So what is Jbot’s plan for the Sabres?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Jbot inherited a terrible over paid and in some areas under talented team that was poorly coached. He also inherited a prospect pipeline with limited near ready talent but some bright spots 2 years down the line.

 

So what did he do? He made value oriented moves, rebuilt some system depth. Brought in a hot coach for his 1st NHL HC gig. Appeared to re-invigorate the D group, but didn’t do much to upgrade the forwards.

 

So what is his plan? Is his plan to move us forward this year or is it to further clean house? Are we witnessing tank 2.0? It kind of appears this way.

[Scottysabres]

Rochester has had a great early start to their season. Bots was known for his pipeline prowess in the burg.

The only question I really have is on the Bogo, Moulson and Okposo contracts. Is he going to let Bogo's and Moulsons run their course, and what of Okposo? If he doesn't produce at a pace on par with 6 mil a season, will be move him?

[Radar]

This is all after four games? Really??

[LTS]

Jbot inherited a terrible over paid and in some areas under talented team that was poorly coached. He also inherited a prospect pipeline with limited near ready talent but some bright spots 2 years down the line.

 

So what did he do? He made value oriented moves, rebuilt some system depth. Brought in a hot coach for his 1st NHL HC gig. Appeared to re-invigorate the D group, but didn’t do much to upgrade the forwards.

 

So what is his plan? Is his plan to move us forward this year or is it to further clean house? Are we witnessing tank 2.0? It kind of appears this way.

 

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of what he inherited.

 

As for his plan... nothing has changed since he took over the team.  It's as he said it was.  If you aren't sure of it, go back and find him talking about it.

 

There is an appearance of things being worse than they are.

Edited October 14, 2017 by LTS

[LGR4GM]

This is all after four games? Really??

Yea the fan base has lost it. October was always gonna suck.

[Brawndo]

To build a team that can consistently compete for championships

[SwampD]

I think if I hear (or see) the term "tank 2.0" one more time I'm going to go out and punch the first baby I see.

[LGR4GM]

I think if I hear (or see) the term "tank 2.0" one more time I'm going to go out and punch the first baby I see.

It won't happen intentionally if it happens, therefore it would just be sucking

[GASabresIUFAN]

It won't happen intentionally if it happens, therefore it would just be sucking

I’m usually more optimistic about things. Maybe it’s the lack out effort I’ve seen these 4 games, but I think this team is simple bad. I complained about last year’s roster, especially on D. I thought Jbot had fixed it.

 

However.....

Scandella looks like damaged goods,

I knew Baloo had some D zone issues, but really this bad?

I knew Antipin would need time to adjust, I wonder if they can get him to go down to get more experience?

I had hope for Tennyson based on his pre-season play, but now it’s clear why he is a AAAA player.

And now both McCabe and Risto look lost.

 

It’s really maddening.

 

I also was worried about the bottom 6 forwards and they are as bad as expected. However KO and ROR failing to show up for the start of the season is inexcusable.

 

This is just another bad Sabres team top to bottom. We only have 4 players showing up for work, Jack, Pommers, Z and Kane.

[LGR4GM]

I'll give them till November

[GASabresIUFAN]

Seriously, what is the long-term plan. What pieces is he really building around besides Jack and Risto. Does he want KO and ROR or does he think Mittelstadt and Nylander and the second line of the future.

 

When does he think we should be competitive? Etc...

 

It seems obvious now that this off-season was beginning a transition to his roster.

[LTS]

Seriously, what is the long-term plan. What pieces is he really building around besides Jack and Risto. Does he want KO and ROR or does he think Mittelstadt and Nylander and the second line of the future.

 

When does he think we should be competitive? Etc...

 

It seems obvious now that this off-season was beginning a transition to his roster.

 

No way to know.  If he signs Kane then it's part of his plan.  If he trades ROR its part of his plan.  I mean, at the moment KO and ROR are hard sells for a trade.  We are who we are right now and he can only do so much.  

[Thorny]

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of what he inherited.

 

As for his plan... nothing has changed since he took over the team. It's as he said it was. If you aren't sure of it, go back and find him talking about it.

 

There is an appearance of things being worse than they are.

We are dead last in the NHL, with the longest non-playoff streak in the league. The appearances are accurate thus far.

I'll give them till November

They'd be out of the playoff picture by then.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Thorny

[nucci]

Seriously, what is the long-term plan. What pieces is he really building around besides Jack and Risto. Does he want KO and ROR or does he think Mittelstadt and Nylander and the second line of the future.

 

When does he think we should be competitive? Etc...

 

It seems obvious now that this off-season was beginning a transition to his roster.

Same thing with the Bills. Pegulas need to stop firing coaches and GMs every 2-3 years...this is what you get

[LTS]

We are dead last in the NHL, with the longest non-playoff streak in the league. The appearances are accurate thus far.

 

They'd be out of the playoff picture by then.

 

They are dead last in the NHL with nearly 50% of the roster being changed out and a new coach and having played 4 games.  Four whole games.  Everyone has seen the players who were here last year perform and yet everyone wants to say how washed up every player is already.  

 

Same thing with the Bills. Pegulas need to stop firing coaches and GMs every 2-3 years...this is what you get

 

It's a byproduct of it yes.  But the Bills are still largely comprised of the first GM.  The Sabres were arguably improving until the team revolted on the coach and then the GM when he backed the coach and not the players.

 

It's a setback and nothing more.  They have to adjust to the systems and learn to play together.  Yes, individually they have to improve as well.

[Thorny]

You are right, it's not like the fact they had to change 50% of the roster is indicative of anything being wrong. Sure, the 50% that's still here isn't playing well, in fact we haven't seen what we were used to from O'Reilly for coming up on what soon will be a calendar year, and teams usually don't plummet to last just from changing coaches...but the only logical thing is to just assume everything will be fine all the while being unreasonably optimistic. This many losing seasons in a row, I can't imagine why there would be more.

 

Yeesh. This high-horse view that some how posters who are finally getting worried and disappointed are "jumping the gun" after a decade of consistently poor results is laughable.

 

The new regime may very well turn it around. I'm hopeful for that. But any fan fed up at this point is being completely reasonable as far as I'm concerned.

 

I watch 80 games a year. I'm sure most do too. It's ok to expect more than dead last.

 

Even after 4 games.

[SwampD]

You are right, it's not like the fact they had to change 50% of the roster is indicative of anything being wrong. Sure, the 50% that's still here isn't playing well, in fact we haven't seen what we were used to from O'Reilly for coming up on what soon will be a calendar year, and teams usually don't plummet to last just from changing coaches...but the only logical thing is to just assume everything will be fine all the while being unreasonably optimistic. This many losing seasons in a row, I can't imagine why there would be more.

 

Yeesh. This high-horse view that some how posters who are finally getting worried and disappointed are "jumping the gun" after a decade of consistently poor results is laughable.

 

The new regime may very well turn it around. I'm hopeful for that. But any fan fed up at this point is being completely reasonable as far as I'm concerned.

 

I watch 80 games a year. I'm sure most do too. It's ok to expect more than dead last.

 

Even after 4 games.

It's not so High Horse once you realize that the same people "jumping the gun" after 4 games are some of the same that were yelling the loudest for a regime change, a regime that itself didn't have enough time for us to really know if what they were doing was going to work, given the steaming pile that they were handed.

[Thorny]

It's not so High Horse once you realize that the same people "jumping the gun" after 4 games are some of the same that were yelling the loudest for a regime change, a regime that itself didn't have enough time for us to really know if what they were doing was going to work, given the steaming pile that they were handed.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Bylsma, in that I was obviously blaming him for far too much. But I'm a fan, I'm not being paid to be right.

 

Me or anyone else being wrong about Bylsma doesn't really have anything to do with their ability to be disappointed in the product. It's not like we fired Bylsma. Don't blame the fans.

 

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that beyond even something like Flagg's excellent Bylsma analysis, fans attempting last year to lay all of, or the lion's share of the blame onto the coach is indicative of a more hopeful attitude: what a beautiful sporting world we would live in, if all that was needed was the replacement of a singe individual to become good again. That was a best case scenario. Now, we are stuck with the realization that we are saddled with, to use your words, a steaming pile.

 

I still have hope for this core. I'd like to see us start winning some damn hockey games.

 

Let's start with tonight.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Bylsma, in that I was obviously blaming him for far too much. But I'm a fan, I'm not being paid to be right.

 

Me or anyone else being wrong about Bylsma doesn't really have anything to do with their ability to be disappointed in the product. It's not like we fired Bylsma. Don't blame the fans.

 

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that beyond even something like Flagg's excellent Bylsma analysis, fans attempting last year to lay all of, or the lion's share of the blame onto the coach is indicative of a more hopeful attitude: what a beautiful sporting world we would live in, if all that was needed was the replacement of a singe individual to become good again. That was a best case scenario. Now, we are stuck with the realization that we are saddled with, to use your words, a steaming pile.

 

I still have hope for this core. I'd like to see us start winning some damn hockey games.

 

Let's start with tonight.

What were you wrong about exactly? Bylsma's system was poorly equipped for today's NHL, it showed that, he didn't adjust, and he was rightly fired for it, and will likely not ever see another job. You were right about him. The whole board was.

 

What Phil can or can't do with this roster means nothing with respect to anything that happened last year. In fact, I was probably the most cynical poster about the Housley hire on this board. Except maybe PA. I've been lukewarm about him but I'll give him the 88 games I gave Dan before the words "fire" and "Bylsma" first were joined in my posts.

 

And we're a win in one of our next two games away from having an identical start to last year anyway, so talk about drawing conclusions early.

 

Edited October 15, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Approximately 1/2 the roster changed this past summer.

 

It will take time for them to get used to each other and to the new coaches.

 

They will play better.

 

The thing is, though, the roster is still not good enough.

 

I did not blame Disco Dan for the Sabres troubles last season.  The roster was horrible. pretty much.

[erickompositör72]

Bylsma was good at minimizing risk and stifling talent.

 

We've now introduced risk and have been extremely sloppy- that can be fixed. I'm in the "give it time" camp.

 

But in the meantime, can we trade O'Reilly for Duchene?!

Edited October 15, 2017 by ericcomposer72

[GASabresIUFAN]

Actually I was not for firing DD. I said it was roster construction, not DD. I blamed TM for the poor trades, mismanagement of assets, dumb contracts and lousy drafting. I felt that DD wasn’t given the tools to succeed. After seeing the new look Sabres, I’m beginning to feel Jbot has handicapped Housley’s first season similarly to DD. The difference is I’m willing to wait and see what Jbot is going to do to fix it. However this doesn’t make me feel any better about how the guys not trying.

 

It also makes me ask, as I did in this thread, what is Jbot’s plan to get the right talent here.

Edited October 15, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Thorny]

What were you wrong about exactly? Bylsma's system was poorly equipped for today's NHL, it showed that, he didn't adjust, and he was rightly fired for it, and will likely not ever see another job. You were right about him. The whole board was.

What Phil can or can't do with this roster means nothing with respect to anything that happened last year. In fact, I was probably the most cynical poster about the Housley hire on this board. Except maybe PA. I've been lukewarm about him but I'll give him the 88 games I gave Dan before the words "fire" and "Bylsma" first were joined in my posts.

And we're a win in one of our next two games away from having an identical start to last year anyway, so talk about drawing conclusions early.

 

I was wrong about Bylsma, because I believed that his inept coaching was largely responsible for our poor play. In reality, it was likely only responsible for a portion. A portion probably smaller than I would have ever admitted last year. There are systematic roster issues that Bylsma didn't cause, he only exacerbated them.

 

I don't think I was wrong about him being a poor coach, I was wrong about how much ELSE was wrong. That is, how much of a "losses against replacement" Bylsma really caused.

 

With your last line, I might be missing your point. That we are trending very similarly to last year, is more support for the idea that things this season need to start improving soon, or it's likely another lost cause.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Thorny

[LTS]

The high horse view that those who think that giving it time are idiots is as equally offensive.

 

It's called a difference of opinion. We all have horses in this race and unless someone is clam baking their horse then no one's horse is high.

 

Using a decade of history to support your point is a bit of a stretch. The team has undergone massive change and continues to undergo change. As such the failures of past teams are not applicable to the future of the current team. They are not the same team, despite some of the players being the same.

[Thorny]

The high horse view that those who think that giving it time are idiots is as equally offensive.

It's called a difference of opinion. We all have horses in this race and unless someone is clam baking their horse then no one's horse is high.

Using a decade of history to support your point is a bit of a stretch. The team has undergone massive change and continues to undergo change. As such the failures of past teams are not applicable to the future of the current team. They are not the same team, despite some of the players being the same.

Who used the term idiots? I don't think that at all, about anyone on either side of the debate. All fans, here.

 

---

 

So is no one accountable for the decade of ineptitude, because the regime has changed so many times? Fresh start each time? Seriously asking.