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Sabres Sign 2020 First Round Pick Jack Quinn to ELC


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48 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

His shooting % was in the 20's last season.  That's unsustainable, when it drops to 7-8% he'll score maybe 20g becoming a bust of epic proportions.

Whaaaat!!!!  You mean he isn’t going to score 70 goals in the NHL???

It would be a little surprising if he shot 7-8% though.  Most players with good shots shoot 10%+.

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25 minutes ago, Weave said:

Who said I doubt he gets better?  I didn't. But I won't proclaim it until it is actually true.

So you don’t have any doubts that he will get better, but you won’t say that he will get better until after he actually gets better?  Lol

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8 minutes ago, Curt said:

So you don’t have any doubts that he will get better, but you won’t say that he will get better until after he actually gets better?  Lol

*eyeroll

No, I won’t proclaim him the generational player that gets tossed around here, or even elite, until he actually is.

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1 hour ago, Weave said:

And that is pretty much Inky's point.  The kid has a bunch of developing to do before he should be annointed anything more than best 19 yr old NHL defenseman currently.

Ligers reaction to it is like Old Faithful.  Or that cauldera in Yellowstone waiting to end human suffering.

Best 19 year old defenseman of the past 30 years, 40 years?  50 years?

 

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And some people here thought Eichel wouldn't pan out & was overrated as a prospect until he wasn't.

He's on track to be with great likelihood Hedman level or perhaps even better.  Yes, he needs to improve in several areas.  But he likely will and we should start seeing more than simply glimpses of what he'll become. 

So you think he is on track to be a consistently top 5 (top 2-3?) D in the league or perhaps even better!  What’s that?  No doubt top D in the league?

It honestly sounds like you are pretty dang high on him.

But you don’t like it when people talk too glowingly of him??? No one here is saying that he is a Norris level guy right now.  The most generous things I’ve seen people say about him are that maybe he has a good chance of putting up 60+ points next season and that he is better than Risto right now.  Everything else that people say is in future tense.

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3 minutes ago, Weave said:

*eyeroll

No, I won’t proclaim him the generational player that gets tossed around here, or even elite, until he actually is.

Lol.  I just thought it sounded funny the way you wrote it.  Didn’t mean any offense (or annoyance, lol).  I get you.  

Is anyone saying that he is currently elite?

He has been called a generational prospect, which I think is warranted.  That doesn’t mean that he is elite today though.

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2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Best 19 year old defenseman of the past 30 years, 40 years?  50 years?

 

So you think he is on track to be a consistently top 5 (top 2-3?) D in the league or perhaps even better!  What’s that?  No doubt top D in the league?

It honestly sounds like you are pretty dang high on him.

But you don’t like it when people talk too glowingly of him??? No one here is saying that he is a Norris level guy right now.  The most generous things I’ve seen people say about him are that maybe he has a good chance of putting up 60+ points next season and that he is better than Risto right now.  Everything else that people say is in future tense.

Not sure what you're getting at.

Took issue with people saying he was CLEARLY their best D-man in the 1st 1/2 of last season when he was having issues of his own and was not their best D-man.  Expect there is a reasonable chance he'll be their best D-man this coming season but even if he isn't, am not too worried about his growth as a player as the 20 extra pounds it appears he put on should help greatly with 2 of his biggest areas he needs to get better in: playing down low in his own end & his shot.  The other main area he needs to improve - playing against odd man rushes should be improved simply by the extra experience he now has against them.  Get better at choosing the correct outlet pass too, and that sounds like a #1 on this team.

Hoping he gets a consistent partner this season and would prefer to give Montour the 1st crack at it as he played well with Dahlin last year.  If he's not here or has to be on the left side, then give him Jokiharju initially.  Don't like the Rasmi on the ice at the same time.

Am very high on his future & still expect the ceiling to be HoF.  (Not saying he gets there, but it is still possible. ) And give him a slightly better than even chance of being at least a Hedman: a guy that is very good in all 3 phases, can consistently play 24+, and consistently is in the Norris discussion.  And his floor is a true #2.  Not a bad outlook for a kid that still won't be allowed to legally buy a beer in (716) this season.

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

Whaaaat!!!!  You mean he isn’t going to score 70 goals in the NHL???

It would be a little surprising if he shot 7-8% though.  Most players with good shots shoot 10%+.

Thats said, studies show that on average, junior players have higher shooting percentages than pros, which I'm going casually attribute to superior pro goaltending and defense.  

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3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

His shooting % was in the 20's last season.  That's unsustainable, when it drops to 7-8% he'll score maybe 20g becoming a bust of epic proportions.

Well, a 20-goal scorer isn’t an epic bust.  A guy who was hyped as the top prospect in the NHL a few years ago but now might wash out entirely (rhymes with “griddle fat”) — now that’s an epic bust.  

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6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh idk about a lot better. Hmm this is hard because I have more info on Cozens than Quinn but they exist on the same level or tier talent wise. I think right now Cozens is better but Quinn is an anomaly in so many ways. 

Id be curious to hear @chloewoj take

It's my guess based on what I know and my gut instincts. I could be wrong, but I expect accolades when I'm right about it 🙂

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11 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Thats said, studies show that on average, junior players have higher shooting percentages than pros, which I'm going casually attribute to superior pro goaltending and defense.  

Alright I will bite. Yes, studies show that your sh% lowers in the NHL but there is a correlation between sh% in junior and in the NHL. Also there are other metrics to take into account when evaluating Quinn that I think most are missing. He isn't just his shot and that is encouraging because otherwise he would be Kaliyev. 

Rossi probably ends up better but there is considerable rumblings among scouts who went to 67's games that Quinn was the better player, time will tell. I remain doubtful but hopeful. 

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12 hours ago, Taro T said:

Not sure what you're getting at.

Took issue with people saying he was CLEARLY their best D-man in the 1st 1/2 of last season when he was having issues of his own and was not their best D-man.  Expect there is a reasonable chance he'll be their best D-man this coming season but even if he isn't, am not too worried about his growth as a player as the 20 extra pounds it appears he put on should help greatly with 2 of his biggest areas he needs to get better in: playing down low in his own end & his shot.  The other main area he needs to improve - playing against odd man rushes should be improved simply by the extra experience he now has against them.  Get better at choosing the correct outlet pass too, and that sounds like a #1 on this team.

Hoping he gets a consistent partner this season and would prefer to give Montour the 1st crack at it as he played well with Dahlin last year.  If he's not here or has to be on the left side, then give him Jokiharju initially.  Don't like the Rasmi on the ice at the same time.

Am very high on his future & still expect the ceiling to be HoF.  (Not saying he gets there, but it is still possible. ) And give him a slightly better than even chance of being at least a Hedman: a guy that is very good in all 3 phases, can consistently play 24+, and consistently is in the Norris discussion.  And his floor is a true #2.  Not a bad outlook for a kid that still won't be allowed to legally buy a beer in (716) this season.

I was just trying to get at the fact that you were resistant to people praising him, yet seemed extremely high on him yourself.  You have basically cleared that up though.

Early last season, Dahlin was not generally Buffalo’s best D, but by the end of the season, I think he was.

I agree completely with everything else you said except the last paragraph, where my views diverge slightly.  I know this is going to sound a little weird, but, assuming continued health, I would be legitimately surprised if Dahlin is not a hall of famer.  Same for Eichel.  3-4 players go in every year for their on ice work, so it’s not THAT exclusive.  I would give it more like 66-75% that he is as good or better than Hedman.

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I know some expect higher from Dahlin. But me personally, I would be happy if Dahlins ceiling was Hedman. If he never got any better than Hedman, I’d be very happy with Dahlins development. Anything north of that I’d be estatic.

If Quinn tops out in a few years and averages as a 45-55 point NHL forward, I’ll be very happy about that too. As long as his 200 ft. game is solid too.

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8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's my guess based on what I know and my gut instincts. I could be wrong, but I expect accolades when I'm right about it 🙂

I think most of the fanbase is much higher on Cozens than Quinn. It may turn out they are right, but the gap right now isn't what it's perceived to be.

Both are excellent athletes. Cozens is listed at 6'3" 185, Quinn at 6'1" 180.

Cozens is a faster, more powerful skater, Quinn is more nifty and has better hands. Neither has an obvious hole in his game. They both play PP and PK.

They are both hard on the puck, responsible defensively, hard-working and good teammates who play fast.

  • Cozens NHLe in his draft year: 12/19/31
  • Quinn NHLe in his draft year: 22/16/38
  • Cozens NHLe in his D+1 year: 18/23/41

They're closer than people think. Relative to their age group, it's like comparing 2006 Eric Staal and 2006 Daniel Alfredsson.

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The latest embedded episode talks alot about how Quinn is a high character guy, has the right "dna" , etc. they're looking for in a Sabre.   

Were there any character concerns with Rossi? There wasn't one mention of him in that episode. 

 Or did they simply pass on Rossi because Quinn was the more prolific goal scorer?

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3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think most of the fanbase is much higher on Cozens than Quinn. It may turn out they are right, but the gap right now isn't what it's perceived to be.

Both are excellent athletes. Cozens is listed at 6'3" 185, Quinn at 6'1" 180.

Cozens is a faster, more powerful skater, Quinn is more nifty and has better hands. Neither has an obvious hole in his game. They both play PP and PK.

They are both hard on the puck, responsible defensively, hard-working and good teammates who play fast.

  • Cozens NHLe in his draft year: 12/19/31
  • Quinn NHLe in his draft year: 22/16/38
  • Cozens NHLe in his D+1 year: 18/23/41

They're closer than people think. Relative to their age group, it's like comparing 2006 Eric Staal and 2006 Daniel Alfredsson.

Exactly. They are close in terms of the players they are. 

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

The latest embedded episode talks alot about how Quinn is a high character guy, has the right "dna" , etc. they're looking for in a Sabre.   

Were there any character concerns with Rossi? There wasn't one mention of him in that episode. 

 Or did they simply pass on Rossi because Quinn was the more prolific goal scorer?

Not sure, they probably ignored Rossi because that isn't who they drafted so they cut out talk of him. The concern has always been with Rossi that he's reached his development peak and what you see is what you get. Quinn in their opinion has untapped upside. 

40 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Any chance he makes the roster?  Or is he headed straight back for juniors?

He's headed back to juniors as long as their is a junior season... I suppose he could show up at camp and light the world on fire but seems unlikely. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 3:21 PM, Curt said:

Saying that a 19 year old defenseman has a long way to go is kind of a no brained thing to say.  Of course he does.

Are there any 19 year old defensemen out there that don’t have a loooooooooong way to go?  That’s an honest question by the way.

Look what Quinn Hughes did as a 20 year old, let's see if Dahlin can impact games like he did this season. Especially what Quinn did in the playoffs. He was a force.

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2 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Look what Quinn Hughes did as a 20 year old, let's see if Dahlin can impact games like he did this season. Especially what Quinn did in the playoffs. He was a force.

I’m not sure you are allowed to use that picture. He was my original screen name and I think I copywrited that pic.😜

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19 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Look what Quinn Hughes did as a 20 year old, let's see if Dahlin can impact games like he did this season. Especially what Quinn did in the playoffs. He was a force.

That’s fair.  Just the numbers:  Hughes was at a 64 pt pace, Dahlin at 55 pt pace.  I think it’s a reasonable expectation that Dahlin will be over 60 next season.  Also, due to the size deference, I think Dahlin has a significantly higher ceiling.

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24 minutes ago, Curt said:

That’s fair.  Just the numbers:  Hughes was at a 64 pt pace, Dahlin at 55 pt pace.  I think it’s a reasonable expectation that Dahlin will be over 60 next season.  Also, due to the size deference, I think Dahlin has a significantly higher ceiling.

Will be fun to watch. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 12:36 PM, Cal Naughton Jr said:


I really couldn’t agree more. He needs to make some big strides this season to live up to his pre draft hype. I’ve seen flashes but he needs to put it all together 

I can agree with this, with the couple caveats being, it doesn't necessarily need to be THIS season, and the other being that it should be noted he's absolutely "on schedule" given his age what what we've seen him do at those ages. 

The desire to see proof is totally fair, I just don't think there should be any trace of angst, yet, imo. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 12:50 PM, LGR4GM said:

Fun fact. The kid who has only played in the nhl as a teen is second for most points by a teenage defender. 

More fun facts, he's gained 20lbs. 

More more fun facts, he's the best defender on the Sabres roster. 

Yes.

On 11/16/2020 at 1:09 PM, dudacek said:

That's not what the post was trying to imply. I agree there is a significant gap between what Eichel and Dahlin have accomplished

That said, Dahlin did more compared to the field as a teenage defenceman than Jack did as a teenage forward.

Salient. 

On 11/16/2020 at 2:01 PM, inkman said:

Another fun fact, he’s made some of the worst passes I’ve ever seen any player make.  

Not as bad as this one, though: 

 

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