Trade ideas and speculation

[LGR4GM]

You notice how sometimes he gets thrown around pretty good? (Opening night was bad for that; he's been better but it still happens some.) And how he wins the board battles on the forecheck less often than he wins 'em? THAT lack of size. It's more of a gaining strength thing, but right now he is a strong boy. Probably by next season, he'll be a strong man but he isn't quite there yet.

 

He doesn't play small, the way the much bigger Kotalik played, but he does still get muscled off the puck more often than he will. He's barely 20. He'll get there. And his improvement in size from last year was noticeable on day 1 of training camp. He looked like a boy last year, now he fits in. But he is still developing his "hockey size."

 

And, if you can't see the difference in strength between Eichel & Reinhart (or O'Reilly & Reinhart for that matter) you're intentionally not looking.

 

Reinhart looks like Zemgus did his first season. Fell down a ton, got push around at times, and really needed to work on his balance and lower body strength.  He isn't to small, he simply not mature yet.  I think these are 2 entirely different concepts. One implies he is Tyler Ennis and the other implies he is still developing. 

 

As for that quip at the end, ROR is 24 and one of the hardest working players in hockey, Jack Eichel was at the tops of his draft class for his physical stature.  Do I see a difference, ya because I am not blind.  My issue is that many people still view Reinhart as some sort of leper even though his improvement this year alone has been astounding.

[Weave]

  My issue is that many people still view Reinhart as some sort of leper even though his improvement this year alone has been astounding.

 

 

??

 

Do these people post here?  

[Taro T]

Reinhart looks like Zemgus did his first season. Fell down a ton, got push around at times, and really needed to work on his balance and lower body strength.  He isn't to small, he simply not mature yet.  I think these are 2 entirely different concepts. One implies he is Tyler Ennis and the other implies he is still developing. 

 

As for that quip at the end, ROR is 24 and one of the hardest working players in hockey, Jack Eichel was at the tops of his draft class for his physical stature.  Do I see a difference, ya because I am not ###### blind.  My issue is that many people still view Reinhart as some sort of leper even though his improvement this year alone has been astounding.

MANY people? Point out 2? Bet you can't point out 1.

 

His improvement from last season HAS been outstanding. But that doesn't mean he should be supplanting the best 2 C's this team has had in 8 years. And to hold that belief (which, if you read what you write, is a belief YOU hold) does not mean that his play is being disrespected, and it definitely is not equivalent to treating him like a leper. Holy hyperbole Batman.

[LGR4GM]

MANY people? Point out 2? Bet you can't point out 1.

 

His improvement from last season HAS been outstanding. But that doesn't mean he should be supplanting the best 2 C's this team has had in 8 years. And to hold that belief (which, if you read what you write, is a belief YOU hold) does not mean that his play is being disrespected, and it definitely is not equivalent to treating him like a leper. Holy hyperbole Batman.

I said he could replace ROR in a couple years when ROR starts to age and Reinhart has matured. Seems logical to me. Don't think he should replace ROR anytime soon which is a direct reversal of how I felt this summer. 

 

 

I stand by my comment.  Rienhart is constantly criticized and scrutinized. He falls too much, he doesn't shoot good enough, he is weak along the boards, he isn't good enough in his own end etc... If that same level of scrutiny was applied to Jack Eichel, I wouldn't mention constantly all the good things Reinhart does. You yourself Taro have criticized me for my questioning of Eichel. Why is he different then Jack? Both are young and growing and I look at both with equal questions.

[dudacek]

 

I stand by my comment.  Rienhart is constantly criticized and scrutinized. He falls too much, he doesn't shoot good enough, he is weak along the boards, he isn't good enough in his own end etc... If that same level of scrutiny was applied to Jack Eichel, I wouldn't mention constantly all the good things Reinhart does. You yourself Taro have criticized me for my questioning of Eichel. Why is he different then Jack? Both are young and growing and I look at both with equal questions.

 

With all due respect LGR,I think you would have to go back to October to find that kind of Reinhart criticism.

It may have been true in the past, but the board has come around.

Edited January 5, 2016 by dudacek

[Taro T]

I said he could replace ROR in a couple years when ROR starts to age and Reinhart has matured. Seems logical to me. Don't think he should replace ROR anytime soon which is a direct reversal of how I felt this summer.

 

 

I stand by my comment. Rienhart is constantly criticized and scrutinized. He falls too much, he doesn't shoot good enough, he is weak along the boards, he isn't good enough in his own end etc... If that same level of scrutiny was applied to Jack Eichel, I wouldn't mention constantly all the good things Reinhart does. You yourself Taro have criticized me for my questioning of Eichel. Why is he different then Jack? Both are young and growing and I look at both with equal questions.

You stand by your comment that people treat Reinhart like a "leper?" :w00t: But yet you can't produce a single example? Now that is TRULY hilarious.

 

NOBODY is "criticizing" Reinhart. A statement was made up-thread that Reinhart should be C next year. You yourself dont believe he should. Other than providing commentary on the relative merits of Reinhart & the 2 players he'd need to supplant to fill that role in the top 6, how do you suggest we frame the argument on behalf of keeping him on the wing on a top 2 line?

 

He IS small relative to O'Reilly & Eichel. (Note: before you come back w/ he's taller than O'Reilly, NOBODY has said he isn't.) He IS slow relative to O'Reilly & Eichel. All of that is factual. Eventually he may be as big as them (doubtful, but possible); barring injury, in ~4-5 years he will be quicker than O'Reilly, though due to their relative ages it is doubtful that he'll ever be quicker than Eichel barring injury.

 

He will be a better player as he continues to mature. NOBODY denies that.

 

And most of the 'picking on' Reinhart is response to YOUR questions/posts. People here, myself included, like Reinhart & expect him to be an integral piece of the LT core. Your insistences that he's treated like a "leper" around here do not make you look astute. ;)

 

Aside: Apologies to Nobody - didn't mean to call him out this much. ;) :lol:

Edited January 5, 2016 by Taro T

[Hoss]

Since when is 27 considered "aging?" That should be O'Reilly's prime. I don't see him moving to wing as a foregone conclusion any longer.

[dudacek]

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

Edited January 5, 2016 by dudacek

[Hoss]

I could see us running three lines once we've got a better group of wingers.

[TrueBlueGED]

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

While nothing precludes this conceptually, I think it's pretty obvious Bylsma prefers to deploy one line as a defensive stalwart. So under this scenario, somebody's offense is going to be neutered by player usage, which I think is less than ideal overall for this group.

[Taro T]

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

All three COULD down the line. Don't see it happening on a regular basis this season or next; which was the proposition which spawned this discussion. Don't see them having enough top 2 line talent to make that viable ST. Reinhart is arguably & likely the Sabres 4th best forward. I'd rather see him & the top F playing together rather than having him C'ing the 3rd line w/ players 8-10. (Not even taking into account that Larsson seems to sulk when not the 3rd C and he is effective at that role.)

[dudacek]

While nothing precludes this conceptually, I think it's pretty obvious Bylsma prefers to deploy one line as a defensive stalwart. So under this scenario, somebody's offense is going to be neutered by player usage, which I think is less than ideal overall for this group.

 

So it's another thing Bylsma is doing wrong? :ph34r:

[apuszczalowski]

I just don't know if Drouin would be a wise move for us.

 

There's still a lot of uncertainty with this team. The core of young talent seems very promising, but we need to acknowledge that nothing is certain when you're the second youngest team in the league. We used up a great deal of our assets in the ROR, Lehner and Kane trades, and I'm not sure GMTM would want to wager even more of our remaining assets (2016 picks, Fasching, whomever) on further uncertainly with Drouin.

 

I'd rather hold on to our remaining assets or trade for someone with maybe a lower ceiling but more consistency.

 

with a team this young I have no problem giving up prospects and picks for players. This team isn't need more future potential youth from picks or prospects if they can use it to speed up the process a little by getting a young player with Nhl experience and upside why not?

I just don't know if Drouin would be a wise move for us.

 

There's still a lot of uncertainty with this team. The core of young talent seems very promising, but we need to acknowledge that nothing is certain when you're the second youngest team in the league. We used up a great deal of our assets in the ROR, Lehner and Kane trades, and I'm not sure GMTM would want to wager even more of our remaining assets (2016 picks, Fasching, whomever) on further uncertainly with Drouin.

 

I'd rather hold on to our remaining assets or trade for someone with maybe a lower ceiling but more consistency.

 

with a team this young I have no problem giving up prospects and picks for players. This team isn't need more future potential youth from picks or prospects if they can use it to speed up the process a little by getting a young player with Nhl experience and upside why not?

Do you think mullets are cool? That's about as timely as your post.

lol, I seriously don't know what happened, I didn't see any of the previous posts about this when I posted, did they get merged from another topic?

[TrueBlueGED]

So it's another thing Bylsma is doing wrong? :ph34r:

Only if he does it with this group :)

 

I like the approach in general, just don't think it should be done for the sake of all three of our guys playing center. Larsson is perfect for that role.

[Weave]

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

 

If we ever get to a point where we have 5 solid wingers I would support this.  I don't see that day  coming tho.

So it's another thing Bylsma is doing wrong? :ph34r:

 

#Bylsmaisleperpost

[Marvelo]

Why can't the Sabres pick any scorer or just any player of any consequence in the lower rounds? They always have to go for the shiny #1 draft pick and lately it's been top 5. Mogilny was a 5th rounder. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder.

 

My guess is that's why we're no good...too many failed drafts outside the top 5 picks.

[clintwestwood]

Let's not speak about Brady or Mogilny as though they're the norm. Those are major exceptions. I'm not going to blame my team for not finding the Tom Brady of hockey in the 6th round.

Edited January 5, 2016 by clintwestwood

[Huckleberry]

Why can't the Sabres pick any scorer or just any player of any consequence in the lower rounds? They always have to go for the shiny #1 draft pick and lately it's been top 5. Mogilny was a 5th rounder. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder.

 

My guess is that's why we're no good...too many failed drafts outside the top 5 picks.

 

What the hell are you talking about? We have been drafting so well that untill last draft and trades we were rated to have the top prospect pool in the NHL.   Some of those are with the sabres now, what more do you want ?

Others netted us the likes of Kane, O'reilly , McGinn.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Huckleberry

[inkman]

Let's not speak about Brady or Mogilny as though they're the norm. Those are major exceptions. I'm not going to blame my team for not finding the Tom Brady of hockey in the 6th round.

You mean 70 goal scorers and hall of fame QBS are available in every round every year? :beer:

[LGR4GM]

You mean 70 goal scorers and hall of fame QBS are available in every round every year? :beer:

Even if we did draft that guy, we wouldn't know for a few more years.

[nfreeman]

Further to the what to do with Reinhart discussion, why can't all three play centre?

 

Seems to me the last time the Sabres were a contender we ran with three pretty balanced lines.

I don't remember exactly (maybe because Lindy juggled so much), but wasn't it something like

Hecht/Briere/Dumont as a sorta top line, Drury/Grier anchoring a defensively strong line that could score, and some mix of Kotalik, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov and Vanek as a "3rd" line that got a lot of mismatches?

Why not Jack as a better Briere, ROR as a better Drury and Sam as a better Roy?

 

Well, Jackie boy and ROR have a loooooooonnnnngg way to go before they can match Briere and Drury, and if Reino is ever mentioned in the same sentence as Roy again on this board, someone's going into the SabreSpace dungeon.

[Randall Flagg]

Well, Jackie boy and ROR have a loooooooonnnnngg way to go before they can match Briere and Drury, and if Reino is ever mentioned in the same sentence as Roy again on this board, someone's going into the SabreSpace dungeon.

Maybe I'm crazy, but the ROR I see out there this year matches the best of Drury that I can remember.

 

I could very well be crazy though.

[Huckleberry]

Well, Jackie boy and ROR have a loooooooonnnnngg way to go before they can match Briere and Drury, and if Reino is ever mentioned in the same sentence as Roy again on this board, someone's going into the SabreSpace dungeon.

 

Whats wrong with a better Roy ?  he did have a couple 60+ point seasons.   That makes you a #1 center nowadays :p

[dudacek]

Well, Jackie boy and ROR have a loooooooonnnnngg way to go before they can match Briere and Drury, and if Reino is ever mentioned in the same sentence as Roy again on this board, someone's going into the SabreSpace dungeon.

I am fully confident saying Jack will be better the briere.

ROR is better than Drury. No question in my mind.

 

That's all I have to say.

[clintwestwood]

I am fully confident saying Jack will be better the briere.

ROR is better than Drury. No question in my mind.

 

That's all I have to say.

I second this. I see flashes in Jack that will propel him to legitimate stud status already, and ROR is better at both ends of the ice than Drury. I'll take these two over those two 100/100 times. Briere never controlled the tempo of a game like Jack does already.