Weave Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Was Larson for Hall an overpay? Looking like a good hockey trade to me. (Hi True) Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Was Larson for Hall an overpay? Looking like a good hockey trade to me. (Hi True) I do indeed dislike you. And Flagg. And now We've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I do indeed dislike you. And Flagg. And now We've. Hey, you never answered me about the beer in Big Tree. I assume this meant hostilities had already begun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 We already are. Doesn't change BPA. You need a GM that can make the right trades after you've drafted BPA. This "just trade the guys at the positions of surplus for equal talent players at a position of need" potentially only makes sense in a vacuum, depending on the individual situation. In a world where Hall gets Larsson, you can't just assume we'll be able to make good value deals. BPA with no consideration for position doesn't make sense, and teams don't actually draft that way. If your GM can't make a reasonable guess/evaluation at what your roster may look like in 3 years, when the player selected will be able to contribute, they probably don't have a good handle on their team. If a GM has "no idea" which roster players may be successful in their current positions in a couple years, then how do they have the pedigree or knowledge to draft BPA in the first place, as how could they possibly forecast the future probability of an even more unknown entity to succeed? If we have a lack of blue chip D prospects in the system, draft a D man likely to have an impact in the future. If things completely flip and we end up with a surplus of D men, try to make a trade then. You are more likely to avoid a trade situation by trying to fill the prospect pool positional depth chart evenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hey, you never answered me about the beer in Big Tree. I assume this meant hostilities had already begun. One does not simply drink with an anti-tanker :p Honestly, it's just the time of my class is obnoxious for during the week. But if you don't mind starting at 9, I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 The #8 spot has been good to us before with risto and nylander :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 The #8 spot has been good to us before with risto and nylander :DI think Hiskainen will be there. I really do. There's just to much offensive talent for picks 1-7 to pass. Lots of centres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 This "just trade the guys at the positions of surplus for equal talent players at a position of need" potentially only makes sense in a vacuum, depending on the individual situation. In a world where Hall gets Larsson, you can't just assume we'll be able to make good value deals. BPA with no consideration for position doesn't make sense, and teams don't actually draft that way. If your GM can't make a reasonable guess/evaluation at what your roster may look like in 3 years, when the player selected will be able to contribute, they probably don't have a good handle on their team. If a GM has "no idea" which roster players may be successful in their current positions in a couple years, then how do they have the pedigree or knowledge to draft BPA in the first place, as how could they possibly forecast the future probability of an even more unknown entity to succeed? If we have a lack of blue chip D prospects in the system, draft a D man likely to have an impact in the future. If things completely flip and we end up with a surplus of D men, try to make a trade then. You are more likely to avoid a trade situation by trying to fill the prospect pool positional depth chart evenly. Thank you. This is why ExGMTM should have drafted Sergachev or Chychrun instead of Nylander, This is why Ex-GMTM should have drafted at least one D in 2014 with his 3 2nd rd picks. This is especially true when you consider that, as we saw in the Hall/Larsson deal, top flight D are worth a hell of lot more in the trade market then top flight forwards. This failure to recognize the needs of your organization is one of the many reasons TM is ExGMTM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) What are the chances that any of the top dmen in this draft class can play this year for us? I know dmen take a while to develop but not all. My guess is we'll have second best dman in draft. Edited May 1, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 What are the chances that any of the top dmen in this draft class can play this year for us? I know dmen take a while to develop but not all. My guess is we'll have second best dman in draft. IMO if Heiskanen falls there's a very slim chance, and there's no chance for the rest of them. This isn't the most informed opinion you'll find, though. Maybe Liljegren would have a shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 None are physically mature enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 IMO if Heiskanen falls there's a very slim chance, and there's no chance for the rest of them. This isn't the most informed opinion you'll find, though. Maybe Liljegren would have a shot? I'm all about packaging our #8 pick along with something else for an NHL ready top 4 dman. Only exception would be if there is projection of the pick stepping in and bypassing Rochester altogether. None are physically mature enough. That's what I'm assuming... trade trade trade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 I'm all about packaging our #8 pick along with something else for an NHL ready top 4 dman. Only exception would be if there is projection of the pick stepping in and bypassing Rochester altogether. We will keep the pick. It won't get us a top 4 d. Besides we need to add to the talent pool. We aren't contending for the cup next year and can make the playoffs with health and a different offensive style. Someone will pop loose after expansion. The draft and using it correctly is the key to long term success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Doesn't seem to be much high end talent that can step in right away. D also seems more difficult to break into at a young age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 We will keep the pick. It won't get us a top 4 d. Besides we need to add to the talent pool. We aren't contending for the cup next year and can make the playoffs with health and a different offensive style. Someone will pop loose after expansion. The draft and using it correctly is the key to long term success. Eh the rational side of me knows you're probably right but I want to package it and get aggressive with signing someone now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Eh the rational side of me knows you're probably right but I want to package it and get aggressive with signing someone now. The problem is the value a team puts into development increases the cost of an NHL ready player. The only way I can see a trade netting what you are seeking is to trade Sam. Cost controlled still developing, versatile. Kane is a pending UFA and unless the team pulls a ROR and rolls out the brinks truck, they risk losing him at the end of the year. I wouldn't give up a young cost controlled top 4 d man for that much uncertainty. Also, we create a hole by trading either Sam or Kane. We are talking about top 5 scorers on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 The problem is the value a team puts into development increases the cost of an NHL ready player. The only way I can see a trade netting what you are seeking is to trade Sam. Cost controlled still developing, versatile. Kane is a pending UFA and unless the team pulls a ROR and rolls out the brinks truck, they risk losing him at the end of the year. I wouldn't give up a young cost controlled top 4 d man for that much uncertainty. Also, we create a hole by trading either Sam or Kane. We are talking about top 5 scorers on this team. I'm adamantly against trading Sam under any circumstances, the new GM will need to decide what his plans are with Kane though. I still believe trading our #8 pick plus prospect, or #8 pick plus later round pick could land a top 4 d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 We will keep the pick. It won't get us a top 4 d. Besides we need to add to the talent pool. We aren't contending for the cup next year and can make the playoffs with health and a different offensive style. Someone will pop loose after expansion. The draft and using it correctly is the key to long term success.Very reasonable.The only part I would take exception with is the amount of need. I don't believe just waiting around for 1 top 4 D to pop loose, let alone the 2 we desperately need. We need a top pair LHD for Risto and a 3/4 RHD for McCabe. A deal should be made, if it can be, to fill at past one of these holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Antipin and Guhle are going to be on the big club. Bogo is probably here too. Gorges has another year left and we have Falk and Austin under contract. The key is too not over cook Risto. The other is to let Bogo, Risto, McCabe and probably Antipin support the rush. Gorges is serviceable bottom pair d at 12 to 14 minutes a game. I wouldn't count on a blockbuster top pair d coming in a trade. It would cost too much and be a short term fix. Jmho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Antipin and Guhle are going to be on the big club. Bogo is probably here too. Gorges has another year left and we have Falk and Austin under contract. The key is too not over cook Risto. The other is to let Bogo, Risto, McCabe and probably Antipin support the rush. Gorges is serviceable bottom pair d at 12 to 14 minutes a game. I wouldn't count on a blockbuster top pair d coming in a trade. It would cost too much and be a short term fix. Jmho You could be right, certainly a fair analysis. Also hopefully Bogo can fair much better under a new HC. Just the thought of Antipin and Guhle making the team make it look better automatically, admittedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Antipin and Guhle are going to be on the big club. Bogo is probably here too. Gorges has another year left and we have Falk and Austin under contract. The key is too not over cook Risto. The other is to let Bogo, Risto, McCabe and probably Antipin support the rush. Gorges is serviceable bottom pair d at 12 to 14 minutes a game. I wouldn't count on a blockbuster top pair d coming in a trade. It would cost too much and be a short term fix. Jmho There won't be a blockbuster, but they certainly do need to add a legitimate top 4 Dman this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 There won't be a blockbuster, but they certainly do need to add a legitimate top 4 Dman this offseason. It couldn't hurt. But I dont see a huge trade to accomplish it. Maybe a UFA or a minor deal, but I can't see a Fowler or Hanifin type deal. Again, jmho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 BPA all the way at 8th overall. Dropping 2 spots sucks but we should still have a shot at someone pretty exciting at 8: Rasmussen, Makar, Glass, Pettersson, Liljegren, Valimaki, etc. - some of these guys will be there. I want him just so that we can have three different prospects at the same time (no matter how briefly) with the same name each with a different spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 I think Hiskainen will be there. I really do. There's just to much offensive talent for picks 1-7 to pass. Lots of centres. I'll respectfully disagree. I think he is gone top 3. It will be great if you are right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 What are the chances that any of the top dmen in this draft class can play this year for us? I know dmen take a while to develop but not all. My guess is we'll have second best dman in draft. I think your guess is wrong. the Top 2 will be gone before the Sabres draft IMO. So Id' say there is basically 0 chance of one of them play for the Sabres next season (unless they trade up). Heiskanen is the only one I can see playing in the NHL next season. Dominated against his peers and played pro hockey. Liljegren can from a physical stand-point but maybe another year of pro hockey in Sweden would serve him well. He had a tough year with being sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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