Sorry to Say: The Tank Was A Swing And A Miss

[eman]

Tanking is a crap shoot. It is why LaFontaine walked away. He did not want to go that easy route. I believe he felt that that route makes for a lazy management group, that tries to luck into a #1 pick and lets things go from there, instead of actually trying to build a complete franchise.

 

Sure a high draft pick helps, but it's a guarantee of nothing. You still have to assemble surrounding talent and that takes time and a good (perhaps crafty) GM. Plus you won't get a high pick every season especially as your club starts to improve and slowly rises in the standings.

 

Therefore you still need good hockey people at the top that continue to build the club, while icing a competitive or at least entertaining product so as not to completely alienate your fan base. I really believe Patty was against taking the tank route.

 

Yes we have Jack Eichel whom I love, but you cannot tell me he isn't disgruntled right now. Although maybe after what transpired in the front office today he is feeling a little more optimistic about his future as a Sabre. Here's hoping!

 

Look how many #1 picks the Oilers had before landing on McDavid. It didn't get them a ^playoff spot until this season. It hasn't gotten the Sabres one either yet. Onward and upward after today's cull!

[qwksndmonster]

We were already tanking in a big way when PLF was hired.

[eman]

We were already tanking in a big way when PLF was hired.

But for a different reason. We had an owner who was no longer willing to spend any money and thereby handcuffing his GM to make any significant moves so the team was aging and getting stale. Not a purposeful tank in an effort to get McEichel.

[qwksndmonster]

But for a different reason. We had an owner who was no longer willing to spend any money and thereby handcuffing his GM to make any significant moves so the team was aging and getting stale. Not a purposeful tank in an effort to get McEichel.

I don't remember it like that at all. When Darcy started tanking it was with Pegula as owner. And he was tanking for the long haul, most definitely looking at McDavid.

[Thorny]

I don't remember it like that at all. When Darcy started tanking it was with Pegula as owner. And he was tanking for the long haul, most definitely looking at McDavid.

Ya, the infamous "suffering" quote from Regier was in the summer of 2013, right? Just as we were embarking on our two straight bottom of the league finishes. We've only ever tanked with Pegula.

[I-90 W]

The tank was indeed a success, I'm surprised it is even being questioned. I think this line of thinking comes from the impatience that a six year playoff drought brings about. Miller, Vanek, Pominville and the boys weren't going anywhere in the playoffs. In 2011 Philly manhandled us (we were lucky to push it to 7 games) and literally camped out in front of our net the entire series during that one-and-done first round knockout. And the year before that, even though we were division champions, Boston knocked us out of the first round. We haven't been deep in the playoffs since 06-07. I don't see what alternative there was other than tanking; putting band aids on our problems via free agency every year?

[eman]

The tank was indeed a success, I'm surprised it is even being questioned. I think this line of thinking comes from the impatience that a six year playoff drought brings about. Miller, Vanek, Pominville and the boys weren't going anywhere in the playoffs. In 2011 Philly manhandled us (we were lucky to push it to 7 games) and literally camped out in front of our net the entire series during that one-and-done first round knockout. And the year before that, even though we were division champions, Boston knocked us out of the first round. We haven't been deep in the playoffs since 06-07. I don't see what alternative there was other than tanking; putting band aids on our problems via free agency every year?

And where are we now post tank? No where closer to anything. We have a great player in Eichel being wasted (and I believe he did indicate he didn't want to extend his contract if things keep on the same path, regardless of what the spin is now) 6 years going on 7 out of the playoffs and we finished 17 points out of a playoff spot this past season. It will take a miracle to get us in this upcoming season because we will need some free agent help (especially on D) and there is no guarantee that anyone of value will even want to come here. We will have to most certainly stay healthy and that is a tall order in the rough and tumble world of the NHL. Are our prospects any good? Did Rochester make the playoffs? Maybe we aren't deep at all like we may have thought. The move that had to be made was made yesterday and that is a great start. Time to bring in some new hockey people to right this ship but I am not counting on the playoffs for next season like I was for this past one. The cast is the same. I can see another miss to get us to year 7 and no playoff. The coach selection will be of serious importance as it was in Toronto.

[Sabre fan]

The tank got us some good young talent that was greatly needed...remember, we were going nowhere and needed someone like Jack to build around. The thing I really don;t get in the rebuild is why we have these older guys that don;t really fit in like Gorges, Moulson, Gionta etc. I would have preferred to go with young guys and give them a chance  and learn as they go as the Leafs have done.

 

If one looks at the leafs, they have either young guys or guys on their mid-20's like Oreilly, Okoposo, and kane which is perfect. But the leafs play and played a lot of young guys instead of going with aging vets like we did. I think we really hurt guys like Bailey who were brought up for a game or two then sent back down and someone else was brought up. The leafs would have been using all these good young players and letting them learn on the job.

 

I also happen to think that Pegula looked at this and thought what happened this past season wasn't good enough. We got worse not better, and the farm team was sucking too...if things progressed this way, next year would be even worse again. I guess the leafs and Oilers have kind of set the bar now...a team needs a committed and hockey-minded President, then a GM then a coach who are all on he same page and work towards that common goal of success. Wonder if Lombardi would make a good President?

[I-90 W]

And where are we now post tank? No where closer to anything. We have a great player in Eichel being wasted (and I believe he did indicate he didn't want to extend his contract if things keep on the same path, regardless of what the spin is now) 6 years going on 7 out of the playoffs and we finished 17 points out of a playoff spot this past season. It will take a miracle to get us in this upcoming season because we will need some free agent help (especially on D) and there is no guarantee that anyone of value will even want to come here. We will have to most certainly stay healthy and that is a tall order in the rough and tumble world of the NHL. Are our prospects any good? Did Rochester make the playoffs? Maybe we aren't deep at all like we may have thought. The move that had to be made was made yesterday and that is a great start. Time to bring in some new hockey people to right this ship but I am not counting on the playoffs for next season like I was for this past one. The cast is the same. I can see another miss to get us to year 7 and no playoff. The coach selection will be of serious importance as it was in Toronto.

 

The point that I'm making is this; what other choice was there? The "race to eighth" and then not getting past the first round wasn't the goal either. And make no mistake about it, that is where we were, and that is what brought about the tank.

[Jsixspd]

The Tank was our best chance to get McDavid.  However, the consolation prize, Eichel, was well worth a losing season that was lost anyway.   IT should be pretty clear he's a special talent.   

I thought the questions in the presser today about 'the tank' were pretty pointless and stupid.   Lots of teams have overcome horrible years and records and improved within a few years of time.    I don't think the "Tank" guaranteed a losing mentality -  if such an attitude took root, blame that on poor coaching and leadership.   

[eman]

The point that I'm making is this; what other choice was there? The "race to eighth" and then not getting past the first round wasn't the goal either. And make no mistake about it, that is where we were, and that is what brought about the tank.

Did the Hawks tank? The Kings? The Habs? The Bruins? Perennial playoff clubs that can and have gone deep and even won Cups. They don't do the "tank mentality". Instead they hire competant hockey people to keep their franchises competitive and keep out the losing mentality. Not saying that is what plagues us but you can see why LaFontaine wanted no part of that. The Kings finally washed out this season but they will retool minus a tank. As of right now, we are wasting Jack and he is aware of it. Pegula needs to hire a seriously competant GM & coach this time around or you can colour Jack gone at the end of his contract, Could you blame him? The tank, aside from Jack and supposedly all this wonderful young talent that has yet to get us a playoff round by the way, has gotten us NOTHING! But I keep hearing how sweet it will be as we head into year #7 of no playoffs. A tank guarantees nothing and I still feel, it is ultimately the lazy way to restructure instead of hiring good competant individuals to run a hockey club. When it does change in Buffalo (and I do hope it does this season) let me hear about it. Until then, it is what it is and so far, a big failure. The difference with the Leafs? Their young talent may be just better then ours is. Just  check your AHL standings so excuse me if I am not completely sold on our young talent at this stage. Nylander and some of their other young guns did their time in the AHL first. They won down there and went deep in the playoffs. Our guys? Not so much.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The tank was the worst decision ever made by the Sabres.

[I-90 W]

Did the Hawks tank? The Kings? The Habs? The Bruins? Perennial playoff clubs that can and have gone deep and even won Cups. They don't do the "tank mentality". Instead they hire competant hockey people to keep their franchises competitive and keep out the losing mentality. Not saying that is what plagues us but you can see why LaFontaine wanted no part of that. The Kings finally washed out this season but they will retool minus a tank. As of right now, we are wasting Jack and he is aware of it. Pegula needs to hire a seriously competant GM & coach this time around or you can colour Jack gone at the end of his contract, Could you blame him? The tank, aside from Jack and supposedly all this wonderful young talent that has yet to get us a playoff round by the way, has gotten us NOTHING! But I keep hearing how sweet it will be as we head into year #7 of no playoffs. A tank guarantees nothing and I still feel, it is ultimately the lazy way to restructure instead of hiring good competant individuals to run a hockey club. When it does change in Buffalo (and I do hope it does this season) let me hear about it. Until then, it is what it is and so far, a big failure. The difference with the Leafs? Their young talent may be just better then ours is. Just check your AHL standings so excuse me if I am not completely sold on our young talent at this stage. Nylander and some of their other young guns did their time in the AHL first. They won down there and went deep in the playoffs. Our guys? Not so much.

The hawks were awful before they were good again. How do you think they got Towes and Kane? ???? You call the tank lazy yet cannot provide any other alternate strategy that we should have taken.

The tank was the worst decision ever made by the Sabres.

Attendance never dropped and now we have Sam and Jack. Not sure why you think that.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The hawks were awful before they were good again. How do you think they got Towes and Kane? ???? You call the tank lazy yet cannot provide any other alternate strategy that we should have taken.

 

Attendance never dropped and now we have Sam and Jack. Not sure why you think that.

Go back to that time and my posts if you want. I was one of the few (there were a number of others that were quite vocal in opposition) anti tankers.

 

I would rather not have Sam and Jack and not have tanked.

[I-90 W]

Go back to that time and my posts if you want. I was one of the few (there were a number of others that were quite vocal in opposition) anti tankers.

 

I would rather not have Sam and Jack and not have tanked.

To each their own. How it impacts us negatively now in 2017, is pretty difficult to articulate.

[eman]

The tank was the worst decision ever made by the Sabres.

What actually troubles me the most is the way they played the last week of this past season. The Sabres, for lack of a better word, played like little and this is our young talent? Maybe it's on the coach, but they played like they just didn't care and certainly didn't play like they were concerned for earning a roster spot for next season. They should be a little concerned now with an entirely new GM & coach on their way. Hopefully one that won't stand for the garbage that was this past season. 17 points out of a playoff spot so you have to assume they will need to add that to the upcoming season just to qualify. If not more. So whomever our coach is, if they do qualify next season (and as of right now, I am very skeptical) that would almost qualify our coach as a "Coach of the year" candidate if we do get in. It's a tall order and the work is cut out for him. I believe Jack cared and that:s why he called out some of his teammatesat seasons end. He may have noticed the same thing. We do not want to lose the one thing that this tank did benefit us.

[eman]

The hawks were awful before they were good again. How do you think they got Towes and Kane? You call the tank lazy yet cannot provide any other alternate strategy that we should have taken.

 

Attendance never dropped and now we have Sam and Jack. Not sure why you think that.

Hire competant hockey people. That is my solution. If you read my other posts (from way back I agree) I was not high on Bylsma nor Tim Murray. Who is Tim Murray anyhow? People here embraced both and said that Babs was overrated. Really? Time has told the tale. Even without Matthews, The Leafs were better then us and play a much better style of hockey. This next hiring by Pegula is a crucial point  in this organization. As for attendance. Tried selling your seats after January this year? You couldn't give them away. Keep alienating the fan base and see what you get. Hell Leaf fans turned out en masse for years of garbage hockey and we used to laugh at them. Remember? Thw Hawks did suck, every team goes through a turnover. The Habs missed the playoffs, the Bruins also and now the Kings. None of them tanked to get better. They had good scouts and GM's to rebuild and retool. Tanking has become a lazy tool and only exposes how incompetant your  managerial group is if they cannot complete a decent turnaround.We missed hiring Julien & Gallant when we had the chance to land a decent coach. My blood will reach boiling point if the damn Vegas Golden Knights have a better record then we do next season. (under McPhee and Gallant.)

[I-90 W]

Hire competant hockey people. That is my solution. If you read my other posts (from way back I agree) I was not high on Bylsma nor Tim Murray. Who is Tim Murray anyhow? People here embraced both and said that Babs was overrated. Really? Time has told the tale. Even without Matthews, The Leafs were better then us and play a much better style of hockey. This next hiring by Pegula is a crucial point in this organization. As for attendance. Tried selling your seats after January this year? You couldn't give them away. Keep alienating the fan base and see what you get. Hell Leaf fans turned out en masse for years of garbage hockey and we used to laugh at them. Remember? Thw Hawks did suck, every team goes through a turnover. The Habs missed the playoffs, the Bruins also and now the Kings. None of them tanked to get better. They had good scouts and GM's to rebuild and retool. Tanking has become a lazy tool and only exposes how incompetant your managerial group is if they cannot complete a decent turnaround.We missed hiring Julien & Gallant when we had the chance to land a decent coach. My blood will reach boiling point if the damn Vegas Golden Knights have a better record then we do next season. (under McPhee and Gallant.)

"Hire competent hockey people" is a lazy and vague statement. Tanking for elite talent is so effective in the NHL that it utilizes a darn draft lottery because of it. You call tanking lazy but imo not giving an alternate option and merly saying "Hire competent hockey people" is equally lazy. Tanking was the hard road not the easy one. Anyone could have kept floating us as a bubble team.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan

[eman]

"Hire competent hockey people" is a lazy and vague statement. Tanking for elite talent is so effective in the NHL that it utilizes a darn draft lottery because of it. You call tanking lazy but imo not giving an alternate option and merly saying "Hire competent hockey people" is equally lazy. Tanking was the hard road not the easy one. Anyone could have kept floating us as a bubble team.

Who is Pegula interviewing now? Dean Lombardi, ex of the LA KINGS (and a couple Cups?) Who else? Not TIM MURRAY!!! Tim Murray  who everyone was high on until this season and now everyone wanted to crucify by the end of it. 2 great coaches get passed on for keeping a stiff called Bylsma whom Pittsburgh ran out of town because their Superstar couldn't stand him and his "system". Again, people were high on Bylsma and smack talking Babcock on these blogs. I was the opposite and got shouted down. Now our Superstar got sick of Disco Dan and he gets run out of Buffalo also. My position is not lazy nor vague. It just seems this owner is slow or too stupid to pull the trigger at the right time involving the right people. And the clock keeps ticking.... tick, tick tick... to season 7 of no playoffs and another season wasted of Jack Eichel.

[I-90 W]

Who is Pegula interviewing now? Dean Lombardi, ex of the LA KINGS (and a couple Cups?) Who else? Not TIM MURRAY!!! Tim Murray who everyone was high on until this season and now everyone wanted to crucify by the end of it. 2 great coaches get passed on for keeping a stiff called Bylsma whom Pittsburgh ran out of town because their Superstar couldn't stand him and his "system". Again, people were high on Bylsma and smack talking Babcock on these blogs. I was the opposite and got shouted down. Now our Superstar got sick of Disco Dan and he gets run out of Buffalo also. My position is not lazy nor vague. It just seems this owner is slow or too stupid to pull the trigger at the right time involving the right people. And the clock keeps ticking.... tick, tick tick... to season 7 of no playoffs and another season wasted of Jack Eichel.

TM didn't start the tank he finished it. Darcy started that ball rolling.

[eman]

TM didn't start the tank he finished it. Darcy started that ball rolling.

TM got what he deserved. He stood still and did nothing when it mattered. Coaches (and good ones) were available when this team was still in the run for a wildcard spot and he stood by Dan, it may be loyal but it was stupid. Winning organizations pull the trigger. It's the business of winning. Hopefully TPegs gets it right this time with a Hockey President, a GM and a decent head coach who won't tolerate a display like this club put on in the final week and a half of this season. And don't think for a minute that Vegas may completely suck this year, again, if they have a better record then this Sabre club you may want to revisit all our "young talent". I know we all want to see a winning club in this City but the last week and a half has me skeptical about our entire lineup. Sure, at times this season they looked like World beaters which gave us hope for the future. But when things mattered, like right after the layoff against 2 teams seated lower then the Sabres and a Wildcard spot on the line, they got owned and it all went down hill from there. So colour me really skeptical at this time.

and if TPegs is really interviewing Nonis and Gillis for the GM job, expect many more drought like years. I really hope that is just a B.S report or there is no hope for the foreseeable future.

[eman]

I don't see much in Samson when I think about difference maker. I think we have decent players in Sam, O'Reilly, Kane and Okposo with difference makers in Risto and Eichel. Unfortunately, the rest of the team is very interchangeable. This team is still 2 - 3 years away as we wait (and hope) for Nylander and some others to develop. 

 

When I look at the speed and skill going on with some of these better teams in the playoffs, it really shows me that Buffalo is not even close to competing. Just look at the last 10 games of the season...it's quite pathetic as to how this group is put together.

We are seeing exactly the same thing. I really hope we're wrong.

[matter2003]

That's a big stretch to say that after 2 years and a coach that was clueless and the players pretty much tuned out because they disliked him so much...

[eman]

That's a big stretch to say that after 2 years and a coach that was clueless and the players pretty much tuned out because they disliked him so much...

This is why I am hoping the next head coach of the Buffalo Sabres is a good one. And yes, we needed a new GM, I don't think that is a stretch. Lets see where Tim lands next. We need serious help on D before we play Risto to the point he gets injured. That will involve enticing a free agent who isn't past his prime and that will be an enormous task to lure that individual to Buffalo. Winning is not the culture here right now and that is why it will be difficult . Don't kid yourself. When others are competing for free agent services you had better make it an enticing offer. If we cannot get a free agent, I am hoping we have a great head coach who will school our young defenders to at least get us by in that area and allow the kids to gain valuable experience at the NHL level. These next 2 decisions are crucial for Pegula. We need a team President as well so TPegs can allow hockey people to just look after the on ice product and he can remain just a fan! I am basing a lot of what I,m saying on the NHL teams performance and how Rochester looks with our young guys (and truth be told, they look like crap) So coaching at both levels doesn't seem to be cutting it right now or our scouting is poor or a combo of both. i believe we have some good young guys on the Sabres who would benefit from a different style of play under a different system. We are about to see if this is true for 2017. As for your comment above, you noticed this also yet TM stuck with Dan anyhow. This is why TM had to go as I do not believe Bylsma would have been canned if TM was still the GM.

[spndnchz]

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