing has increased in recent games, but top teams will do that to you.  
 

It’s pretty clear that Krebs and Mitts are our most talented playmakers, while Tuch, TNT, and VO have displayed more chops as passers then I expected. What we lack is a truly dynamic all around forward.   Maybe Quinn will be that guy.  

Still, I haven’t seen the fear to attack the net that was prevalent in years past and earlier this seasons.

So many guys up front haven’t quite hit their peak. Cozens, Krebs, Asplund, Mitts spring must to mind. Hopefully all will hit the weight room this summer.  

If you are asking for an identity. I think look no further then the Blues for what this team can become.  Rolling 4 effective lines with guys who can score throughout the lineup.  Guys who also are willing to back check and support the D.  Now if we can just get some Binnington level goaltending.  

Bryson, Fitz, and Hinostroza are small but the rest are average or above.   Fitz is feisty though.  His toughness out weighs his skill so far. 
 

Our overall size is decent,  now we need see the younger guys (Cozens,Krebs, Mitts, Quinn, Asplund) get stronger and play that way.   I like having at least one beast that can deter other teams from taking advantage of us.  But that player has to be able to play.  A guy like Marcus Foligno would be nice to have.  
 

You mention the Blues, their forwards as a whole are one of the largest groups in the league. They mix size, toughness, speed, and skill on all four lines with no big superstar.  We can do that easier than looking for the next Eichel.  The key to the Blues is Binnington.   He is also a pretty feisty player btw, and when he is hot they are hard to beat.