So what is Jbot’s plan for the Sabres?

[SwampD]

Who used the term idiots? I don't think that at all, about anyone on either side of the debate. All fans, here.

 

---

 

So is no one accountable for the decade of ineptitude, because the regime has changed so many times? Fresh start each time? Seriously asking.

I get it. You're pissed. We all are, but that's an argument for another time. Right now we're talking about whether we should be freaking out after only four games.

[Thorny]

I get it. You're pissed. We all are, but that's an argument for another time. Right now we're talking about whether we should be freaking out after only four games.

You are right.

 

And the question is one I believe to be an interesting one. I suppose it depends on how much we think where this season started will affect where it finishes, and how much more potential for further growth the decade long cloud has going forward. Is this season the start of something new, finally? Or a continuation. Are we at the beginning, middle, or end of something? I find that hard to say.

 

We thought Murray was the beginning. He was not, he was a continuation. Maybe Botterill represents true change.

 

It's a fine balance between "fool me once..." and "fresh start, takes time". We've been sold one, masquerading as the other, before.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Thorny

[TrueBlueGED]

I think there are perfectly reasonable concerns to voice after four games. Things like whether the roster changes were actually meaningful upgrades, for instance. Concern that the roster is any more than a high 80-point team.

 

On the other hand, thinking O'Reilly forgot how to play hockey over the summer, I don't think is especially reasonable. The "it's time for another rebuild" is another.

 

But as usual, I think the histrionics are preventing good hockey debate from taking place.

You are right.

 

And the question is one I believe to be an interesting one. I suppose it depends on how much we think where this season started will affect where it finishes, and how much more potential for further growth the decade long cloud has going forward. Is this season the start of something new, finally? Or a continuation. Are we are the beginning, middle, or end of something? I find that hard to say.

This is all fair to talk about. And lo and behold, you were able to do so without self immolating because the team is ruining your life. Other people? Not so much. Edited October 15, 2017 by TrueBlueGED

[LTS]

Who used the term idiots? I don't think that at all, about anyone on either side of the debate. All fans, here.

 

---

 

So is no one accountable for the decade of ineptitude, because the regime has changed so many times? Fresh start each time? Seriously asking.

No one is accountable. The owner isn't even the same. Who do you want to blame? Do guy want to blame Housley for Ron Rolston?

 

Is Jack Eichel responsible for the lack of success of this team before he was drafted?

 

If the goal of any team is to win a Cup then we are way beyond 10 years of ineptitude... That's a ton of baggage. If today's players have to carry it how do you expect them to skate?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jack and Phil are not responsible for the past, but they are for the future. Jack is delivering.

 

Still what is they plan? Build through the draft. Trade away what you can and go real young? Make a few hockey trades if possible? What is the time table?

 

When does Jbot start making moves if this losing streak continues?

Edited October 15, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Ducky]

I think Botterill will take his time and evaluate all positions that are under him including the farm and scouting personnel. I think most major moves will be next off-season after he has had a good long look at things. I would guess he will make some changes to the scouting department if he hasn't already. He must have discussed some kind of plan and how long it will take to get there with the owners before he was hired.

If I had to guess, I would think he would try to get rid of KO in the summer and Kaner at or before the TD. I don't know the Sabres well enough to know if you have a replacement at 2C for ROR but the biggest problem the Jets had was losing Little last year. It changed the whole lineup including PK and PP. Second line centers don't grow on trees. You'd get a lot back for Kane and Okposo to maybe fill someneeds on the team. Not sure what you would get for Bogo but is he a 2nd pair RHD or no?

I'd give Lehner some patience, the whole team is learning new systems under the new HC and it will take some time. I'll tell you this much though, the team that gets first pick next summer will have a superstar D man in Dahlin for years to come.

[Randall Flagg]

He should probably waive Pouliot so Phil stops using him. 

[Scottysabres]

Well, here is what we now know on what Bots need to fix. I call it the "Ville Leino" scale.

 

Whoever Phil puts on Jacks left wing - Jack - Pommers

Ville Leino - Ville Leino - Ville Leino

Ville Leino - Ville Leino - Ville Leino

Ville Leino - Ville Leino - Ville Leino

 

Ville Leino - Risto

Ville Leino - Ville Leino

Ville Leino - Ville Leino

 

Ville Leino

Ville Leino

 

As you can see, there is a ton of work to do.

[GASabresIUFAN]

LMAO.  I'm crying! To Funny!  Thank you I needed that!

Edited October 15, 2017 by GASabresFan

[dejeanerret]

I’m usually more optimistic about things. Maybe it’s the lack out effort I’ve seen these 4 games, but I think this team is simple bad. I complained about last year’s roster, especially on D. I thought Jbot had fixed it.

 

However.....

Scandella looks like damaged goods,

I knew Baloo had some D zone issues, but really this bad?

I knew Antipin would need time to adjust, I wonder if they can get him to go down to get more experience?

I had hope for Tennyson based on his pre-season play, but now it’s clear why he is a AAAA player.

And now both McCabe and Risto look lost.

 

It’s really maddening.

 

I also was worried about the bottom 6 forwards and they are as bad as expected. However KO and ROR failing to show up for the start of the season is inexcusable.

 

This is just another bad Sabres team top to bottom. We only have 4 players showing up for work, Jack, Pommers, Z and Kane.

Keep in mind the team isn't totally turned over.

 

You have players like Moulson and Gorges who don't fit the system.  Also presence in front of the net continues to be a problem.

 

I said at the start of the season to give Reinhart a year in a new system.  So far he is stinking things up.  Vs. Kings I hear Ray specifically point him out being behind the net instead of in front of it.  I think he is going to be another player that is going to be traded sooner than later.  

 

You also have guys like Tennyson playing who should be in the minors due to Bogosian injury.  

 

Add to the mix the fact that the players seem to be taking longer than at least Housley thought to get acclimated to the new system.  It's not like Lehner is playing lights out either.

 

Right now the team isn't playing with much confidence, which is shocking considering how everyone was talking fresh slate in September.

 

But between still having players that don't fit the system as well as the rest of the team trying to acclimate the Sabres are just stinking up the place.  

 

I live in Vegas, and seeing a inaugural franchise start the season with 3 wins with players who have never played together before in a system they have never played before makes the Sabres situation a headscratcher.  

 

At some point before Xmas the light has to come on.  Or this team will be in deep s&*!

Edited October 15, 2017 by dejeanerret

[Scottysabres]

LMAO.  I'm crying! To Funny!  Thank you I needed that!

Don't feel alone, as I was typing it out I just burst in to random chuckles, giggles and tears came :)

[GASabresIUFAN]

Keep in mind the team isn't totally turned over.

 

You have players like Moulson and Gorges who don't fit the system.  Also presence in front of the net continues to be a problem.

 

I said at the start of the season to give Reinhart a year in a new system.  So far he is stinking things up.  Vs. Kings I hear Ray specifically point him out being behind the net instead of in front of it.  I think he is going to be another player that is going to be traded sooner than later.  

 

You also have guys like Tennyson playing who should be in the minors due to Bogosian injury.  

 

Add to the mix the fact that the players seem to be taking longer than at least Housley thought to get acclimated to the new system.  It's not like Lehner is playing lights out either.

 

Right now the team isn't playing with much confidence, which is shocking considering how everyone was talking fresh slate in September.

 

But between still having players that don't fit the system as well as the rest of the team trying to acclimate the Sabres are just stinking up the place.  

 

I live in Vegas, and seeing a inaugural franchise start the season with 3 wins with players who have never played together before in a system they have never played before makes the Sabres situation a headscratcher.  

 

At some point before Xmas the light has to come on.  Or this team will be in deep s&*!

 

Nice post, but the Vegas point is well taken.  Why is an expansion team playing well, while a team with a true superstar and other proven players who have experience playing together stink?  It's not all these guys haven't played and played  well under a variety of system as they came up through the ranks and played for various coaches and teams in the NHL.  The lack of professionalism and effort is astounding.  

 

If the Sabres don't win later today against ANA, I think Jbot needs to be at the Buffalo airport with some tickets to Roch/Pink Slips for some players.  Others need to be sent to the pressbox.  To keep playing guys who aren't putting forth the necessary efforts needs to be punished and someone, even someone like ROR, needs to be made an example of.

 

Pouliot is an easy target, but what message does that convery?  That said, I'd rather have Gionta back then watch Pouliot for another game. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by GASabresFan

[dejeanerret]

OReilly/Reinhart/Okposo totals

 

14 Games.  0 Goals, 1 Assist, -18 +/- (Reinhart is -8)

 

Minus frickin 18.  And were only 5 games in.

 

OReilly and Okposo make up roughly 20% of the Sabres cap space.

 

Unacceptable.

[Pokey Jones]

Well obviously the plan depends on how the team does. As it is going, I suspect we see a yard sale, but honestly, there isn't going to be much demand for the players we will want to get rid of except maybe for Kane and maybe (although unlikely) for Reinhart or possibly Lehner.

 

I said this before but it is worth repeating, there is a disconnect between the fans view and management's. To them, this is year 1 of a rebuild. To us it's we want in the playoffs now we are tired of losing.

 

So as has been said above, he is rebuilding the organization from the foundation, from Rochester, hopefully in the scouting department. from the ground up.

 

It's going to take time, Murray was a disaster.   

[dejeanerret]

Nice post, but the Vegas point is well taken.  Why is an expansion team playing well, while a team with a true superstar and other proven players who have experience playing together stink?  It's not all these guys haven't played and played  well under a variety of system as they came up through the ranks and played for various coaches and teams in the NHL.  The lack of professionalism and effort is astounding.  

 

If the Sabres don't win later today against ANA, I think Jbot needs to be at the Buffalo airport with some tickets to Roch/Pink Slips for some players.  Others need to be sent to the pressbox.  To keep playing guys who aren't putting forth the necessary efforts needs to be punished and someone, even someone like ROR, needs to be made an example of.

 

Pouliot is an easy target, but what message does that convery?  That said, I'd rather have Gionta back then watch Pouliot for another game. 

I agree.  Pouliot is playing horrible.  Baloo has made too many mental errors. At this rate we'll be very active at trade deadline with guys like Fasching, Bailey and Guhle coming up to play.  Actually think Fasching and Bailey would be better than Moulson and Reinhart.  Gorges being a FA is all but a goner at deadline.

[WildCard]

 

/thread

[GASabresIUFAN]

Pokey, I agree with you in general, but at some point we have to start seeing something moving forward on the ice in the NHL.  We have one of the elite players in the NHL, and maybe a no.2 D (Risto) and as of right now, that's it. We are talking 3 more years in the celler then.  That's not acceptable anymore to this fan base.  

 

I agree that TM was a disaster.

[Thorny]

No one is accountable. The owner isn't even the same. Who do you want to blame? Do guy want to blame Housley for Ron Rolston?

Is Jack Eichel responsible for the lack of success of this team before he was drafted?

If the goal of any team is to win a Cup then we are way beyond 10 years of ineptitude... That's a ton of baggage. If today's players have to carry it how do you expect them to skate?

Just because no one is strictly accountable doesn't mean the fan base can't be frustrated with the franchise as a whole, for the failures of the previous decade, and this season so far. They don't have to necessarily be winning cups for the franchise to be putting out a successful product. Anyways, I don't think we will find much common ground here, makes sense to steer the conversation more towards what the OP intended:

 

Jack and Phil are not responsible for the past, but they are for the future. Jack is delivering.

Still what is they plan? Build through the draft. Trade away what you can and go real young? Make a few hockey trades if possible? What is the time table?

When does Jbot start making moves if this losing streak continues?

It's hard to say what the plan is. Some of Housley's lineup decisions are failing to bring clarity to the situation, as well.

 

OReilly/Reinhart/Okposo totals

 

14 Games.  0 Goals, 1 Assist, -18 +/- (Reinhart is -8)

 

Minus frickin 18.  And were only 5 games in.

 

OReilly and Okposo make up roughly 20% of the Sabres cap space.

 

Unacceptable.

One of, if not the biggest problem right now, in a nutshell.

[mjd1001]

OReilly/Reinhart/Okposo totals

 

14 Games.  0 Goals, 1 Assist, -18 +/- (Reinhart is -8)

 

Minus frickin 18.  And were only 5 games in.

 

OReilly and Okposo make up roughly 20% of the Sabres cap space.

 

Unacceptable.

 

What is of note regarding this?  All 3 of those players have average or below average skating speed. (and yes, O'reilly IS slow, when I watch him coming up the ice he is clearly slower with or without the puck than many others around him)

 

Kane, Girgensons, Eichel, and Pomminstein are at the top of the scoring list for the Sabres, all players with above average to great skating speed. (of course it helps they are getting points off of each other).

 

Not only is speed getting more important in the NHL ever year (this year even more than last year) but it also seems if you want to play the new system, it is even more important to this team.

 

Players who are slow or even average when it comes to speed are falling behind on this team and in the league.  We may NEVER get what we want/expect out of ROR/Okposo/Reinhart because of this.  It will be interesting to watch a few more weeks to see if this is indeed true, but it looks like it to me.

Edited October 15, 2017 by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

I'd say the plan is to develop what he has, evaluate and move out who doesn't fit, and try to implement a system in Buffalo and Rochester that allows kids to plug and play in the lineup

[Scottysabres]

I'd say the plan is to develop what he has, evaluate and move out who doesn't fit, and try to implement a system in Buffalo and Rochester that allows kids to plug and play in the lineup

I agree with this.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Yes that is the Pitt way, but.....

 

Pitt also has been known for making in season deals and moves to help the NHL club. How soon do we start seeing Jbot change course here?

[LTS]

Just because no one is strictly accountable doesn't mean the fan base can't be frustrated with the franchise as a whole, for the failures of the previous decade, and this season so far. They don't have to necessarily be winning cups for the franchise to be putting out a successful product. Anyways, I don't think we will find much common ground here, makes sense to steer the conversation more towards what the OP intended:

 

 

It's hard to say what the plan is. Some of Housley's lineup decisions are failing to bring clarity to the situation, as well.

 

 

One of, if not the biggest problem right now, in a nutshell.

 

The word is accountable.  The frustration of the fan base, or more specifically, the frustration level of each individual fan is their own cross to bear.  From a business perspective the ownership certainly understands that a stretch of overall poor performance will wear thin on its customers.  If the ownership was the same you could at least say they are accountable for the entirety of this streak (the past decade) but the ownership has changed, the GM has changed, the players have changed, the coaching has changed.

 

Fans can be as upset as they want to be but focus the blame for that frustration where it belongs.  If you allow the actions of another to cause you to be frustrated then its on you, not them.  They are under no obligation to change their behavior to meet your expectations.  It can be argued that changes could lead to a better overall scenario but that doesn't mean it has to happen.

 

I think, right now, Housley is trying to learn more about this team.  I'd have to look more last night.  I didn't like putting Kane up on the Eichel line but it did work.  I think he began moving Reinhart up with ROR and Kane because he showed at the beginning of the game he was going to play harder.  Some of the decision making of who was on the ice and when may be suspect but I'd have to know if they had just been on the ice.

 

Housley is a new head coach with 5 games under his belt.  He's learning too.  The question is do you believe he has the capacity to lead this team as they progress. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

LTS, you need help with your facts. TP took over at the end of Jan 2011, the team’s last playoff season. He kept Regier, he approved the tank, he hired Patty, and he hired TM etc.. The six straight seasons without a playoff appearance are on him. He should have dumped Regier that first off-season, put together a real hockey program and built stability then, not 6 years later.

[Thorny]

LTS, you need help with your facts. TP took over at the end of Jan 2011, the team’s last playoff season. He kept Regier, he approved the tank, he hired Patty, and he hired TM etc.. The six straight seasons without a playoff appearance are on him. He should have dumped Regier that first off-season, put together a real hockey program and built stability then, not 6 years later.

Yup.