So what is Jbot’s plan for the Sabres?

[TrueBlueGED]

OK, so while everyone wants to burn this thing to the ground right now, I think patience and a deliberate approach is called for.

 

Playoffs aren’t happening this year. We as fans need to accept that and understand that the team needs to use this season to figure out who is going to be part of the solution next year and beyond. For those who aren’t, the team needs to maximize the return they get for them.

 

That means no knee-jerk trade of Risto or Reino out of a desperate desire to light a fire under these guys. And no firing Howie or bringing in Lindy or Tippet as an assistant or consultant.

 

Between now and the deadline, Howie and JBott are going to figure out who can be coached up and who can’t, who burns to win and who doesn’t, and who can make a difference.

 

In the meantime, there are going to be plenty of losses.

Agreed on all counts. Make no mistake, this absolutely sucks for us fans right now. But the last thing in the world we need is for Botterill to behave like a fan. Edited October 21, 2017 by TrueBlueGED

[SwampD]

I'm not conceding the playoffs yet.

[rickshaw]

How can this team be out played but the Canucks who were on back to back nights? I see the Canucks all the time here in Kelowna and they are not that good. 

There is no way they should outshoot us by such a wide margin. 

 

I spoke to someone today who is in the game and works with NHL'ers and he told me that this team is Eichel's team and that he runs the show. That the kids don't respect the older guys and that there is a big disconnect in the room. I believe him when he says this and while Eichel is the future, it is disappointing to hear that there is a lack of respect for the older players and coach last year etc. That there is no accountability in Buffalo. Now this was in the summer so it remains to be seen how the culture of the club changes if at all. But it's clear that this team is going nowhere until they all believe and trust one another. 

[Pokey Jones]

As I've said before, fans are too accepting of this sort of attitude as normal, and so the players are too.

 

Losing would be acceptable. Unfortunate and sad but acceptable - IF they actually gave it real effort every night. Just give me a team that cares and tries to win not this.........whatever this is. 

[Randall Flagg]

Fans' accepting attitude causes the players to be okay with losing.

 

What planet does this idea keep coming from. I'd like to name that planet trash planet.

 

The Sabres have

 

Opened the pocket books to try and get stars via free agency

okayed big trades

tanked when those didn't work out

fired the coach and GM two years after the tank ended

Completely revamped the scouting department

 

What is the secret sauce? What is the one thing that will surely make us a good team that they aren't doing because the "fans are accepting" still? And why aren't they doing it now? Why is Pokey Jones' idea of the general state of mind of millions of fans dispersed across the world somehow keeping the Sabres from doing this last key ingredient? What kind of worldview is this?

[Sabel79]

Masochists.

[Thorny]

OK, so while everyone wants to burn this thing to the ground right now, I think patience and a deliberate approach is called for.

Playoffs aren’t happening this year. We as fans need to accept that and understand that the team needs to use this season to figure out who is going to be part of the solution next year and beyond. For those who aren’t, the team needs to maximize the return they get for them.

That means no knee-jerk trade of Risto or Reino out of a desperate desire to light a fire under these guys. And no firing Howie or bringing in Lindy or Tippet as an assistant or consultant.

Between now and the deadline, Howie and JBott are going to figure out who can be coached up and who can’t, who burns to win and who doesn’t, and who can make a difference.

In the meantime, there are going to be plenty of losses.

Unfortunate, and true. Let's just hope those in charge are actually capable of fixing this mess.

 

I don't think trades in the near term should be ruled out completely though. If a good deal comes around that Botterill thinks will improve the team, he should make it. He should definitely be listening on Reinhart, for example, as per the rumours teams are asking about him.

 

It's just like you said though, that Botterill shouldn't trade him, or anyone, just to trade them.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

Fans' accepting attitude causes the players to be okay with losing.

What planet does this idea keep coming from. I'd like to name that planet trash planet.The Sabres have

 

Opened the pocket books to try and get stars via free agency

okayed big trades

tanked when those didn't work out

fired the coach and GM two years after the tank ended

Completely revamped the scouting department

 

What is the secret sauce? What is the one thing that will surely make us a good team that they aren't doing because the "fans are accepting" still? And why aren't they doing it now? Why is Pokey Jones' idea of the general state of mind of millions of fans dispersed across the world somehow keeping the Sabres from doing this last key ingredient? What kind of worldview is this?

 

The secret sauce was to build it organically from the beginning. Don’t make the big trades, draft a ton of kids at all positions (not just RW), and let them grow up together. Stability. As the kids grow up and some positions don’t get filled internally, then bring in winning vets to supplement the roster/fill holes.

 

We did everything but that. Thank you TM. Now Jbot is going to have to do it right. By season’s end Lehner and Kane should be traded. Bogo and Moulson should be banished/bought out/released or traded. Ullmark, Nylander, Baptiste, Smith and Fasching should all be in the NHL with at least 30 games to go to see if they can make it. Possibly Guhle also.

 

This is all we have left at this point. Wowie and Jbot aren’t going anywhere. We have no choice if we are going to remain Sabres fans but to see this through and hope Jbot does it right.

 

I also think is incumbent on Housley to adjust his coaching to make the best out of what he has. I know he wants us to be Nashville, but we don’t have the talent. We may need to take a page out of Van’s playbook and play to our strengths whatever they may be.

 

That said; I’m sending Griffith down, putting Nolan in the pressbox and releasing Pouliot. I’m bringing up Redmond and CJ Smith.

[Thorny]

The best silver lining I can think of here is at least we can watch Jack Eichel put up serious points and score with the top players in the game while we wait for Botterill to remake things.

 

He's already found his way into the top 10 in scoring and I think it'll at least be fun watching him stay there.

 

It's something.

[nucci]

OK, so while everyone wants to burn this thing to the ground right now, I think patience and a deliberate approach is called for.

 

Playoffs aren’t happening this year. We as fans need to accept that and understand that the team needs to use this season to figure out who is going to be part of the solution next year and beyond. For those who aren’t, the team needs to maximize the return they get for them.

 

That means no knee-jerk trade of Risto or Reino out of a desperate desire to light a fire under these guys. And no firing Howie or bringing in Lindy or Tippet as an assistant or consultant.

 

Between now and the deadline, Howie and JBott are going to figure out who can be coached up and who can’t, who burns to win and who doesn’t, and who can make a difference.

 

In the meantime, there are going to be plenty of losses.

It's the Buffalo mentality. Bills fans want to do the same thing...Trade everyone for draft picks. Look how well that is working out for the Browns. I'm tired of watching crappy teams every year

[Radar]

I'm not conceding the playoffs yet.

I am but I was before the season started. Fans keep talking about Toronto. Well, I think Toronto is just better than us top to bottom. We're not as good as many seem to think. We have more talent than Pokey thinks but we're not a playoff team. Like it or not there is more team building to do. Hopefully JBot is a guy that can do it. I like the concept of building up your system and not trying to buy or trade your way to a team. One thing Pokey says that I'll agree with is just give me a full effort while this building process v takes place.

[nucci]

I am but I was before the season started. Fans keep talking about Toronto. Well, I think Toronto is just better than us top to bottom. We're not as good as many seem to think. We have more talent than Pokey thinks but we're not a playoff team. Like it or not there is more team building to do. Hopefully JBot is a guy that can do it. I like the concept of building up your system and not trying to buy or trade your way to a team. One thing Pokey says that I'll agree with is just give me a full effort while this building process v takes place.

Who thinks this team is any good?

[ubkev]

I'm tired of watching crappy teams every year

I think you're just gonna have to get used to it.

 

Yup, definitely.

[Scottysabres]

Talent that f8nds chemistry in the forward ranks.

 

Talent period in the defensive ranks.

 

Goaltending that provides better consistency at both the starting position and backup.

 

Where are these things going to come from?

Time, that is where. This team is 12 to 14 players short of finding these things, it will take time.

[SwampD]

Fans' accepting attitude causes the players to be okay with losing.

 

What planet does this idea keep coming from. I'd like to name that planet trash planet.

The Sabres have

 

Opened the pocket books to try and get stars via free agency

okayed big trades

tanked when those didn't work out

fired the coach and GM two years after the tank ended

Completely revamped the scouting department

 

What is the secret sauce? What is the one thing that will surely make us a good team that they aren't doing because the "fans are accepting" still? And why aren't they doing it now? Why is Pokey Jones' idea of the general state of mind of millions of fans dispersed across the world somehow keeping the Sabres from doing this last key ingredient? What kind of worldview is this?

 

 

 

The planet where players on a team actually got angry at fans for cheering losses.

[Neo]

I believe we’re looking at several years at a minimum. We may not compete until 2020. There aren’t player acquisition or system overhauls that will turn any terrible group into a good group. I think you find talent early, develop it, and deploy it when it’s ready. That talent develops alongside other talent that developed the same way in an earlier cycle. Detroit, Pittsburgh, St Louis for decades, and so on.

 

A large risk is the unknown ability of TP, JB and PH. I’m encouraged that TP may have learned that “trust the process” beats “make a splash” over at One Bills Drive. I’m encouraged by JB’s Pittsburgh upbringing.

 

The Tank gutted this team; hands, feet, heart and soul. It had an impact on Rochester and concession vendors. Jack Eichel is an excellent hockey player. The price was too dear. We iced an expansion team in 2015.

 

Draft talent into a sound structure and let it grow.

 

Trust the Process. The bad news about this approach is that it takes time to work. The good news is that it sticks around after it starts producing.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Neo

[Rasmus_]

I have faith in the moves that were made in the sense that Pominville has been undeniably rejuvenated by playing on Jack's right side.  In terms of Scandella, who is coming off of major hip surgery; I would give him his due time to come into form.  The defense is definitely an issue.  The bottom six is a mess, and Lehner/Johnson have been terrible so far.  One saving grace is that Botterill did not go out and spend up superfluous amounts on mid tier talent.  They tried to create depth with low cost one year deals.  Most of these can ultimately be traded off or waived.  So the bad (contracts): Moulson, Bogosian; we are likely stuck with unless a miracle happens.  Okposo has some form of NMC/NTC, and at his salary should start picking it up. He could be desirable to another team. All in all it's a transition (again) that no one wants to see.  I personally am tired of losing to teams like (Vancouver, Las Vegas) and others in that similar boat.  

[Radar]

Who thinks this team is any good?

Refer you back to Swamps post I was responding to. He said he wasn't conceding playoffs yet. I didn't think they were a playoff team to begin with. Oh, another thing. Many posts here have led me to believe many think this is a good team just lacking effort.

[darksabre]

I believe we’re looking at several years at a minimum. We may not compete until 2020. There aren’t player acquisition or system overhauls that will turn any terrible group into a good group. I think you find talent early, develop it, and deploy it when it’s ready. That talent develops alongside other talent that developed the same way in an earlier cycle. Detroit, Pittsburgh, St Louis for decades, and so on.

 

A large risk is the unknown ability of TP, JB and PH. I’m encouraged that TP may have learned that “trust the process” beats “make a splash” over at One Bills Drive. I’m encouraged by JB’s Pittsburgh upbringing.

 

The Tank gutted this team; hands, feet, heart and soul. It had an impact on Rochester and concession vendors. Jack Eichel is an excellent hockey player. The price was too dear. We iced an expansion team in 2015.

 

Draft talent into a sound structure and let it grow.

 

Trust the Process. The bad news about this approach is that it takes time to work. The good news is that it sticks around after it starts producing.

The problem with this is... They don't have time. Ever year that Jack is on this team and they're bad is money and time flushed down the drain.

 

J-Bot needs to figure out what to do to make this team somewhat competitive, even if they can't win. If they're going to lose, they need to be doing it with fire and passion.

[Sabel79]

The planet where players on a team actually got angry at fans for cheering losses.

Not to nitpick, but literally everyone other than Mike Weber understood what that was all about.

[Randall Flagg]

The secret sauce was to build it organically from the beginning. Don’t make the big trades, draft a ton of kids at all positions (not just RW), and let them grow up together. Stability. As the kids grow up and some positions don’t get filled internally, then bring in winning vets to supplement the roster/fill holes.

 

We did everything but that. Thank you TM. Now Jbot is going to have to do it right. By season’s end Lehner and Kane should be traded. Bogo and Moulson should be banished/bought out/released or traded. Ullmark, Nylander, Baptiste, Smith and Fasching should all be in the NHL with at least 30 games to go to see if they can make it. Possibly Guhle also.

 

This is all we have left at this point. Wowie and Jbot aren’t going anywhere. We have no choice if we are going to remain Sabres fans but to see this through and hope Jbot does it right.

 

I also think is incumbent on Housley to adjust his coaching to make the best out of what he has. I know he wants us to be Nashville, but we don’t have the talent. We may need to take a page out of Van’s playbook and play to our strengths whatever they may be.

 

That said; I’m sending Griffith down, putting Nolan in the pressbox and releasing Pouliot. I’m bringing up Redmond and CJ Smith.

So we did everything but that because of the mental state of millions of fans spread all over the country and globe? And had those fans been just a little angrier online and in letters to the Buffalo News, they'd have done it the right way but they figured they'd cheat out of it because "hey the fans are fine w/ it"?

 

If anything, logic would dictate that angry fans would be the REASON they tried to rush the rebuild, not the reason they didn't do it the right way. But the fans had nothing to do with it in reality either way.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jack is almost 21. Sam almost 22. We have 2-3 years to fix this mess and still get 8-10 years out of Jack and Sam at top form.

 

Z, Risto and Bailey are also 23 or less.

 

The key is Asplund, Nylander, Mittelstadt and Guhle and someone like Borgen making an impact on your roster. That means top 9 for the forwards and any pairing for the D. This is alot to ask as our draft pick and development track record isn’t very good.

 

But if don’t get these results, this team might never recover.

[Scottysabres]

Jack is almost 21. Sam almost 22. We have 2-3 years to fix this mess and still get 8-10 years out of Jack and Sam at top form.

Z, Risto and Bailey are also 23 or less.

The key is Asplund, Nylander, Mittelstadt and Guhle and someone like Borgen making an impact on your roster. That means top 9 for the forwards and any pairing for the D. This is alot to ask as our draft pick and development track record isn’t very good.

But if don’t get these results, this team might never recover.

After watching them in person last night, it'll take more than a few hits from talent within the pipeline....sadly.

[Neo]

The problem with this is... They don't have time. Ever year that Jack is on this team and they're bad is money and time flushed down the drain.

J-Bot needs to figure out what to do to make this team somewhat competitive, even if they can't win. If they're going to lose, they need to be doing it with fire and passion.

I agree. I actually thought about that as I wrote. We may be one third of the way through Jack’s extension before “the process” begins to bear fruit. I look at that as a deeply unfortunate sunk cost. There may be a Mozart who can grab pieces, unexpectedly from here and from there, and put the end result in place without growing it. It’s happened. I just don’t think it happens dependably.

 

We were here before this roster iteration. We’ll be here after it. Give me a franchise with an identity, a plan, and deep pockets. I’ll wait.

 

Think of the children!

[GASabresIUFAN]

So we did everything but that because of the mental state of millions of fans spread all over the country and globe? And had those fans been just a little angrier online and in letters to the Buffalo News, they'd have done it the right way but they figured they'd cheat out of it because "hey the fans are fine w/ it"?

 

If anything, logic would dictate that angry fans would be the REASON they tried to rush the rebuild, not the reason they didn't do it the right way. But the fans had nothing to do with it in reality either way.

The Sabres sent out a flyer to season ticket holders listing all the draft picks and suggesting the type of rebuild I mentioned, and then proceeded to not follow the script. Had they done what they said they were going to do and rebuild properly, the fanbase, who were on board with the tank, would have enjoyed the incremental improvement because they would have see the growth that meet with their expectations.

 

On the other hand, TM reset the expectations with a stated 3 year rebuild. He traded for young vets (mostly from losing cultures) spent money like a drunken sailor, and still built a crappy roster. TM’s team failed to meet the expectations he set and the collective anger is a reflection of that. Most of the targets of that anger, Moulson, Gorges, Bogo, Lehner, Kane, and even KO and ROR, the acquired big $ players, are still here. Until they are gone, in part or completely, then the fans will continue to be angry over their poor play.

 

I said all off-season that Moulson and Gorges should never lace it up again for this team. I would have ate their 9 mill in salary and sent both down just to make room for others. Bogo, aka Mr. Glass, needs to be bought out at seasons’s end. Kane and Lehner need to traded. ROR and KO aren’t going anywhere. I actually really like KO. I’m worried based on what we have seen on the ice, that he is still not fully recovered from his concussion. He may end up in the Lupul loophole.

Edited October 21, 2017 by GASabresFan