Steven Stamkos stays in Tampa Bay, 8.5mil x 8yrs

[PASabreFan]

I have to do a little digging on what makes Stamkos tick. But I don't see why staying in Tampa, even at a hometown discount, wouldn't be the most logical play for him. It's home. He surely has made friends there, maybe a serious gal friend. It's a good organ-eye-zation that will give him a chance to win. And it's Florida in the winter, for crying out loud.

Edited June 29, 2016 by PASabreFan

[WildCard]

I have to do a little digging on what makes Stamkos tick. But I don't see why staying in Tampa, even at a hometown discount, wouldn't be the most logical play for him. It's home. He surely has made friends there, maybe a serious gal friend. It's a good organ-eye-zation that will give him a chance to win. And it's Florida in the winter, for crying out loud.

Staying in Tampa is by far the best option for him. All he has to take is a $2m discount

 

I did hear this in GR and they raised a very good point: Even if he wants more money, and Buffalo is the best place to win now and we offer the most money, that isn't equal to the amount of overall money he can make from endorsements elsewhere. If you think we're going to outbid him outright, think about his marketing in the hockey center that is Toronto, and an original 6 team in a big city with Detroit

Edited June 29, 2016 by WildCard

[Hoss]

Jack Eichel and Steven Stamkos already have a Bauer commercial together. Make it easier and throw on the same sweater.

Also, the marketing argument is valid but not nearly as important as it used to be. Location isn't such a dominant factor anymore when it comes to endorsements. It matters more in hockey than it does in other leagues, but it's still not on the level it used to be.

[7+6=13]

I found these numbers interesting.  Might not be about money at all.  I really had no idea Canadian taxes were much worse than NY.

 

As a

Tampa Bay Times

analysis in January showed, Stamkos could net nearly the same annually after taxes in Tampa Bay at $8.5 million as $10 million in New York (Rangers, Islanders), presuming he'd be a New York City resident; Stamkos would make more over the length of the deal in Tampa because of the extra year. Stamkos would net $500,000 less annually than a $10 million deal with Detroit, another strong suitor, but, again, more over the length of the deal.

 

And Stamkos' hometown Maple Leafs, due to a 53.53 percent combined federal/provincial tax rate, would have to offer him $12.37 million annually over seven years to net the same as he'd make over eight years at $8.5 million in Tampa, according to national sports tax guru Robert Raiola, the director of the Sports and Entertainment group at PKF O'Connor Davis, who has professional sports clients throughout the country.

[beerme1]

Without a goalie?

 

 

We have a goalie and quite likely our backup also. Johnson's market isn't what he would like it to be. He's not a kid.

 

 

 

Just not Toronto, that's the only outcome that would bring me down

 

 

I get this but wont you be happy they sign the cripple contract lol

 

 

 

No doubt they'll be looking to do this. If they want to drive their price up, Buffalo is the perfect tool to do this. Plus, it makes zero sense for him to sign with Buffalo when his hometown team also wants him. Zero.

 

That said, if Toronto wants to give him 12+ million every year for the next 7 years, due to us, I'll drive him to Toronto to sign his name. That'll be a crippling contract for them with only a slim chance he ever lives up to that contract.

 

Newport is under a legal obligation to do what's in the best interest of their clients, not the negotiating GM. Getting the very best contract for their clients trumps any relationships they may have with GMs.

 

 

If we sign him to that same contract and win a cup you will cheer for it right?

 

 

 

Buying out moulson gets interesting as from next offseason, Maybe Las Vegas want him to get to the bottom floor.

 

 

If he plays at the same level of crap as this season there are two options, Roch or buyout.

 

 

 

First, poor examples. Not a day goes by on here where someone is not complaining about Moulson's contract. He's the perfect example of bust (outside of Leino). Then there's Kane. Again, not worth the money we pay him and some think we should either trade him or send him to the 3rd line. But, that's immaterial.

 

The biggest question is: what Stamkos will we get? The 25 goal scorer or the 60 goal scorer? Considering I don't think anyone will score 60 in the near future, coupled with him getting older, my compromise is 30-35 goals per season. Is it worth it? Sure, for the next 3-4 years it definitely is. But what happens when we have to pay BOTH Samson and Jack? You willing to let one of them walk because we need to pay Stamkos the last 3 years of his contract?

 

 

We've won a cup under this scenario right? I 'll deal with it.

 

 

I am of a similar mind.  I flat out don't want the Sabres to acquire him.  We have a good thing going and I see Stamkos and a huge K subtracting more than it adds. 

 

Also, for a mega priced superstar, he's a bit of a one trick pony with flaws in his game.

 

I can think of many superstars I'd have before Stamkos, if they were equally available.

 

Drew Doughty, Erik Karlsson, Toews and Patrick Kane are all way more valuable players in my opinion, to name a quick four off the top of my head.

 

 

Of those you think you would want more than Stamkos, which are available for nothing more than Frackin money? Bueller? Bueller?

 

 

 

I agree with the bolded, but I think that there's a reasonable chance they keep him even after they sign Stammer.

 

2 main variables IMHO:

 

1 -- as you noted, how well he plays

2 -- how much the cap rises.

 

I think there's a pretty good chance that Kane plays very well, in multiple areas, and is a tough MF, for the next 2 years -- and that as a result, GMTM and everyone here will want to keep him.

 

I also think there's a so-so chance that the Canadian dollar will rise enough against the US dollar between now and the trade deadline in 2018 to push the cap high enough so that it will be a no-brainer.

 

Expensive core forwards 3 years from now:  ROR, Stammer, Eichel, Reino, Kane

Rising youngsters, some of whom will have to be dealt:  Nylander, Fasching, Vesey, Asplund

 

Expensive core defensemen 3 years from now:  Risto, XXX?

Mid-priced core defensemen:  Kulikov, McCabe

 

The 10th-13th forwards and 5th-7th defensemen will be cheap, mostly young, and cycled through based on cost and production.

 

That's a team I'm extremely psyched to see, btw.

 

 

So Thorny, I agree with you even though your name isn't in this quote it comes from you. We do want Kane to stick around because he is willing to be tough and stick up for all of our suddenly little guys. If he can get his together off ice he will be fine.

 

 

nfreeman, you still have Kulikov on the team three years from now so obviously we re signed him. Did we protect him in the expansion draft or sign him as an fa?  

[dudacek]

I hear a lot of Stamkos will/won't because from people who don't know the man.
It's down to his personal preferences on a number of factors.

Think about it like this: he's got a job and he's considering other offers.

 

Spoilered for length

 

 

Will it mean moving?
Tampa: No, and this is a nice place to live - warm, sunny, and I'm comfortable and well-respected here. Is this where I want to spend the rest of my life?

Buffalo: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a downtrodden reputation, although I hear the latter may be on the rebound. It does have some nightlife if I'm in to that, and by all accounts it's really good for people who like the outdoors and the quiet life. It's pretty close to home. Good place to raise a family, houses are cheap. People are warm and welcoming and they will give you some space. But if it's the high life I'm into, I'm not going to find find it here. Neither the city, nor the landscape is particularly beautiful.

Detroit: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a downtrodden reputation. I hear the suburbs are real nice though for people who like the country club lifestyle. It's got something of a jet-set social scene, OK nightlife, old money and outdoors. It's pretty close to home. It's bigger and has its share of culture, with space to move into and out of the fast lane. Neither the city, nor the landscape is particularly beautiful.

Toronto: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a vibrant reputation. It's the media and business centre of Canada with lots of cultural opportunities, a huge country club scene and a fast-paced nightlife. It is home, if that's where I want to be. People will worship me if I succeed and make my life miserable if I don't. It will be hard to find space outside the public eye. Houses are expensive. The downtown is modern, the countryside isn't particularly beautiful.

Will it mean a raise?
Tampa: Yes. But not nearly as much as I would get elsewhere. The taxes are better here though.

Buffalo: Yes. No one will offer me more. I could become the highest paid man in my field.

Detroit: Yes, comparable to my peers.

Toronto: Yes. Significantly more. The taxes are much worse, but the bonus opportunities better.

What kind of reputation does the company have?
Tampa: It's competitive and generally respected. I know it well. I have some frustration with upper management; I've given them a lot, but they've shown signs they don't fully appreciate my contributions. The CEO and I don't see eye to eye and I'm not sure I trust him. We're not treated badly, but it's not entirely first-class either. I like my co-workers, although if I remain it's likely some of them will leave. The facilities are OK. The travel can be draining. It will remain competitive for some time,

Buffalo: it's an old company that went through some rough times recently. But it's got new ownership and they've really sunk a lot of cash into turning it into a first-class operation. No expense is spared the owner is warm and generous and the staff is given everything they need to succeed. The CEO is odd, but he's aggressive and has been bringing in some top young people. He sees me as a key addition to his team, someone who will put the firm over the top. The facilities are first-class and the travel amongst the easiest in the league. It's not a top firm yet, and there is no guarantee it will be, but it's universally recognized as being on the way up.

Detroit: it was once the class of the industry and is still a respected operation. The leadership is old and somewhat stagnant, but still very capable. Employees are treated well and rewarded for their loyalty. The CEO is as sharp as they come. The staff is solid if vanilla. The CEO recognizes the firm needs some new blood and wants me to take a lead role in reinjecting some life into the operation as their old guard retires. The facilities and the market are a little tired, but the travel is good and new headquarters are under construction. It's a fading company, but with a strong base. It's a safe leap. The question is will I have enough help to move it from good to great?

Toronto: a venerable, huge and high-profile firm that hasn't made money for years. The owner is cold and corporate. The president unproven, but he has charisma and has hired a veteran shark to be CEO and some celebrated young talent to work on his executive. The staff under them is a mix of placeholders and untrained, but talented kids. My job is to shield those kids and be the centre of the operation until they mature enough to hopefully turn us into a powerhouse. We will be given good tools to work with in a first-class environment. Travel is easy. Results are expected. Everyone is under the microscope.

What's the boss like?
Tampa: we have a workable relationship, but I wouldn't call it good. I don't always like the way he utilizes me and I'm not sure I forgive him for the way he upset the apple cart when he arrived.

Buffalo: he seems like a smart, genial, energetic guy - approachable and positive, but with a competitive streak. Very structured and detail-oriented. He's won it all and that has to count for something.

Detroit: he doesn't have that much of a resume, but he seems capable enough and a decent guy.

Toronto: exacting and disciplined, the definition of tough but fair. Very structured and detail-oriented. He's won it all and coaches the national team and that has to count for something.

How does it advance my career?
Tampa: I will play centre and wing on a loaded cup contender in a key role, if not exactly the role I want.

Buffalo: I will play a key scoring centre and leadership role on an improving team, rolling the dice that the elite emerging talent behind and around me matures into a contender as early as this year.

Detroit: I will be the obvious centrepiece of a solid team that should be a good bet to make the playoffs, but will need to make significant changes to elevate into a true contender.

Toronto: I will play a key scoring centre and leadership role on an improving team, rolling the dice that the elite emerging talent behind and around me matures into a contender within a few years.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by dudacek

[Hoss]

Do athletes get significant tax returns on the taxes they lay in their salaries? I would think this is an obvious yes. How much, though? Is it enough to put a dent in the "Tampa Bay can pay way more because of taxes" argument?

[beerme1]

I have to do a little digging on what makes Stamkos tick. But I don't see why staying in Tampa, even at a hometown discount, wouldn't be the most logical play for him. It's home. He surely has made friends there, maybe a serious gal friend. It's a good organ-eye-zation that will give him a chance to win. And it's Florida in the winter, for crying out loud.

 

It is the best place for him but I think he has a feeling that he's been burned by Stevie Y and is ready to move on.

 

 

Staying in Tampa is by far the best option for him. All he has to take is a $2m discount

 

I did hear this in GR and they raised a very good point: Even if he wants more money, and Buffalo is the best place to win now and we offer the most money, that isn't equal to the amount of overall money he can make from endorsements elsewhere. If you think we're going to outbid him outright, think about his marketing in the hockey center that is Toronto, and an original 6 team in a big city with Detroit

 

 

He's a hockey player though. I don't think he will have a problem here in January. And I think maybe possibly more than the endorsement money, since he already has enough, he will appreciate being able to move about town and even gas his freaking car up without being mobbed, or just walking virtually anywhere in public all day, every day. It happens in hog town, it's no so bad at all here.

 

Welcome to Buffalo Steven Stamkos. Help get our name engraved on the cup. Also, party like it's 1999

[beerme1]

I hear a lot of Stamkos will/won't because from people who don't know the man.

It's down to his personal preferences on a number of factors.

 

Think about it like this: he's got a job and he's considering other offers.

 

Spoilered for length

 

 

 

Will it mean moving?

Tampa: No, and this is a nice place to live - warm, sunny, and I'm comfortable and well-respected here. Is this where I want to spend the rest of my life?

 

Buffalo: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a downtrodden reputation, although I hear the latter may be on the rebound. It does have some nightlife if I'm in to that, and by all accounts it's really good for people who like the outdoors and the quiet life. It's pretty close to home. Good place to raise a family, houses are cheap. People are warm and welcoming and they will give you some space. But if it's the high life I'm into, I'm not going to find find it here. Neither the city, nor the landscape is particularly beautiful.

 

Detroit: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a downtrodden reputation. I hear the suburbs are real nice though for people who like the country club lifestyle. It's got something of a jet-set social scene, OK nightlife, old money and outdoors. It's pretty close to home. It's bigger and has its share of culture, with space to move into and out of the fast lane. Neither the city, nor the landscape is particularly beautiful.

 

Toronto: Yes. To a place with cold winters and a vibrant reputation. It's the media and business centre of Canada with lots of cultural opportunities, a huge country club scene and a fast-paced nightlife. It is home, if that's where I want to be. People will worship me if I succeed and make my life miserable if I don't. It will be hard to find space outside the public eye. Houses are expensive. The downtown is modern, the countryside isn't particularly beautiful.

 

Will it mean a raise?

Tampa: Yes. But not nearly as much as I would get elsewhere. The taxes are better here though.

 

Buffalo: Yes. No one will offer me more. I could become the highest paid man in my field.

 

Detroit: Yes, comparable to my peers.

 

Toronto: Yes. Significantly more. The taxes are much worse, but the bonus opportunities better.

 

What kind of reputation does the company have?

Tampa: It's competitive and generally respected. I know it well. I have some frustration with upper management; I've given them a lot, but they've shown signs they don't fully appreciate my contributions. The CEO and I don't see eye to eye and I'm not sure I trust him. We're not treated badly, but it's not entirely first-class either. I like my co-workers, although if I remain it's likely some of them will leave. The facilities are OK. The travel can be draining. It will remain competitive for some time,

 

Buffalo: it's an old company that went through some rough times recently. But it's got new ownership and they've really sunk a lot of cash into turning it into a first-class operation. No expense is spared the owner is warm and generous and the staff is given everything they need to succeed. The CEO is odd, but he's aggressive and has been bringing in some top young people. He sees me as a key addition to his team, someone who will put the firm over the top. The facilities are first-class and the travel amongst the easiest in the league. It's not a top firm yet, and there is no guarantee it will be, but it's universally recognized as being on the way up.

 

Detroit: it was once the class of the industry and is still a respected operation. The leadership is old and somewhat stagnant, but still very capable. Employees are treated well and rewarded for their loyalty. The CEO is as sharp as they come. The staff is solid if vanilla. The CEO recognizes the firm needs some new blood and wants me to take a lead role in reinjecting some life into the operation as their old guard retires. The facilities and the market are a little tired, but the travel is good and new headquarters are under construction. It's a fading company, but with a strong base. It's a safe leap. The question is will I have enough help to move it from good to great?

 

Toronto: a venerable, huge and high-profile firm that hasn't made money for years. The owner is cold and corporate. The president unproven, but he has charisma and has hired a veteran shark to be CEO and some celebrated young talent to work on his executive. The staff under them is a mix of placeholders and untrained, but talented kids. My job is to shield those kids and be the centre of the operation until they mature enough to hopefully turn us into a powerhouse. We will be given good tools to work with in a first-class environment. Travel is easy. Results are expected. Everyone is under the microscope.

 

What's the boss like?

Tampa: we have a workable relationship, but I wouldn't call it good. I don't always like the way he utilizes me and I'm not sure I forgive him for the way he upset the apple cart when he arrived.

 

Buffalo: he seems like a smart, genial, energetic guy - approachable and positive, but with a competitive streak. Very structured and detail-oriented. He's won it all and that has to count for something.

 

Detroit: he doesn't have that much of a resume, but he seems capable enough and a decent guy.

 

Toronto: exacting and disciplined, the definition of tough but fair. Very structured and detail-oriented. He's won it all and coaches the national team and that has to count for something.

 

How does it advance my career?

Tampa: I will play centre and wing on a loaded cup contender in a key role, if not exactly the role I want.

 

Buffalo: I will play a key scoring centre and leadership role on an improving team, rolling the dice that the elite emerging talent behind and around me matures into a contender as early as this year.

 

Detroit: I will be the obvious centrepiece of a solid team that should be a good bet to make the playoffs, but will need to make significant changes to elevate into a true contender.

 

Toronto: I will play a key scoring centre and leadership role on an improving team, rolling the dice that the elite emerging talent behind and around me matures into a contender within a few years.

 

 

 

 

 

Awesome and mostly true. Please forward this to Newport Sports. ASAP!

[nfreeman]

Do athletes get significant tax returns on the taxes they lay in their salaries? I would think this is an obvious yes. How much, though? Is it enough to put a dent in the "Tampa Bay can pay way more because of taxes" argument?

 

I assume you are referring to refunds (not returns)?  And in particular perhaps you are asking whether state taxes are deductible from taxable income for federal income tax purposes?

 

If so, the answer is yes, but the deduction (like most of them) phases out above a certain income level -- so while you're right that it reduces what would otherwise be the spread between NYS and FLA (as does the fact that the athletes pay taxes in the state for each road game), the difference is still substantial. 

[IKnowPhysics]

Rumor: "Leafs have a plan to give Stamkos a $3.5M marketing contract... vetted by the league and the lawyers... not in the player contract."

 

reddit

 

Bob McCown podcast. June 28th 4pm hour @ 7 minutes 29 seconds

 

 

 

McCown: "I've been told by a source that would absolutely know this was true. The Maple Leafs have a plan to give Stamkos a minimum of $3.5M a year in a marketing contract, in broad terms, and that the legitimacy of the deal has been vetted by lawyers."

 

Other host: "Lawyers or the league?"

 

McCown: "Both. The league and the players' association. So it is a vetted thing. Does that mean Stamkos has agreed to terms? Well, on the day that I found out about it, the Leafs couldn't legally talk to him, so I can't say that. But this person said to me that he believes Stamkos will sign with the Toronto Maple Leafs. The $3.5M wouldn't be in the player contract."

 

Other host: "So this would be a side deal, and in theory, the Maple Leafs could never be connected to this deal, or construed to have orchestrated this deal cause that would be in circumvention of the CBA."

 

Other host: "The famous contract Cliff Fletcher signed Doug Gilmour to in the 90s, they signed him to a $6.5M deal, including marketing rights. That's when you saw Dougie everywhere, wearing cow legs for milk ads, etc. That was because the Maple Leafs controlled his marketing rights and then went out did all the marketing deals on his behalf.  That can't happen anymore."

 

McCown:  "Well, you can ask me all you want but I don't have any specifics."

 

It's either or IT REALLY IS .

[pi2000]

Wow, the horse is really starting to fly.

[qwksndmonster]

Staying in Tampa is by far the best option for him. All he has to take is a $2m discount

 

I did hear this in GR and they raised a very good point: Even if he wants more money, and Buffalo is the best place to win now and we offer the most money, that isn't equal to the amount of overall money he can make from endorsements elsewhere. If you think we're going to outbid him outright, think about his marketing in the hockey center that is Toronto, and an original 6 team in a big city with Detroit

Would you take a 2,000,000 dollar pay cut when you know you deserve more? And contracts aren't just the bottom line, they're status symbols directly comparing players to their peers. Edited June 29, 2016 by qwksndmonster

[7+6=13]

Rumor: "Leafs have a plan to give Stamkos a $3.5M marketing contract... vetted by the league and the lawyers... not in the player contract."

 

reddit

 

Bob McCown podcast. June 28th 4pm hour @ 7 minutes 29 seconds

 

 

 

 

It's either ###### or IT REALLY IS ######.

 

Looks like he'd only gain 1.5 million by doing that vs NY taxes.  He'd have to work is arse off - off the ice just to get what he could easier in the U.S.

[Brawndo]

Rumor: "Leafs have a plan to give Stamkos a $3.5M marketing contract... vetted by the league and the lawyers... not in the player contract."

 

reddit

 

Bob McCown podcast. June 28th 4pm hour @ 7 minutes 29 seconds

 

 

It's either ###### or IT REALLY IS ######.

This was discussed on GR this AM. Any team has the ability to do this.

[tom webster]

This was discussed on GR this AM. Any team has the ability to do this.

I'm pretty sure any guarantee would violate the CBA. Otherwise every team with deep pockets would make similar offers. What would stop Sabres from saying we will give you $5 per year salary and Pegula Sports and Entertainment will give you $20M per year to be our official spokesman?

[nfreeman]

It sounds like BS to me.

[ddaryl]

That would circumvent the whole point of the salary cap. Teams from Big markets would have an advantage and salary cap is now useless again.

 

I don't believe that any team can do that.

[LGR4GM]

I have thought a lot about Stamkos since the draft. If I can sign him to a 5 year deal at 10.5million, I am in. I might even go 11million x 5years. I think my biggest issue is that I don't believe Stamkos will be producing to match that contract in years 6 and 7 as compared to today and I want to minimize that risk. Once Stamkos' scoring really starts to drop off, his effectiveness really starts to go away. Unlike ROR he doesn't have an elite defensive game to fall back into. Stamkos at 10.5 for 5 years is my final thought. It would be interesting to see a team with that much forward depth.

 

ROR - Stamkos - Kane?

Ennis/Vesey - Eichel - Reinhart

Foligno - Larsson - Gionta

 

... I am quickly realizing if we signed both Vesey and Stamkos, we would need to trade or just have a super deep forth line. This could make the expansion draft much better for us. We could expose someone like Zemgus or Foligno or insert other younger player here and that way a team would more likely target our forwards over the defense. 

[CallawaySabres]

1) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

 

2) no way in hell he takes a deal under 7 years

 

3) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

[Brawndo]

I agree it's probably BS and against the CBA. Somebody sent the same link to Jeremy White and he mentioned all teams can do it. He mentioned the Sabres Gold Ring Partners as an example. Then again he also mentioned that Tampa still has the right to sign Stamkos to a 8 year deal after July 1st, which is false.

[ddaryl]

1) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

 

2) no way in hell he takes a deal under 7 years

 

3) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

 

 

 

And the negative nancy shows their face.

 

BOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

Love the defeatist attitude that beat down perennial loser Buffalo fans have embraced fully

[Rasmus_]

1) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

 

2) no way in hell he takes a deal under 7 years

 

3) No way in hell Stamkos is putting serious thought into Buffalo

 

And here's the Sabres attitude that is still sitting in the pre-Reinhart closet.  Really Callaway?  LOL, I'm sure Stamkos is considering any team willing to offer him north of 10+ per season. If he wants to go elsewhere for 11-13M, I truly won't be phased. 

[LGR4GM]

If we sign Stamkos, who is Captain next year? I say ROR is still the leader of this team.

[CallawaySabres]

And here's the Sabres attitude that is still sitting in the pre-Reinhart closet. Really Callaway? LOL, I'm sure Stamkos is considering any team willing to offer him north of 10+ per season. If he wants to go elsewhere for 11-13M, I truly won't be phased.

It's not negative, it's just that I honestly don't think Buffalo has a chance over Toronto and the opportunity to play there. They have the hometown, coaching, a potential superstar they just drafted and will bid at least as much as Buffalo. Look no further than LeBron back to Cleveland