Sorry to Say: The Tank Was A Swing And A Miss

[tom webster]

I'm not sure who ultimately ends up the better player but how do you figure Matthews had a far better season?

Jack had a much better points per game average playing in a much more restrictive system.

[pi2000]

Matthews' rookie season was better than Jack's, but Jack's sophomore season had a notably better point per game pace, and he wasn't nearly as sheltered as Matthews was, and Jack's team scored far, far fewer goals than Matthews' did. I think Jack was a better player this year even though Matthews is pretty good at picking up garbage from within 10 feet of the net and not too much else (loose puck retrievals and stick handling he's good at...passing? 29 assists, on THAT team, in 82 games?)

 

This is Matthews' peak, he's reached physical maturity at a young age, he's been two steps ahead of everyone physically at every level he's played, until now.... this is his peak, it's all down hill from here... and wait until he signs his mega-deal... bye bye birdie.   

[Drunkard]

Straw man. Those weren't the only 2 alternatives.

 

 

We f'd it up because we adopted a plan that required a 1-in-5 chance to pay off -- and any plan that relies on a 1-in-5 chance to pay off is an idiotic plan.

It's definitely a straw man because there's no way to know who else we could have had at center but after 7/1/07 we spent the better part of a decade devoid of center talent and tanking ensured we have quality centers for the next decade in all liklihood.

 

Eichel is no McDavid but finishing last ensured having to "settle" for Eichel while also giving the best odds to get McDavid. I'm still happy with the decision.

 

I'm still convinced that a possession minded coach coupled with fixing the blue line would result in a contending team within the next couple of seasons. There's only one way to really find out though.

[IKnowPhysics]

This thread is .

 

The goal of the tank was to move out expiring assets in favor of drafting elite talent, based on two facts: 1) Cup contenders are built around elite talent and 2) in this era of CBA, it has been deomnstrated that acquiring that elite talent through trade and FA is extraordinarily unlikely.

 

The tank successfully positioned the Sabres to draft elite talent.

 

The Sabres successfully drafted elite talent.

 

They must now build a team around that talent in order to position themselves as a contender.

 

They have not completed the building of a team around that elite talent.

 

The tank did not fail. It was not a swing and miss. The rebuild is ongoing. Elements of the rebuild, however, may be considered to be swing and miss (ahem, defense).

 

If you've given up on the elite talent we've drafted, or blame them for the team's shortcomings, you're a fool.

[Randall Flagg]

This is Matthews' peak, he's reached physical maturity at a young age, he's been two steps ahead of everyone physically at every level he's played, until now.... this is his peak, it's all down hill from here... and wait until he signs his mega-deal... bye bye birdie.

You have to know that this is a hysterically bad opinion, right? There's no way you're not just having fun going with an intentionally contrarian opinion you formed last year.

 

Right?

[pi2000]

This thread is ######.

 

The goal of the tank was to move out expiring assets in favor of drafting elite talent, based on two facts: 1) Cup contenders are built around elite talent and 2) in this era of CBA, it has been deomnstrated that acquiring that elite talent through trade and FA is extraordinarily unlikely.

 

The tank successfully positioned the Sabres to draft elite talent.

 

The Sabres successfully drafted elite talent.

 

They must now build a team around that talent in order to position themselves as a contender.

 

They have not completed the building of a team around that elite talent.

 

The tank did not fail. It was not a swing and miss. The rebuild is ongoing. Elements of the rebuild, however, may be considered to be swing and miss (ahem, defense).

 

If you've given up on the elite talent we've drafted, or blame them for the team's shortcomings, you're a fool.

 

You have to know that this is a hysterically bad opinion, right? There's no way you're not just having fun going with an intentionally contrarian opinion you formed last year.

 

Right?

 

I still believe this is the best Auston Matthews we'll ever see.   His first 2 years will be fantastic... he'll sign his mega-deal and pack it in... because money matters to him...more than team, more than education, more than character.  

[Weave]

We don't have little to show. We have good talent on the roster. With an effective coach we're in the playoffs this year.

 

I don't believe that at all.  This team lacks character and a coach won't fix that.

 

And it is too soon to say the tank was a swing and a miss, but I don't like the looks of the fruits of that tank so far.  Unless things change a good bit I think we may have ended up with the equivalent of Jeremy Roenick and Craig Janney.

 

I still believe this is the best Auston Matthews we'll ever see.   His first 2 years will be fantastic... he'll sign his mega-deal and pack it in... because money matters to him...more than team, more than education, more than character.  

 

I suspect this more about Jack than I do about Auston at this point.  He didn't feel bad about coasting the last half dozen games until he realized it cost him $2M.

[Randall Flagg]

 

 

I still believe this is the best Auston Matthews we'll ever see.   His first 2 years will be fantastic... he'll sign his mega-deal and pack it in... because money matters to him...more than team, more than education, more than character.  

Well, it's still one of the worst hockey opinions I've ever read in my entire life. 

[DarthEbriate]

Someone start work the Miller trade as list the assets we got from the tank. I'm far to lazy but I'd be curious.

 

Thread-wise we are easily trolled today. But the Shadow asks, so here we go:

(note, we're still waiting on the 2017 2nd from MIN for Miller + Ott. So it's incomplete)

 

 

Ach!   <<  Will edit >>> Lost the table...  hang on...  here we go

 

Gaustad => Girgensons

 

Pominville + Sekera + Grigorenko => Larsson + O'Reilly + Karabacek + Vesey (if signed)

 

Miller + Roy/Ott + Pysyk => Kulikov + Carrier + 2017 MIN 2nd +Bylsma

 

Vanek => Lehner, Legwand, Guhle, Moulson, McCormick, Nevins, Cornel, Martin, Gorges, Glotov

 

Stafford + Myers + Armia + Lemieux => Kane + Bogosian + Johnson + Kasdorf

 

Enroth => full tank (guaranteed Eichel) + Fitzgerald

 

McNabb => Fasching + Deslauriers

Edited April 18, 2017 by DarthEbriate

[pi2000]

Well, it's still one of the worst hockey opinions I've ever read in my entire life.... until it becomes a reality.

 

fixed.

 

I realize it's an unpopular opinion, but he won't be the first (nor the last) highly touted player to flame out after signing a mega-deal.     

[nfreeman]

Regarding Matthews' season vs Eichel's: I don't give a crap about PPG. Matthews had FORTY freaking goals as a rookie.

[ct fab]

And who played more minutes with Jack than anybody else? Foligno. Get Jack a good winger to play with and he's a 100pt/season player. Case closed, next stupid thread???

[Randall Flagg]

Regarding Matthews' season vs Eichel's: I don't give a crap about PPG. Matthews had FORTY freaking goals as a rookie.

He scored more goals than plenty of players who had better seasons than he did though.

[woods-racer]

If I remembered this little bit of statistical brew-ha-ha correctly...

 

Jack had 17 different wing combinations this year. Making him the highest scoring center with so many different wingers this year and since the post Gretzky era.

 

Almost all the other (except 1 or 2) of this years highest scoring centers had the same line mates. No one else came close to Dan's complete miss use of someone of that caliper.

[tom webster]

Regarding Matthews' season vs Eichel's: I don't give a crap about PPG. Matthews had FORTY freaking goals as a rookie.

40/69 is not MUCH better then 32/77.

[SwampD]

The alternative was already tried for 16 years, and is currently still being tried by the Bills. It's the definition of Insanity

Of all the narratives about the Sabres, this one needs to die the most painful death of them all.

 

The definition of insanity was trying to use the same coach and gm for 16 years and think something was going to change.

 

Teams get good all the time without discarding 2 full seasons.

[DarthEbriate]

Of all the narratives about the Sabres, this one needs to die the most painful death of them all.

 

The definition of insanity was trying to use the same coach and gm for 16 years and think something was going to change.

 

Teams get good all the time without discarding 2 full seasons.

But we tried Rolston! :angel:

 

I'll see myself out.

[TrueBlueGED]

This thread is ######.

 

The goal of the tank was to move out expiring assets in favor of drafting elite talent, based on two facts: 1) Cup contenders are built around elite talent and 2) in this era of CBA, it has been deomnstrated that acquiring that elite talent through trade and FA is extraordinarily unlikely.

 

The tank successfully positioned the Sabres to draft elite talent.

 

The Sabres successfully drafted elite talent.

 

They must now build a team around that talent in order to position themselves as a contender.

 

They have not completed the building of a team around that elite talent.

 

The tank did not fail. It was not a swing and miss. The rebuild is ongoing. Elements of the rebuild, however, may be considered to be swing and miss (ahem, defense).

 

If you've given up on the elite talent we've drafted, or blame them for the team's shortcomings, you're a fool.

I mostly agree with this. That said, I'm comfortable saying the acceleration of the rebuild has failed.

[PASabreFan]

I mostly agree with this. That said, I'm comfortable saying the acceleration of the rebuild has failed.

That's the rub. For Tim to preach patience now after the events of two years ago about this time of year is a bit much.

[LGR4GM]

This may yet prove out, but there is zero basis for asserting it now.  Matthews had a far better season as a rookie than Jackie boy did as a sophomore.

Jack Eichel: 0.393gpg, 0.541apg, 0.934ppg

 

Auston Matthews: 0.488gpg. 0.354apg, 0.841ppg

 

Jack Eichel had more points per game then Auston Matthews while playing roughly 15-20games on a recovering ankle and most assuredly not getting any sheltered 3rd line time. Jack Eichel had a better season than Auston. I won't even bring up systems because that conversation is being had everywhere.

 

Auston is a good player. Jack is a good player. Right now Jack is a better player but in 3 years, hard to say. Matthews has a ton of talent. 

[7+6=13]

The team we had prior to deciding to tank was better than we are now?  Yikes!

[LGR4GM]

The team we had prior to deciding to tank was better than we are now?  Yikes!

 

Someone start with the Miller trade (we seem to have those assets) and then list all the assets we got from that moment to say the 2016 draft. Everything. I have a sneaking suspicion a good chunk of those (coughdraftpickscough) aren't even NHL ready yet. 

[bunomatic]

On sport talk radio 1040 out of Vancouver this a.m. they were lamenting how they would have to put up with Edmonton/Toronto duking it out for the cup for the next 10 years. 

 

Cue the sound of crickets...

 

Not a word of Buffalo crossed their lips.

 

Thats the perception pretty much this side of the border. Not much talk of Eichel when discussing the other top picks of the last couple years. Not much talk of the sabres at all actually. Until this franchise gets serious about winning we're not even in the conversation.

[Thorny]

This may yet prove out, but there is zero basis for asserting it now. Matthews had a far better season as a rookie than Jackie boy did as a sophomore.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree that the Leafs didn't tank in anywhere near the same way the Sabres did.

 

Completely agree that the Leafs winning the lottery doesn't mean that the Sabres' tank was a failure. One thing has nuttin' to do with the udder.

 

But the Sabres' tank was unequivocally a failure.

 

 

 

Straw man. Those weren't the only 2 alternatives.

 

We f'd it up because we adopted a plan that required a 1-in-5 chance to pay off -- and any plan that relies on a 1-in-5 chance to pay off is an idiotic plan.

Regarding Matthews' season vs Eichel's: I don't give a crap about PPG. Matthews had FORTY freaking goals as a rookie.

So Matthews' season is better than McDavid's, too? Matthews had 33.3% more goals.

 

40/69 is not MUCH better then 32/77.

That's true. The 77 point season is better.

 

Of all the narratives about the Sabres, this one needs to die the most painful death of them all.

The definition of insanity was trying to use the same coach and gm for 16 years and think something was going to change.

Teams get good all the time without discarding 2 full seasons.

This is fair.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Regarding Matthews' season vs Eichel's: I don't give a crap about PPG. Matthews had FORTY freaking goals as a rookie.

Yes he did. But goals are not the sole measure of even offensive output in the NHL. By your standard Ovechkin is and has always been better than Crosby (this year Crosby outscored him in goals)

Edited April 19, 2017 by LGR4GM