Trade ideas and speculation

[Robviously]

He could still take faceoffs as a wing.

 

He's been phenomenal at center.  I would rather not see him move.

 

pfffft.  Sez you.  First.   :cry:

Eh. You made the better point.  ROR has been awesome for us at center and he and Eichel are a great 1-2 punch.  I wouldn't move him either.

[Hoss]

Interesting comparables, but not quite analogous. Drouin is fresher and was a higher pick. I think the roster player coming back for him -- as indicated by your proposal -- has to be better than Rundblad or Clutterbuck..

Drouin went with the same pick as Niederreiter and two above Turris. Hardly a "higher pick." (I may have those two backwards). But I agree with the rest. They're certainly comparable but I don't think either of those players are as valuable as Drouin is currently. The deals their teams got are probably good starting points to go up from.

[thewookie1]

It's been a while since you uncorked one of these.  Strangely refreshing.

 

 

In a good way or a bad way?

 

Drouin doesn't fit GMTM's model thus why I won't give much more than my previous proposal. Anyone know Drouin's character? 

[Robviously]

I think you're right about Zemgus or Pysyk, but I can see them being interested in Ennis, who is a fairly proven commodity as a top-6 NHL forward who can score and has speed and sandpaper in his game.

 

The Zemgus/Pysyk idea is kinda interesting.  Drouin put up a ton of points in the Q, was drafted high, got sent back to juniors in his first season post-draft, played 70 games in the NHL in his 2nd season post-draft, putting up respectable numbers, and is now in the doghouse in his 3rd season post-draft.  His ceiling is more or less unknown.

 

OTOH, Pysyk's ceiling is probably solid 2nd-pairing D, and Zemgus' ceiling is probably solid #3 center.  Both of those are valuable assets to an NHL team, but not as precious as a 70+-point LW, which is what Drouin MIGHT develop into.  Would GMTM be interested in trading known assets for unknown potential?

 

I tend to guess that he wouldn't in this case, because Drouin doesn't play the "heavy" game that GMTM likes.

The same reason I wouldn't, but I also really like what 28 and 3 bring.  I'm really interested in what Girgensons can do with Eichel as the early returns have been good.  I also like him as a Top 6 forward role if he's the grinder to compliment the skill guys.  He's been disappointing this season but I also think he seems like a guy built for the playoffs.  Pysyk might be the best passer on the team and we're weak on defense now.  He and Risto are the two guys I could see really helping both as reliable defenders *and* guys that can jumpstart our offense. 

In a good way or a bad way?

 

Drouin doesn't fit GMTM's model thus why I won't give much more than my previous proposal. Anyone know Drouin's character? 

Not really, but him requesting a trade at 20 years old isn't helping.

[nfreeman]

The same reason I wouldn't, but I also really like what 28 and 3 bring.  I'm really interested in what Girgensons can do with Eichel as the early returns have been good.  I also like him as a Top 6 forward role if he's the grinder to compliment the skill guys.  He's been disappointing this season but I also think he seems like a guy built for the playoffs.  Pysyk might be the best passer on the team and we're weak on defense now.  He and Risto are the two guys I could see really helping both as reliable defenders *and* guys that can jumpstart our offense. 

 

 

Yes -- I think both guys have played their best games of the season over the past week or so.

[clintwestwood]

So, what move are you making to put him at C? Does he or O'Reilly drop to line 3? Does O'Reilly move to W? Does Eichel move to W? Do one of the 3 get traded?

The thought of any of the 3 getting traded makes me physically ill :sick:

[Taro T]

I could see ROR playing wing in a year or 2.  We drafted him to play center.

 

In a couple of years, perhaps, though it's difficult to see a scenario where that is the right play even 2 years from now. Don't see it happening next season under any plausible scenario.

 

O'Reilly is sooooo solid in his own zone, don't want him playing on wing. He needs to be in the action & active on the back check. Can't see a scenario where Reinhart's better than Eichel in the middle either. Which either puts him on the 3rd line if he 'needs' to play C, or staying most likely on O'Reilly's wing & possibly on Eichel's wing. Seems a waste having him on the 3rd line - especially when he seems to have chemistry where he is. Having 3 'top line' C's is a luxury few teams have. Nice to have this 'problem' after so many years wandering the desert. ;)

The thought of any of the 3 getting traded makes me physically ill :sick:

No doubt, but if Reinhart 'needs' to be C on 1 of the top 2 lines, something has to give. My vote is for - that's not quite as necessary as some might believe. ;)

[Patty16]

The same reason I wouldn't, but I also really like what 28 and 3 bring.  I'm really interested in what Girgensons can do with Eichel as the early returns have been good.  I also like him as a Top 6 forward role if he's the grinder to compliment the skill guys.  He's been disappointing this season but I also think he seems like a guy built for the playoffs.  Pysyk might be the best passer on the team and we're weak on defense now.  He and Risto are the two guys I could see really helping both as reliable defenders *and* guys that can jumpstart our offense. 

Not really, but him requesting a trade at 20 years old isn't helping.

 

 

really not hurting him either, yet.  He needs to show up in cuse and play. lots of young kids have requested trades and sometimes its for the best.  There's more stuff being said about cooper not getting along with players, and many are saying that why Stammer hasnt re-signed yet. 

[3putt]

In a couple of years, perhaps, though it's difficult to see a scenario where that is the right play even 2 years from now. Don't see it happening next season under any plausible scenario.

 

O'Reilly is sooooo solid in his own zone, don't want him playing on wing. He needs to be in the action & active on the back check. Can't see a scenario where Reinhart's better than Eichel in the middle either. Which either puts him on the 3rd line if he 'needs' to play C, or staying most likely on O'Reilly's wing & possibly on Eichel's wing. Seems a waste having him on the 3rd line - especially when he seems to have chemistry where he is. Having 3 'top line' C's is a luxury few teams have. Nice to have this 'problem' after so many years wandering the desert. ;)

 

No doubt, but if Reinhart 'needs' to be C on 1 of the top 2 lines, something has to give. My vote is for - that's not quite as necessary as some might believe. ;)

He is more valuable as a center either here or somewhere else.  If he is not in that role here I think he will be moved for the coveted #2 D-man.  GMTM stated on draft day that he is a center who makes the people on his wing better.  I do not see GMTM deviating from that view.  A 3C maybe to start, who knows but I think plays C next year. 

[Taro T]

He is more valuable as a center either here or somewhere else.  If he is not in that role here I think he will be moved for the coveted #2 D-man.  GMTM stated on draft day that he is a center who makes the people on his wing better.  I do not see GMTM deviating from that view.  A 3C maybe to start, who knows but I think plays C next year.

 

We shall see.

 

I don't see how you can hold TM's comments made a full year prior to him getting 2 seemingly better C's as an indication that he will necessarily be a C on this team next season. The way O'Reilly is playing, it is very difficult to believe that the team will be better off w/ him at wing. Ditto on Eichel.

 

Reinhart IS one of their top offensive players. Dropping him to the 3rd line so a weaker offensive threat can slide into that role seems silly to me; especially when O'Reilly brings so much into the role @ both ends of the ice.

 

I truly doubt your scenario plays out on a day in - day out basis unless there is an injury to 1 of the top 2 C's. Though he MAY be better as a top 2 C than as a W next season (not willing to concede that at present, though it is possible), it is hard to believe his personal value would be greater to the Sabres than the decrease in value of having C1 or C2 moved to W or C3.

 

AND he is NOT getting traded until (@ the earliest) he is approaching UFA. I fully expect that the plan right now is to keep a core of E-R-R-R; & if that is the case, they'll find a way to keep all 3 C's for the long haul - even though only 2 get used at C the next 2 years & then when O'Reilly loses a step he slides into either 3rd line C or top 2 line W.

 

If he does go in the next year or so (which would be almost shocking), it had better be OEL (or equivalent) coming back. (Regardless of how ancillary pieces shift to make something like that equitable from both GM's viewpoints. He's on his 1st year of his EL deal. That is a steal from a SC perspective & it's hard to see the Sabres cutting him loose for anything short of an OEL.

[K-9]

Phuck Druin and his agent. Sorry, son, you don't get to make demands on NHL teams just because your ego won't allow you to pay some dues in the AHL first. I would stay far away from this kid with that kind of attitude. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[3putt]

We shall see.

 

I don't see how you can hold TM's comments made a full year prior to him getting 2 seemingly better C's as an indication that he will necessarily be a C on this team next season. The way O'Reilly is playing, it is very difficult to believe that the team will be better off w/ him at wing. Ditto on Eichel.

 

Reinhart IS one of their top offensive players. Dropping him to the 3rd line so a weaker offensive threat can slide into that role seems silly to me; especially when O'Reilly brings so much into the role @ both ends of the ice.

 

I truly doubt your scenario plays out on a day in - day out basis unless there is an injury to 1 of the top 2 C's. Though he MAY be better as a top 2 C than as a W next season (not willing to concede that at present, though it is possible), it is hard to believe his personal value would be greater to the Sabres than the decrease in value of having C1 or C2 moved to W or C3.

 

AND he is NOT getting traded until (@ the earliest) he is approaching UFA. I fully expect that the plan right now is to keep a core of E-R-R-R; & if that is the case, they'll find a way to keep all 3 C's for the long haul - even though only 2 get used at C the next 2 years & then when O'Reilly loses a step he slides into either 3rd line C or top 2 line W.

 

If he does go in the next year or so (which would be almost shocking), it had better be OEL (or equivalent) coming back. (Regardless of how ancillary pieces shift to make something like that equitable from both GM's viewpoints. He's on his 1st year of his EL deal. That is a steal from a SC perspective & it's hard to see the Sabres cutting him loose for anything short of an OEL.

He said it this fall as well.  At the 2015 draft TM had Sam, knew he was getting Eichel and traded for ROR.  He reiterated the comments before camp.  To paraphrase The Hunt For eed October, GMTM doesn't take a dump without a plan.  I can see a line up where the number is not all that meaningful, but Reinhart is at center.  The rest of the plan is to get better wingers via trade, fa and the draft.  But as you point out time will tell.

[Huckleberry]

Don't think Anyone should be traded , if we truly want to compete we roll out 3 lines like in 2005.  

Gus is meshing with Eichel they just need a scoring winger.  

 

1C O'reilly - we need more Quality wingers really :D

2C Eichel - Gus - Ennis

3C Reinhart - Kane - McGinn

4C larsson - Deslaurier - foligno

 

I would probably trade Evander Kane for a #2 D the moment he starts to look good though.   His shot and Hockey IQ are off to much to be a solid top 6 winger.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Huckleberry

[Iron Crotch]

Trade Kane, move O'Reilly to wing... what is going on in this thread?  :D

 

From my perspective I don't see any major issues with our forwards at the moment that would warrant an expensive and potentially risky trade for a guy like Drouin. I like the young core group. They just need time to grow with each other. It'll take a while IMHO.

 

If we're going to make a bold move, personally I'd rather see us target a two-way left-shot defenseman.

[dudacek]

I feel Sam's true talent lies in being a center. While showing improvement at wing, I think he will be more productive at center. He is not a pure scorer for a top line wing. JMHO.

I'm glad to know I am not alone on this.

 

Sam Reinhart will never be an elite winger. He has neither the speed, the size, nor the shot.

He can, and in my opinion will, be an elite centre - a better centre than ROR. He has the hands and the mind. I see Ron Francis or Adam Oates.

 

I don't want to move Jack to wing, but the Sabres would be better off long-term moving him there than moving Sam because Jack will be elite at any position.

 

The answer is what it was going to be before we saw what a great centre ROR was: ROR moves to wing as soon as Jack and Sam no longer need protection. ROR is an excellent winger and we can still use him for key draws.

 

A first line built around Eichel and O'Reilly backed by a Kane Reinhart combo is the future of our top six, IMO.

 

It's a nice problem to have, but making Sam a permanent winger would be the worst option long-term. That said, it's not a bad option.

 

*****

Drouin? I'm telling you, Xavier Laflamme.

Edited January 5, 2016 by dudacek

[Thorny]

If we're trading for Drouin it's to play him in the NHL... Otherwise you're damaging the relationship from the start. Him being in the AHL is the reason we're here.

32 points in 70 games isn't a terrible rookie season. Should be scoring more goals, but we say his primary points numbers and they're up there for the little ice time he got.

 

Not only was that not a terrible rookie season, it was a pretty good one.

 

Trade Kane, move O'Reilly to wing... what is going on in this thread?  :D

 

From my perspective I don't see any major issues with our forwards at the moment that would warrant an expensive and potentially risky trade for a guy like Drouin. I like the young core group. They just need time to grow with each other. It'll take a while IMHO.

 

If we're going to make a bold move, personally I'd rather see us target a two-way left-shot defenseman.

 

Obviously it would depend on what we would have to give up, but I like the idea of exploring a trade for Drouin, If we could get him for a guy like Ennis, I make the trade. The only potential issue I see with our forwards is on the wings, I really believe Drouin can and will develop into a really good winger, his potential is still very, very high. This is how you get top players without drafting them. It may be a bit of a risk, but when these guys become available, I believe you take that chance. See: Tyler Seguin.

 

As for the Reinhart C-or-RW talk, I fall more in line with dudacek's thoughts on the whole, and that mainly speaks to my feeling that I think Reinhart is going to be very, very good. Better than O'Reilly good. But then if that were to be the case, it remains congruent with Taro's thoughts O'Reilly could eventually shift to wing. On a short term basis I agree with Taro's thoughts on the matter. I would phrase it in such a way as to say that currently we want our 1-2 Cs to be O'Reilly and Eichel, and that the optimal, best case scenario is that Reinhart becomes so good that it in a way necessitates a move for Sam to C and ROR to wing. That is the long term, ideal scenario playing out. If Reinhart stays at wing, he's going to be good there, too.

 

It really is summed up best by saying, "it's a good problem to have".

[LGR4GM]

ROR is about to be 25years old.  So you figure you can give him 2 more seasons at C teaching Reinhart. At that point he will be about to turn 27 and Reinhart will be 22.  You can start moving ROR to wing and Reinhart into the center position.  This is only if Reinhart progresses and gets much better under ROR tutelage.  ROR will be a bit older and is a perfect player to dig pucks out of the corner. Reinhart will have adjusted to the NHL game and is the perfect player to dish ROR and mystery winger the puck.

[3putt]

I'm glad to know I am not alone on this.

 

Sam Reinhart will never be an elite winger. He has neither the speed, the size, nor the shot.

He can, and in my opinion will, be an elite centre - a better centre than ROR. He has the hands and the mind. I see Ron Francis or Adam Oates.

 

I don't want to move Jack to wing, but the Sabres would be better off long-term moving him there than moving Sam because Jack will be elite at any position.

 

The answer is what it was going to be before we saw what a great centre ROR was: ROR moves to wing as soon as Jack and Sam no longer need protection. ROR is an excellent winger and we can still use him for key draws.

 

A first line built around Eichel and O'Reilly backed by a Kane Reinhart combo is the future of our top six, IMO.

 

It's a nice problem to have, but making Sam a permanent winger would be the worst option long-term. That said, it's not a bad option.

 

*****

Drouin? I'm telling you, Xavier Laflamme.

Sold.  Do you take Diners Club?

[Weave]

I'm glad to know I am not alone on this.

 

Sam Reinhart will never be an elite winger. He has neither the speed, the size, nor the shot.

He can, and in my opinion will, be an elite centre - a better centre than ROR. He has the hands and the mind. I see Ron Francis or Adam Oates.

 

I don't want to move Jack to wing, but the Sabres would be better off long-term moving him there than moving Sam because Jack will be elite at any position.

 

The answer is what it was going to be before we saw what a great centre ROR was: ROR moves to wing as soon as Jack and Sam no longer need protection. ROR is an excellent winger and we can still use him for key draws.

 

A first line built around Eichel and O'Reilly backed by a Kane Reinhart combo is the future of our top six, IMO.

 

It's a nice problem to have, but making Sam a permanent winger would be the worst option long-term. That said, it's not a bad option.

 

*****

Drouin? I'm telling you, Xavier Laflamme.

 

Interesting.  I see Ron Francis in ROR already.  Samson has a ways to go before I'll say that about him.  I'm not moving Sam to center unless there is injury, and I'm only keeping him there if he proves better than Jack or ROR.  That's a heckuva a development if it happens.

[Taro T]

I'm glad to know I am not alone on this.

Sam Reinhart will never be an elite winger. He has neither the speed, the size, nor the shot.

He can, and in my opinion will, be an elite centre - a better centre than ROR. He has the hands and the mind. I see Ron Francis or Adam Oates.

I don't want to move Jack to wing, but the Sabres would be better off long-term moving him there than moving Sam because Jack will be elite at any position.

The answer is what it was going to be before we saw what a great centre ROR was: ROR moves to wing as soon as Jack and Sam no longer need protection. ROR is an excellent winger and we can still use him for key draws.

A first line built around Eichel and O'Reilly backed by a Kane Reinhart combo is the future of our top six, IMO.

It's a nice problem to have, but making Sam a permanent winger would be the worst option long-term. That said, it's not a bad option.

 

...

 

 

Who said he should permanently be a wing?

 

The discussion began w/ the proposal that Reinhart should be playing C on a fulltime basis next season. Based on the way O'Reilly & Eichel are playing there presently; I don't envision that happening barring injury. Due to the relative lack of speed & size, why give Reinhart the tougher D-zone play when O'Reilly is ideally suited to be there?

 

Once the play is out of the zone, the forward positions become very fluid & interchangeable. Reinhart shouldn't be the one camped in front of the net - that should be McGinn's job on the current 1st line. If Kane becomes that line's LW, let O'Reilly & the D dig the puck free and send it to Reinhart to carry it through & into the offensive zone. That should be, & often is, the current plan - though they have Sam dump it in far too often. (Notice that Eichel's line dumps & chases far less often lately.)

 

I'd expect Reinhart to be playing C on his next contract, but don't expect to see much of it on this one. Maybe 2 years from now, though I'd doubt it. Definitely don't see it next season.

[LGR4GM]

Just because the lack of size meme needs to die a painful death, Reinhart is 6'1" 190, Eichel is 6'2" 200 and ROR is 6' 209.  So what lack of size are we talking about?

[Weave]

Just because the lack of size meme needs to die a painful death, Reinhart is 6'1" 190, Eichel is 6'2" 200 and ROR is 6' 209.  So what lack of size are we talking about?

 

About 10-20 lbs apparently.   :P

[LGR4GM]

About 10-20 lbs apparently.   :P

Also what lack of speed?  Reinhart has been tons faster this season as opposed to last.

 

 

It's like we get one look at a guy and then those are his characteristics from here until eternity.

[Weave]

Also what lack of speed?  Reinhart has been tons faster this season as opposed to last.

 

 

It's like we get one look at a guy and then those are his characteristics from here until eternity.

 

Yeah, we all suffer that.

 

I will say, the 19 lb difference is probably significant.  10?  Maybe.

[Taro T]

Just because the lack of size meme needs to die a painful death, Reinhart is 6'1" 190, Eichel is 6'2" 200 and ROR is 6' 209.  So what lack of size are we talking about?

You notice how sometimes he gets thrown around pretty good? (Opening night was bad for that; he's been better but it still happens some.) And how he wins the board battles on the forecheck less often than he wins 'em? THAT lack of size. It's more of a gaining strength thing, but right now he is a strong boy. Probably by next season, he'll be a strong man but he isn't quite there yet.

 

He doesn't play small, the way the much bigger Kotalik played, but he does still get muscled off the puck more often than he will. He's barely 20. He'll get there. And his improvement in size from last year was noticeable on day 1 of training camp. He looked like a boy last year, now he fits in. But he is still developing his "hockey size."

 

And, if you can't see the difference in strength between Eichel & Reinhart (or O'Reilly & Reinhart for that matter) you're intentionally not looking.

Also what lack of speed?  Reinhart has been tons faster this season as opposed to last.

 

 

It's like we get one look at a guy and then those are his characteristics from here until eternity.

:rolleyes:

 

Watch his skating and compare it to O'Reilly or Eichel. THAT lack of speed. (Won't even suggest comparing him to Kane (Evander or Patrick) ;))

 

Don't compare him to last year's Reinhart or some beer leaguer. He is, not surprisingly, faster than those.