2017 NHL Draft -- General NHL Thread

[North Buffalo]

An excess rw will not get a Forbert trade done for the exact reason you mentioned, hence the need to trade our #8 for him. Mark my words, he's gonna be a solid dman for years. We should move on him.

Sabres have Austin is Forbert that much better?

[Randall Flagg]

Forbort had a decent season, despite what his corsi might tell you. He can skate pretty well but also has very very solid gap control skills. He's not just a "stay at home" defender in the sense that he gets shelled 100% of the time he's out there and can't play hockey. He's legitimately good at facing skaters 1v1 on the rush and at winning board battles. T

That said, 8th overall is a fair bit off of his value IMO.

[I-90 W]

Sabres have Austin is Forbert that much better?

Much better from what we have seen. The sampling of Austin is 5 NHL games total. Forbort played an entire season for LA last year. Similar in size but that's it. Heck I'd trade #8 and Austin for Forbort. LA would take that trade.

Forbort had a decent season, despite what his corsi might tell you. He can skate pretty well but also has very very solid gap control skills. He's not just a "stay at home" defender in the sense that he gets shelled 100% of the time he's out there and can't play hockey. He's legitimately good at facing skaters 1v1 on the rush and at winning board battles. T

 

That said, 8th overall is a fair bit off of his value IMO.

Thanks for the analysis. #8 and a later pick or prospect may be overpayment but it would be a solid move for our blue line for years to come. I really am big on Forbort. Edited May 4, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan

[pi2000]

Trading Kane or Reinhart or the 8th overall for immediate help on defense would be a panic move and a mistake that would set this franchise back years.

 

This team is not that far off that they need to trade a top forward or top 10 overall pick to make the playoffs next season.

 

I hope Botterill is smart enough to realize that.

[Randall Flagg]

Much better from what we have seen. The sampling of Austin is 5 NHL games total. Forbort played an entire season for LA last year. Similar in size but that's it. Heck I'd trade #8 and Austin for Forbort. LA would take that trade.

Thanks for the analysis. #8 and a later pick or prospect may be overpayment but it would be a solid move for our blue line for years to come. I really am big on Forbort.

I mean, I think you could get him for less, is all I'm saying. No need to even shell out that much!

[I-90 W]

I mean, I think you could get him for less, is all I'm saying. No need to even shell out that much!

Agreed and that wouldn't be the initial offer but I would go that far to get him is what I'm saying. His perceived value to us, given our circumstance, is worth it. It's a realistic proposition that our hypothetical trade partner would agree to.

[TrueBlueGED]

Trading Kane or Reinhart or the 8th overall for immediate help on defense would be a panic move and a mistake that would set this franchise back years.

 

This team is not that far off that they need to trade a top forward or top 10 overall pick to make the playoffs next season.

 

I hope Botterill is smart enough to realize that.

 

Isn't this conclusions incredibly premature? Shouldn't we know who the defenseman is?

[JohnRobertEichel]

Trading Kane or Reinhart or the 8th overall for immediate help on defense would be a panic move and a mistake that would set this franchise back years.

 

This team is not that far off that they need to trade a top forward or top 10 overall pick to make the playoffs next season.

 

I hope Botterill is smart enough to realize that.

 

Exactly. Well said. I don't even think a major trade is necessary. The 8th overall pick, two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders, Antipin, a couple other modest free agents, and a competent head coach who is the opposite of Bylsma will probably be enough to make the playoffs next season and set the franchise on a course to be a long-term perennial contender.

 

Just off the top of my head, I can go 5 deep at each forward position plus goalie:

 

LW: Kane, Ennis, Girgensons, Carrier, Foligno

C: Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Asplund, Larsson

RW: Nylander, Okposo, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching

G: Lehner, Petersen, Nilsson, Ullmark, Johansson

 

Defense is admittedly a little more difficult. This is the best I can do at the moment:

 

Kulikov - Ristolainen

McCabe - Bogosian

Guhle - Borgen

 

We will probably want to replace Kulikov, Bogosian, and Borgen with better players in addition to adding defensemen prospect depth. But I'm not at all convinced a major trade out of desperation is necessary. Especially if Heiskanen drops to us or if Liljegren or Valimaki project to top-pair LHD.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Borgen?  He is returning to school.  Kulikov isn't returning at any price.  You are forgetting about Antipin.

[pi2000]

Borgen?  He is returning to school.  Kulikov isn't returning at any price.  You are forgetting about Antipin.

 

Antipin hasn't even signed yet, and he's an unknown quantity.    

 

Kulikov is as good as gone IMO.    Gorges probably gets one more year in the bottom pairing.

 

UFA - Risto

McCabe - Bogo

Guhle - Gorges

Antipin

 

With Borgen, Stephens, draft pick, Fitzgerald, Austin all in the pipeline.   

 

UFAs... Stone, Del Zotto, Shattenkirk, Alzner, Smith.    I'd even consider older vets like Oduya, Daley, Hainsey, Shultz, Quincey, etc...

 

There will be UFA options, no need to panic and start making trades.

[I-90 W]

I understand that there are a lot of people that do not want to trade our #8 pick. Honestly  though not only do I think we should, I think we will. If we extend Kane this summer, and I hope we do,  it's definitely happening. I don't envision a new GM coming in, signing Antipin, shedding some dead weight, calling a few players up and calling it a day. Nor do I think we will land a UFA.

 

That will be most of it, but I anticipate a significant trade for a young NHL ready dman before next season.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan

[Thorny]

No it doesn't.  You can't keep trading away the future for expensive players in a cap world.  You need to draft and develop internal talent to be competitive long term.  We just had a GM who would trade away 1st rd picks and high end prospects at a drop of a hat and look where that got us; 5th worst in the NHL but with an $80 mill payroll.  

 

It's time for hockey trades.  Trades like Kane for Vatanen.

 

I agree with Dudacek.  If you want Forbert, one of our excess RW makes the most sense.  However, LA isn't trading him to us or anyone else.  He is one of the few bargain players they have.

 

 

 

I would also rather acquire a Vatanen type D man without giving up #8, but I don't agree that it's wrong to trade the pick in principle if it's needed to get our D man, and in no way would we be sacrificing the future to do so. We would be acquiring a young D man who can grow with our core.

 

Trading Kane or Reinhart or the 8th overall for immediate help on defense would be a panic move and a mistake that would set this franchise back years.

 

This team is not that far off that they need to trade a top forward or top 10 overall pick to make the playoffs next season.

 

I hope Botterill is smart enough to realize that.

What is your plan to acquire the D help we so desperately need?

 

Antipin hasn't even signed yet, and he's an unknown quantity.    

 

Kulikov is as good as gone IMO.    Gorges probably gets one more year in the bottom pairing.

 

UFA - Risto

McCabe - Bogo

Guhle - Gorges

Antipin

 

With Borgen, Stephens, draft pick, Fitzgerald, Austin all in the pipeline.   

 

UFAs... Stone, Del Zotto, Shattenkirk, Alzner, Smith.    I'd even consider older vets like Oduya, Daley, Hainsey, Shultz, Quincey, etc...

 

There will be UFA options, no need to panic and start making trades.

This isn't going to get it done. I can't stress that enough. People putting together a d line up on paper for next year that's consisting of pretty much this year's D, adding in Guhle and Antipin, need to prepare themselves for another bottom of the league finish if that happens. All year we heard about how we needed an upgrade at D. A rookie, a KHL signing, and an overpriced old vet aren't gong to get it done.

 

It is a necessity that the new GM trades for a top 4 defenceman. There is no way around it.

[pi2000]

 

This isn't going to get it done. I can't stress that enough. People putting together a d line up on paper for next year that's consisting of pretty much this year's D, adding in Guhle and Antipin, need to prepare themselves for another bottom of the league finish if that happens. All year we heard about how we needed an upgrade at D. A rookie, a KHL signing, and an overpriced old vet aren't gong to get it done.

 

It is a necessity that the new GM trades for a top 4 defenceman. There is no way around it.

 

Trading picks and prospects are moves made by teams on the verge of contending for a Cup.

 

BUF isn't even a playoff contender at this point.   They need to continue to build the right way through the draft and developing their prospects.  

 

A couple UFA signings would go a long way toward shoring up the D... making it at least a playoff worthy team without mortgaging the future..  

 

Remember, the goal isn't just to sneak into the playoffs... the goal is to contend for years down the road, and you don't do that by trading away promising young prospects and top 10 draft picks to plug holes just so you can sneak into a playoff spot. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by pi2000

[Thorny]

Trading picks and prospects are moves made by teams on the verge of contending for a Cup.

 

BUF isn't even a playoff contender at this point.   They need to continue to build the right way through the draft and developing their prospects.  

 

A couple UFA signings would go a long way toward shoring up the D... making it at least a playoff worthy team without mortgaging the future..  

 

Remember, the goal isn't just to sneak into the playoffs... the goal is to contend for years down the road, and you don't do that by trading away promising young prospects and top 10 draft picks to plug holes just so you can sneak into a playoff spot.

 

It is a young man's league. There's no reason we can't contend with our young forward core, if we get some help on the back end immediately. We need to make strides for contention now, when Eichel and Reinhart are on ELCs. Acquiring a youngish D man would not be mortgaging the future. He would help us be better now and down the road, it's not a plug-a-hole stop-gap.

 

Ideally, we would already have another young D man or two, ready to play a consistent top 4 role. Someone else near Risto's timeline. But our previous GMs did not draft that player when they needed to be drafted, to be ready to contribute this coming season with our growing young core. They missed the boat, and we can't afford to slow the development of the young core we do have, waiting 3/4 years for a young drafted D man to develop. We need to acquire that guy we should have already had. It was missed in the original process.

 

If we can figure out a way to supplement the D in a meaningful way without trading our first, that's great, and preferable. But it's not a non-starter for me.

[Huckleberry]

When Antipin signs we really need RHD more than anything else.

[I-90 W]

Trading picks and prospects are moves made by teams on the verge of contending for a Cup.

 

BUF isn't even a playoff contender at this point. They need to continue to build the right way through the draft and developing their prospects.

 

A couple UFA signings would go a long way toward shoring up the D... making it at least a playoff worthy team without mortgaging the future..

 

Remember, the goal isn't just to sneak into the playoffs... the goal is to contend for years down the road, and you don't do that by trading away promising young prospects and top 10 draft picks to plug holes just so you can sneak into a playoff spot.

Thing about UFAs though is they have to want to come here, and we may have to pay a premium to land one.

[Randall Flagg]

When Antipin signs we really need RHD more than anything else.

He does play for the right side, but if we don't want Bogo around we will need another body there to replace Franson.

[Huckleberry]

He does play for the right side, but if we don't want Bogo around we will need another body there to replace Franson.

 

A didn't know, figured he played left :p

[Crusader1969]

If we can trade our #8 for a NHL ready D man then that is what we need to do

 

We have no time to wait for a #8 D pick to be NHL ready this year. We best be looking at teams who have plenty of salary cap issues and desperate for draft picks there are a few we should be able to get a good D man

 

 

why dont we have time? Sabres going to be cup contenders next season? The guy drafted at 8 has a good shot at the NHL in 18-19 and has a chance to be way better than a middle pairing Dman. 

If we can trade our #8 for a NHL ready D man then that is what we need to do

 

We have no time to wait for a #8 D pick to be NHL ready this year. We best be looking at teams who have plenty of salary cap issues and desperate for draft picks there are a few we should be able to get a good D man

 

and if a team is desperate, why the heck am I giving up the 8th pick?? makes zero sense.

It took him so long to reach the NHL because LA is a tough lineup to crack for a dman. He played very well in his own end last season, is 6'4" and I think hes a gem. I think hed be a solid stay at home lhd for us.

 

https://realsport101.com/news/sports/nhl/derek-forbort-the-kings-rising-star

 

sorry but this is a terrible idea. Sabres need puck movers not stay at home Dmen! I can sign a UFA if i need another stay at home dman.

Trading Kane or Reinhart or the 8th overall for immediate help on defense would be a panic move and a mistake that would set this franchise back years.

 

This team is not that far off that they need to trade a top forward or top 10 overall pick to make the playoffs next season.

 

I hope Botterill is smart enough to realize that.

 

 

the Voice of Reason! thank you :)

[Thorny]

There is nothing wrong with trading the pick to acquire a Dman of the level there's NO guarantee the drafted player will become anyways, and certainly not on a timeline that will allow us to get anything out of the ELCs of Jack and Sam.

 

It doesn't matter if we are going to be Cup contenders next year or not. If trading the pick can help us to be a lot better, as soon as next year, it's worth considering.

 

There's no sense acting like the player we get in a trade will be a "win now" only player.

[LGR4GM]

In 2019 and 2020 we'll be competing for the cup. So do you want a Heiskanen on another team or on an ELC for 975k sitting on your bench? This would be a terrible year to trade that pick for immediate help when we'll need that player precisely when they should enter the league and with a contract that is dirt cheap.

[I-90 W]

In 2019 and 2020 we'll be competing for the cup. So do you want a Heiskanen on another team or on an ELC for 975k sitting on your bench? This would be a terrible year to trade that pick for immediate help when we'll need that player precisely when they should enter the league and with a contract that is dirt cheap.

But Heiskanen isn't going to drop to 8. Whoever we get will probably be cutting their teeth in the NHL in 2019/ 2020. Our forwards need to play on a decent team if we want to keep what we have.

[LGR4GM]

But Heiskanen isn't going to drop to 8. Whoever we get will probably be cutting their teeth in the NHL in 2019/ 2020. Our forwards need to play on a decent team if we want to keep what we have.

What?

[Randall Flagg]

At this point I have learned it is foolish to assume your team will be competitive for a cup X years into the future.

 

They have a lot of work to do and we don't even know who will be attempting it yet.

[I-90 W]

What?

Dmen take longer to develop, you know this. Our forwards, Jack, Sam, Kane etc, will not want to stay here long term when our d is getting shelled every game. We may already lose Kane to UFA next year. Sam and Jack don't have as much freedom obviously but they will eventually. Our blue line needs fixing, now.