That Aud Smell Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Apologies for not finding/seeing a more recent thread on the topic (like, one from this season), but I'd prefer to revive one rather than start one anew. This was just posted to the Twitter. Mike Kelly@MikeKellyNHL Top 5 forwards in puck battles won per game (even-strength): 1. O'Reilly - 4.0 2. Kopitar - 3.9 3. Matthews - 3.8 4. Barkov - 3.7 5. E. Staal - 3.6 In my mind, ROR had a really rough start to the season (mainly, he seemed super slow) and then maybe started to look better of late. But maybe that perception is/was off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Apologies for not finding/seeing a more recent thread on the topic (like, one from this season), but I'd prefer to revive one rather than start one anew. This was just posted to the Twitter. Mike Kelly@MikeKellyNHL Top 5 forwards in puck battles won per game (even-strength): 1. O'Reilly - 4.0 2. Kopitar - 3.9 3. Matthews - 3.8 4. Barkov - 3.7 5. E. Staal - 3.6 In my mind, ROR had a really rough start to the season (mainly, he seemed super slow) and then maybe started to look better of late. But maybe that perception is/was off? That is the first time I've ever seen that stat tracked. I wonder what qualifies as a puck battle victory. Seems a little sketchy, but the names on that list certainly pass the eye test in terms of winning puck battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 That is the first time I've ever seen that stat tracked. I wonder what qualifies as a puck battle victory. Seems a little sketchy, but the names on that list certainly pass the eye test in terms of winning puck battles. I think it’s something like NOT takeaway, NOT giveaway but puck battle. Two go in, one comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Is he worth 7.5 a season? No His value however, as a center that is tops in face off wins is heavily sought after. There are more than several teams who would pay handsomely for ROR. Would I move him as quickly as possible? Yes To where or who? Would prefer western conference. I would target Arizona, Vancouver or Calgary as primary trade partners, in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Would I move him as quickly as possible? Yes To where or who? Would prefer western conference. I would target Arizona, Vancouver or Calgary as primary trade partners, in that order. What should we look for in return? Do we need another center to replace him, or just wait for Mittelstud to come up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 That is the first time I've ever seen that stat tracked. I wonder what qualifies as a puck battle victory. Seems a little sketchy, but the names on that list certainly pass the eye test in terms of winning puck battles. My question is who in the world is watching evey game to come up with the raw data? If it's being "crowdsourced," the data is inherently untrustworthy. It's not a league stat, I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 My question is who in the world is watching evey game to come up with the raw data? If it's being "crowdsourced," the data is inherently untrustworthy. It's not a league stat, I don't think. Every franchise has an analytics team. They go over every second w/ video, multiple angles, etc. Sometimes they are part of the video scouting dept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 What should we look for in return? Do we need another center to replace him, or just wait for Mittelstud to come up? Can't have too many centers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 What should we look for in return? Do we need another center to replace him, or just wait for Mittelstud to come up?Our window to climb in to the playoffs begins next season. Debating this season is over imo. And I'm sure many agree. What's needed now is directional leadership, on the ice yes, but more importantly, at the top. The GM. When I hear O'Reilly directly stating he doesn't know why he's playing sub par and has no answers, that's a problem, a much bigger problem than just production. That's a leadership problem, this team needs vet leaders and it's more than clear ROR, Pommers, Okposo aren't it. I use ROR to target OEL or Domi and Duclair in some sort of package swap. Arizona is bursting with wingers, they need a high caliber center, ROR is primed for a deal like this. OEL would be my primary target though. I move Kane to Pitt if possible, if not, both Vancouver and Calgary offer inviting trade partner targets. I want Neal in the off season. Yes he's just crested 30, but he's an on ice leader and warrior in Vegas. Just some rambling thoughts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 He's worth every penny Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 The negative repercussions for our team, should be trade O'Reilly, would be significantly more wide-spread than his basic stats would indicate, I believe. There's a "greater than the sum of its parts" affect he's bringing to the table. His absence was even more noticeable that I thought it would be when he missed that game recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I do not think he doesn't earn his money but if we could get that stud defenseman we need it's just a thought... A stud defenseman at as great a loss on your forward Corp. No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Every franchise has an analytics team. They go over every second w/ video, multiple angles, etc. Sometimes they are part of the video scouting dept. That sounds biased and untrustworthy. Is everyone measuring the metrics the same way. Shots seems pretty straight forward but when you start getting into quality of shots, possession, etc. I could see a huge difference from one statistician to the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 That sounds biased and untrustworthy. Is everyone measuring the metrics the same way. Shots seems pretty straight forward but when you start getting into quality of shots, possession, etc. I could see a huge difference from one statistician to the next. It seems like I remember people claiming some arenas shots (and hits) are more generous than others. IIRC, MSG is generous for shots to make Lundqvist look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Our window to climb in to the playoffs begins next season. Debating this season is over imo. And I'm sure many agree. What's needed now is directional leadership, on the ice yes, but more importantly, at the top. The GM. When I hear O'Reilly directly stating he doesn't know why he's playing sub par and has no answers, that's a problem, a much bigger problem than just production. That's a leadership problem, this team needs vet leaders and it's more than clear ROR, Pommers, Okposo aren't it. I use ROR to target OEL or Domi and Duclair in some sort of package swap. Arizona is bursting with wingers, they need a high caliber center, ROR is primed for a deal like this. OEL would be my primary target though. I move Kane to Pitt if possible, if not, both Vancouver and Calgary offer inviting trade partner targets. I want Neal in the off season. Yes he's just crested 30, but he's an on ice leader and warrior in Vegas. Just some rambling thoughts..... Good takes, imo. I'm not sure an over-priced ROR could be part of a deal to fetch an OEL, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 The problem with O'Reilly is that without O'Reilly we have no center depth. We're kinda stuck with him whether we like it or not, because the alternative is...not having him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Every franchise has an analytics team. They go over every second w/ video, multiple angles, etc. Sometimes they are part of the video scouting dept. Of course, but a stat like "puck battles" would be kept on a proprietary level. You're not going to see it in a Tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 O'Reilly is not having a good year so far, so his play/production so far this year don't justify his hefty salary. That said, the rising tide lifts all boats. The team seems to be getting a grasp of Housley's system of late and the team is playing better hockey (with mixed results in the W-L column). As the team improves as a whole, the individuals on the team are looking better and stats are improving (Eichel, Reinhart, Okposo, etc.) O'Reilly is a good hockey player and as the team plays better, he will play better. If he remains a part of the team, he will eventually get back to his expected level of play and will justify his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) O'Reilly is not having a good year so far, so his play/production so far this year don't justify his hefty salary. That said, the rising tide lifts all boats. The team seems to be getting a grasp of Housley's system of late and the team is playing better hockey (with mixed results in the W-L column). As the team improves as a whole, the individuals on the team are looking better and stats are improving (Eichel, Reinhart, Okposo, etc.) O'Reilly is a good hockey player and as the team plays better, he will play better. If he remains a part of the team, he will eventually get back to his expected level of play and will justify his salary. How can a max. 55 pt player ever justify a $7.5 mill salary? Edited January 4, 2018 by Georgia Flakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 O'Reilly is not having a good year so far, so his play/production so far this year don't justify his hefty salary. That said, the rising tide lifts all boats. The team seems to be getting a grasp of Housley's system of late and the team is playing better hockey (with mixed results in the W-L column). As the team improves as a whole, the individuals on the team are looking better and stats are improving (Eichel, Reinhart, Okposo, etc.) O'Reilly is a good hockey player and as the team plays better, he will play better. If he remains a part of the team, he will eventually get back to his expected level of play and will justify his salary. I'd like to believe this is true. My concern remains that he's too slow to keep up with the game as it's now being played -- that he was tabbed, in error, by GM TM as precisely the sort of player a good NHL team would need going forward. How can a max. 55 pt player ever justify a $7.5 mill salary? passage of time and associated increase of the cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 How can a max. 55 pt player ever justify a $7.5 mill salary? Points aren't the only measure of a player. A 55-point player that cannot play a lick of D and a two-way forward that also generates 55 points are of different value. ROR is closer to the latter than the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'd like to believe this is true. My concern remains that he's too slow to keep up with the game as it's now being played -- that he was tabbed, in error, by GM TM as precisely the sort of player a good NHL team would need going forward. passage of time and associated increase of the cap? He's still a better player than what we gave up for him, and he's filling a position of need. It's okay to want more from him, but all things considered the O'Reilly trade still looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 He's still a better player than what we gave up for him, and he's filling a position of need. It's okay to want more from him, but all things considered the O'Reilly trade still looks good. I agree with that. He's somewhat overpaid based on current production and trend. Not the worst thing in the world -- especially when you're overpaying for a center who can reliably do some key things. But I really mean it when I ask: Is dude too slow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Since ROR got here, he is 47th in the NHL in points and is tied for 27th in salary cap hit with three other players, Aaron Ekblad, Vladimir Tarasenko, and Jason Spezza. He is undoubtedly better than two of them, and isn't very close in value to Tarasenko. Of that 20 count discrepancy, surely at least half can be made up for by his position as by far the best defensive player we've had on this team in a decade, who also regularly leads the league in faceoffs and "puck battle wins" haha. Players with similar style to ROR, and their cap hits: Aleksander Barkov: $5.9 milAnze Kopitar $10 mil Patrice Bergeron $6.8 mil Ryan Johansen $8 mil Nazem Kadri $4.5 mil Ryan Kesler $6.8 mil Jordan Staal $6 mil Mikko Koivu $5.5 mil Off-hand, I take ROR over Johansen, Kesler, Staal, and Koivu right now, about half of that list. He out-performed Bergeron and Kopitar last season but isn't this season. There are sweetheart deals on that list like Bergeron, but overall it shows how salaries have increased over the past few years. An unproven Barkov signed for nearly 6 million, Kesler got his deal the same summer as ROR as a much older man. Johansen and Kopitar signed after ROR, Kopitar's so high because of the SC. ROR's deal makes sense given the time it was signed and his value to the team, IMO, or was at MOST a .5 million per year overpayment, which I would gladly do again knowing that fact (ROR is not a guy you worry about slightly overpaying). He makes 250K more than David freakin Krejci and Bobby Ryan, 500K more than Phaneuf, Rask, Rinne. If ROR isn't worth what he's being paid, he's nowhere close to being the most overpaid player on this roster, and the "extra" money isn't keeping us from any meaningful roster changes or anything. He's been ragdolled by usage over his tenure here and it shows, and he might be losing a step which would suck. Still, he's only 26. Even if he falls off early we should still get another 3-5 nice years out of him. And if we can somehow get the roster and coaching to not have to murder him, and you stick him with Jack because Mittelstadt is the player of everyone's dreams, with a speedy guy who makes space on the other side, he will certainly not be too slow, and will have his best seasons in Buffalo. He's probably too slow to be used the way we use him, an all-purpose 1C with the toughest minutes in the NHL, against the best and fastest forwards the other teams have to offer. Luckily there are other roles on hockey teams besides this and 4th line plugs, despite Phil's beliefs (I'm picking on Phil a bit here, ROR actually has easier minutes than last year by a non-negligible amount) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre fan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) at first I was okay or actually good with the signing but I kinda thought he'd be much more of a "leader" then he has been. I figured he'd be named Captain right away and lead the team to bigger and better things. Apparently he is no leader as this team seems to lack leadership in a BIG way so now I am kinda thinking maybe he is over paid but I doubt you could trade him so either way he still is a good, solid player and yes, clearly fairly paid compared to many other players in his price-range Edited January 4, 2018 by Sabre fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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