spndnchz Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 And BOOM! Cap dot com site goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Fair points, but I'm not making the trade expected him to be Doughty. More like hoping for Numminen and being OK with Hjalmarsson. Kid has only played 160 games. I think defencemen need to play twice that before you start making conclusions. Can't disagree. Hey, at least I admit I'm using his draft pedigree unfairly against him :lol: Come to think of it, that draft was miserable at the top. Maybe I should think of him more as a #10 pick in a normal draft rather than #2 in a bad one. As for comparisons, what are the chances you think he could be a Hamhuis? I'm willing to be talked into this. So many comparables showing Risto value is 6 years at around $5.5. Why hasn't he signed yet? I think Murray may really want to bridge to make way for the Stamkos truck without shedding salary elsewhere, and Risto's camp is having none of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I think Murray may really want to bridge to make way for the Stamkos truck without shedding salary elsewhere, and Risto's camp is having none of it. Fair theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Can't disagree. Hey, at least I admit I'm using his draft pedigree unfairly against him :lol: Come to think of it, that draft was miserable at the top. Maybe I should think of him more as a #10 pick in a normal draft rather than #2 in a bad one. As for comparisons, what are the chances you think he could be a Hamhuis? I'm willing to be talked into this. I think Murray may really want to bridge to make way for the Stamkos truck without shedding salary elsewhere, and Risto's camp is having none of it. This is a horrible idea IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 And likely putting them over the cap. But that doesn't matter for now. So many comparables showing Risto value is 6 years at around $5.5. Why hasn't he signed yet? Do you know that a contract was presented for him to sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I think Murray may really want to bridge to make way for the Stamkos truck without shedding salary elsewhere, and Risto's camp is having none of it. I love the smell of victory in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 But that doesn't matter for now. Do you know that a contract was presented for him to sign? No I don't. So I guess my question is why hasn't he been presented with that offer? If it's as True suggests, I think that's a huge mistake. Risto is a guy you lock in to $5.5 mil per year for now and look like a genius two years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 No I don't. So I guess my question is why hasn't he been presented with that offer? If it's as True suggests, I think that's a huge mistake. Risto is a guy you lock in to $5.5 mil per year for now and look like a genius two years from now. ...or look like a bozo if he turns out like Roy, Stafford, Hodgson, Myers or any of a number of other young players whose GMs pulled the trigger too early on a fat long-term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I love the smell of victory in the morning! I don't hear no fat lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Can't disagree. Hey, at least I admit I'm using his draft pedigree unfairly against him :lol: Come to think of it, that draft was miserable at the top. Maybe I should think of him more as a #10 pick in a normal draft rather than #2 in a bad one. As for comparisons, what are the chances you think he could be a Hamhuis? I'm willing to be talked into this. I think Murray may really want to bridge to make way for the Stamkos truck without shedding salary elsewhere, and Risto's camp is having none of it. Hamhuis is a great comparable. I think he's already closer than you think and will play in the league for 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Per actual honest to god Bob McKenzie, Mason Raymond and Eric Nystrom on buyout waivers, Brad Stuart clears. Woof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 ...or look like a bozo if he turns out like Roy, Stafford, Hodgson, Myers or any of a number of other young players whose GMs pulled the trigger too early on a fat long-term deal. Yep that's right. But Risto is a guy I'm betting on. I think in today's salary cap world you have to bet on your guys. Maybe Tim isn't confident in Risto as I would have thought. But if you don't place those educated bets your paying a lot of guys a lot of money in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Yep that's right. But Risto is a guy I'm betting on. I think in today's salary cap world you have to bet on your guys. Maybe Tim isn't confident in Risto as I would have thought. But if you don't place those educated bets your paying a lot of guys a lot of money in a couple of years. Absolutely. With the elimination of back diving contracts, you have to get value on your stars if you plan on having a few mid-level vets in the supporting cast, and the only way that's going to happen is going long term off the ELC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Hamhuis is a great comparable. I think he's already closer than you think and will play in the league for 15 years. I'm not going to pretend to watch a lot of Columbus, so sure, I'm sold. You gonna call Jarmo, or shall I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Absolutely. With the elimination of back diving contracts, you have to get value on your stars if you plan on having a few mid-level vets in the supporting cast, and the only way that's going to happen is going long term off the ELC. But how much do we really think can be saved this way? If Seth Jones is a comparable, then a bridge deal now for Risto would have the Sabres paying $5.4MM per year for maybe the first 2-3 years of Risto's UFA period, right? (Maybe a bit less than $5.4MM, but not substantially less -- $5.2MM per year is probably the floor.) There are only 16 defensemen in the NHL making $6MM per year or more, of whom only 7 make $7MM per year or more and only 4 make $7.5MM per year or more. Given that league-wide salary structure, how much would Risto realistically get after, say, a 3-year bridge deal? At that point, he'd still have a year to go before UFA, allowing the Sabres to have 3 more years of observing his development and a full year to sign him to an extension. How likely is it that Risto would command a salary that would put him into the top 5 in the NHL among defensemen (with PK, Weber, Suter and Byfuglien)? Isn't it more likely that he turns out to be more in the top-12-to-top-25 grouping? That would put him into a $5.5MM to $6.5MM salary range -- which is pretty close to what he'd get under a Seth Jones deal now. And if he does turn into a top-5, $7.5MM+ player -- that's a good problem to have. I vote for keeping our pants on, keeping our powder dry for Stamkos or other worthy player, and signing Risto to the contract he's earned when we have enough info to make a sober decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I don't hear no fat lady! I don't see no fat lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Maybe we can get Risto to sign to 8x5.8mil per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I still don't see why people want to offer Ristolainen a 6 year deal. That would only buy 2 UFA years. If you're not going to lock him up for the full 8 years then you are better off giving him a 3 year bridge deal and then locking him up long term with a year to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I still don't see why people want to offer Ristolainen a 6 year deal. That would only buy 2 UFA years. If you're not going to lock him up for the full 8 years then you are better off giving him a 3 year bridge deal and then locking him up long term with a year to go. Statistically, he's only worth $3.5-4.0. Why would he sign a long term deal at that price? A bridge makes more sense from his perspective, eg if he believes he'll be worth much more in 2-3 years. However, the Sabres might want a bit longer deal 5-6 yr, at $4.5 tops. He's not a $5m player yet, and who knows if he ever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Man I wish we had a Ristolainen contract thread to discuss this... oh wait. Yes I am thread policing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 But how much do we really think can be saved this way? If Seth Jones is a comparable, then a bridge deal now for Risto would have the Sabres paying $5.4MM per year for maybe the first 2-3 years of Risto's UFA period, right? (Maybe a bit less than $5.4MM, but not substantially less -- $5.2MM per year is probably the floor.) There are only 16 defensemen in the NHL making $6MM per year or more, of whom only 7 make $7MM per year or more and only 4 make $7.5MM per year or more. Given that league-wide salary structure, how much would Risto realistically get after, say, a 3-year bridge deal? At that point, he'd still have a year to go before UFA, allowing the Sabres to have 3 more years of observing his development and a full year to sign him to an extension. How likely is it that Risto would command a salary that would put him into the top 5 in the NHL among defensemen (with PK, Weber, Suter and Byfuglien)? Isn't it more likely that he turns out to be more in the top-12-to-top-25 grouping? That would put him into a $5.5MM to $6.5MM salary range -- which is pretty close to what he'd get under a Seth Jones deal now. And if he does turn into a top-5, $7.5MM+ player -- that's a good problem to have. I vote for keeping our pants on, keeping our powder dry for Stamkos or other worthy player , and signing Risto to the contract he's earned when we have enough info to make a sober decision. Many things can be said about the Great Steven Stamkos Debate of 2016. One thing that cannot be said is that your pants are currently on while anticipating the decision :p I'll have a full rebuttal later when I can more readily look up numbers. Fair warning: it will be merciless and leave you begging for reprieve! Statistically, he's only worth $3.5-4.0. Why would he sign a long term deal at that price? A bridge makes more sense from his perspective, eg if he believes he'll be worth much more in 2-3 years. However, the Sabres might want a bit longer deal 5-6 yr, at $4.5 tops. He's not a $5m player yet , and who knows if he ever will be. The market says you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Vanek will sign with the sabres 2x3 mill because #ZFG and he'll put up 30 goal seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Vanek will sign with the sabres 2x3 mill because #ZFG and he'll put up 30 goal seasons. This is not the craziest idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Many things can be said about the Great Steven Stamkos Debate of 2016. One thing that cannot be said is that your pants are currently on while anticipating the decision :P I'll have a full rebuttal later when I can more readily look up numbers. Fair warning: it will be merciless and leave you begging for reprieve! Well, there's those worth dropping pants for, and those that ain't. Vanek will sign with the sabres 2x3 mill because #ZFG and he'll put up 30 goal seasons. There is zero chance of this happening IMHO. Vanek is about as far as it gets from a GMTM kinda guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 There is zero chance of this happening IMHO. Vanek is about as far as it gets from a GMTM kinda guy. Also, I think he's experiencing a Moulson-esque (Yuri An)dropov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts