MattPie Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I agree that his hockey IQ is good enough for the NHL at present. However, he's not strong enough yet. He'll develop that strength on the puck getting 18-20 min in Roch vs 7-8 min in Buf. I am inclined to disagree, the AHL level I don't think helps this improvement, practice and 8-10 min or whatever gets him there at this level. Again neither of us are coaches at this level. This sums it up to me. None of us (likely) are NHL coaches, so to say this should happen or that should happen is presumptuous. In a case like this where both ideas seem like good ones, you just have to trust that the folks making the decisions make the right call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Isn't it wonderful that the answer isn't obvious? Yes it is, especially after a win B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It's gotta be better for him to have the playing time in Rochester. He will get 20 mins a game and power play time. I hate watching such a talented player get lost in a role he has no business playing. He's not a third line guy, he needs experience. He can get that in Rochester, and get called up if a top six guy goes out. Did playing 4th line minutes ruin Tyler Seguin? He IS getting experience; it's simply in a limited role. IMHO, right now it is better for him to be getting 10 minutes / game playing at an NHL pace & against guys that have both NHL size & speed. Will that still be the right answer in November &/or December - no data, but my suspiscion is it will. But if it makes sense to send him down then (aka, he's 13 or 14 on the healthy depth chart) no doubt he goes down. He won't spend weeks in the pressbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Did playing 4th line minutes ruin Tyler Seguin? He IS getting experience; it's simply in a limited role. IMHO, right now it is better for him to be getting 10 minutes / game playing at an NHL pace & against guys that have both NHL size & speed. Will that still be the right answer in November &/or December - no data, but my suspiscion is it will. But if it makes sense to send him down then (aka, he's 13 or 14 on the healthy depth chart) no doubt he goes down. He won't spend weeks in the pressbox. Tampa sheltered Jonathan Drouin last year with limited minutes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 If he's playing 7-8 minutes he should go down. Right now he has played 10 to 12. Gionta coming back will affect that. I am glad the debate has been about what's best for Sam, rather than Sam is in over his head, because, so far, he is not in over his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't know the answer to this question, good thing we have coaches and whatnot. :) Neither do I. I'm just offering an alternate idea on the worth of sending him down for seasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Neither do I. I'm just offering an alternate idea on the worth of sending him down for seasoning. will he bring back some cajun seasoning, or just some herbs and spices? ;) :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 will he bring back some cajun seasoning, or just some herbs and spices? ;) :P If he's as creative as we've been led to believe, hell bring back his own spices and make his own cajun seasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) If he's playing 7-8 minutes he should go down. Right now he has played 10 to 12. Gionta coming back will affect that. I am glad the debate has been about what's best for Sam, rather than Sam is in over his head, because, so far, he is not in over his head. It's what's best for Sam, he's not going to be the reason they do/do not make the playoffs this year or maybe next year also. His development is crucial to the future success of the franchise. Strength, confidence and leadership need developed. I don't want it determined by a GM that needs success now to keep a job, which means that Sam should get what's best for Sam as opposed to the previous regime. If he stays I truly believe that is what coach/gm believe best, and conversely if he goes to the A. I won't be up set either way. I believe Sam is just as needed for a cup run as Jack. What ever is best is what I want. Edited October 15, 2015 by Woods-Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 If he's playing 7-8 minutes he should go down. Right now he has played 10 to 12. Gionta coming back will affect that. I am glad the debate has been about what's best for Sam, rather than Sam is in over his head, because, so far, he is not in over his head. I agree with you that if he's getting 12 minutes and up he stays here. If he's getting less or sitting in the press box, he needs to go down and PLAY. I don't think the only thing he needs to work on is power and strength. Whatever the coaching staff decides is what he'll be asked to do in Rochester. Every guy is different, you can't make up some scenario because J.Drouin did it. Who cares what he did, the team needs to make a decision on what is best for the development of Sam. If that means he goes down until he's ready to play 15+ minutes a game. That's what they should do. Anybody who's been involved in competitive sports knows that people develop at different rates. Because one guy is physically ready at a certain age doesn't mean everyone should be on that same course. Just because you're at one level of development doesn't mean 3-6 months later you're not at another either up or down for that matter. Just because he's not the best player on the team right now doesn't necessarily mean he won't be 18 months from now (wouldn't that be sweet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I agree with you that if he's getting 12 minutes and up he stays here. If he's getting less or sitting in the press box, he needs to go down and PLAY. I don't think the only thing he needs to work on is power and strength. Whatever the coaching staff decides is what he'll be asked to do in Rochester. Every guy is different, you can't make up some scenario because J.Drouin did it. Who cares what he did, the team needs to make a decision on what is best for the development of Sam. If that means he goes down until he's ready to play 15+ minutes a game. That's what they should do. Anybody who's been involved in competitive sports knows that people develop at different rates. Because one guy is physically ready at a certain age doesn't mean everyone should be on that same course. Just because you're at one level of development doesn't mean 3-6 months later you're not at another either up or down for that matter. Just because he's not the best player on the team right now doesn't necessarily mean he won't be 18 months from now (wouldn't that be sweet). But that's not what he is saying though. He's saying that if he is playing 7 or 8 he should be sent down, and I agree. But I don't think that is their current plan, and I don't think he has to be at that 12 minute average to warrant staying. At say, 10 minutes for example, I would still want him here. As others have said, he'll develop quicker by playing the NHL game. He has been respectable out there, I like how his game is coming along. He is adding to the team right now, not taking away from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckinFL Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think it's good he's still up with the big club. He's sweating, busting butt and travelling with a group of guys he'll be playing with for years. Build that chemistry by travelling and fighting through the tough battles that this season is going to present. He's not taking away from the team right now at all. Build that companionship and that cohesiveness that only suffering a struggling together can bring. The talent on this team that's been assembled is absolutely incredible. This is going to be the toughest year for them for the next 5-6 years. The more cohesive of a unit the core forms, the more they trust each other and know what each other is thinking, the better. I think that's the best thing for Samson right now. Not the TOI, but him growing as a man, bleeding, and fighting with the group of guys that day in and day out have his back on and off the ice, that's what's important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think it's good he's still up with the big club. He's sweating, busting butt and travelling with a group of guys he'll be playing with for years. Build that chemistry by travelling and fighting through the tough battles that this season is going to present. He's not taking away from the team right now at all. Build that companionship and that cohesiveness that only suffering a struggling together can bring. The talent on this team that's been assembled is absolutely incredible. This is going to be the toughest year for them for the next 5-6 years. The more cohesive of a unit the core forms, the more they trust each other and know what each other is thinking, the better. I think that's the best thing for Samson right now. Not the TOI, but him growing as a man, bleeding, and fighting with the group of guys that day in and day out have his back on and off the ice, that's what's important. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think it's good he's still up with the big club. He's sweating, busting butt and travelling with a group of guys he'll be playing with for years. Build that chemistry by travelling and fighting through the tough battles that this season is going to present. He's not taking away from the team right now at all. Build that companionship and that cohesiveness that only suffering a struggling together can bring. The talent on this team that's been assembled is absolutely incredible. This is going to be the toughest year for them for the next 5-6 years. The more cohesive of a unit the core forms, the more they trust each other and know what each other is thinking, the better. I think that's the best thing for Samson right now. Not the TOI, but him growing as a man, bleeding, and fighting with the group of guys that day in and day out have his back on and off the ice, that's what's important. Well said, I'm in agreement with this view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well said, I'm in agreement with this view This view is my view too. Build that companionship and that cohesiveness that only suffering a struggling together can bring. A very important point. If suffering builds character, the last few years should have built incredible chemistry. But it isn't just the suffering. It's working through a problem when you actually have the tools to build the solution. The Sabres finally have those tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 If he's playing 7-8 minutes he should go down. Right now he has played 10 to 12. Gionta coming back will affect that. I am glad the debate has been about what's best for Sam, rather than Sam is in over his head, because, so far, he is not in over his head. I'd like to feel this way but unfortunately I'm not there yet. I'm not seeing an effective NHL player. Reinhart doesn't look as completely lost and useless as Grigorenko looked at this stage, but he also doesn't look ready. Would anyone here not prefer that Florida had let Ekblad fall to the Sabres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think it's good he's still up with the big club. He's sweating, busting butt and travelling with a group of guys he'll be playing with for years. Build that chemistry by travelling and fighting through the tough battles that this season is going to present. He's not taking away from the team right now at all. Build that companionship and that cohesiveness that only suffering a struggling together can bring. The talent on this team that's been assembled is absolutely incredible. This is going to be the toughest year for them for the next 5-6 years. The more cohesive of a unit the core forms, the more they trust each other and know what each other is thinking, the better. I think that's the best thing for Samson right now. Not the TOI, but him growing as a man, bleeding, and fighting with the group of guys that day in and day out have his back on and off the ice, that's what's important. Overcoming hardships together builds bonds. I think Reinhart is bonding with the vets and with the younger guys because all I hear from anyone is how mature and hard working he is. I think Reinhart is going to have an up and down year but being in Buffalo is best for him I'd like to feel this way but unfortunately I'm not there yet. I'm not seeing an effective NHL player. Reinhart doesn't look as completely lost and useless as Grigorenko looked at this stage, but he also doesn't look ready. Would anyone here not prefer that Florida had let Ekblad fall to the Sabres? Actually I think that is a very interesting question. My initial answer would be no. At the time of the Reinhart draft we had Ennis and Zemgus as our centers. Reinhart gave us a legitimate #1 center prospect. He has thus far developed almost exactly how we should have expected. Now in hindsight you could argue that yes, we would be served better have Ekblad as a defender over Reinhart. However, I would argue that we are simply talking about a known quantity in Ekblad over the unknown potential of Reinhart. Ekblad is a very good defender and I love his game. Reinhart's game has not fully manifested yet. We are seeing flashes more and more. The flashes that I see make me very excited. There is something about Reinhart's game that when it finally matures will be underrated yet so vital to this team. Would I prefer it in hindsight? No. However I could not fault anyone who does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'd like to feel this way but unfortunately I'm not there yet. I'm not seeing an effective NHL player. Reinhart doesn't look as completely lost and useless as Grigorenko looked at this stage, but he also doesn't look ready. Would anyone here not prefer that Florida had let Ekblad fall to the Sabres? If Ekblad falls to the Sabres, the Sabres need to win the lottery to get McEichel. Even if Sam crashes & burns - he wasn't the prize. Eichel is. Sam fit the need at the time better than Ekblad. Now, if the question were phrased 'would you trade Reinhart for Ekblad today?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I'd like to feel this way but unfortunately I'm not there yet. I'm not seeing an effective NHL player. Reinhart doesn't look as completely lost and useless as Grigorenko looked at this stage, but he also doesn't look ready. Would anyone here not prefer that Florida had let Ekblad fall to the Sabres? Tim Murray would not have. Be interesting to see if he's changed his mind, or if he always regarded Reinhart as a better long-term investment. Clearly, no one would say he is the better player right now. Tonight, I think Reinhart sits. Edited October 15, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Tim Murray would not have. Be interesting to see if he's changed his mind, or if he always regarded Reinhart as a better long-term investment. Clearly, no one would say he is the better player right now. Tonight, I think Reinhart sits. Hmmmmmm. I seem to remember a fair amount of scuttlebutt going into the 2014 draft to the effect that the Sabres would take Ekblad if he fell to them. Or was that what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hmmmmmm. I seem to remember a fair amount of scuttlebutt going into the 2014 draft to the effect that the Sabres would take Ekblad if he fell to them. Or was that what you meant? I think they would have because I think Murray liked Reinhart and Ekblad. We have to follow this out to it's logical conclusion. If we get Ekblad, does his NHL ready presence help us get an extra 4 points there by making us the Coyotes and dropping us, meaning we don't get Eichel. We could be sitting here with Ekblad and Marner/Strome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think they would have because I think Murray liked Reinhart and Ekblad. We have to follow this out to it's logical conclusion. If we get Ekblad, does his NHL ready presence help us get an extra 4 points there by making us the Coyotes and dropping us, meaning we don't get Eichel. We could be sitting here with Ekblad and Marner/Strome No way to know for sure, but I don't think rookie Ekblad is worth 4 points with what we iced last year. That said, I wouldn't want to go back in a 1-way time machine to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 No way to know for sure, but I don't think rookie Ekblad is worth 4 points with what we iced last year. That said, I wouldn't want to go back in a 1-way time machine to find out. In our last 10 games we won two 1 goal games and lost three 1 goal games including an OT decision to Phoenix. The Coyotes finished with only 2 more points than us. So in theory if we beat the Yotes in regulation and don't collapse against Chicago in the 3rd we would have lost the shart. I am saying the lottery plays out the same. I think Ekblad might have been just enough talent on the back end to give us those victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 In our last 10 games we won two 1 goal games and lost three 1 goal games including an OT decision to Phoenix. The Coyotes finished with only 2 more points than us. So in theory if we beat the Yotes in regulation and don't collapse against Chicago in the 3rd we would have lost the shart. I am saying the lottery plays out the same. I think Ekblad might have been just enough talent on the back end to give us those victories. UNLESS..... Ekblad was salted away in Rochester (or juniors or whatever). If GMTM really was intentionally tanking, Ekblad wouldn't have prevented it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 UNLESS..... Ekblad was salted away in Rochester (or juniors or whatever). If GMTM really was intentionally tanking, Ekblad wouldn't have prevented it. What if he won us 1 more game during his 9 game trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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