Buffalo Bills 2014

[shrader]

Orton is okay to have around as a backup. Not a starter. The sooner the Bills drop out of contention, the better, because then they can put EJ back in and let him develop. Give him some starter reps without too much pressure to win.

 

I think the whole Orton thing could actually be a big help to EJ in the long run. At this point, he's a long shot to make it in the NFL, but at least now he gets to sit back and watch an experience QB. Look what he had to watch last year when he was out injured, a pair of borderline practice squad QBs. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, so hopefully he picks something up from this. Getting the full 12 game look at a veterans game is his best case scenario at this point.

[Drunkard]

 

 

Orton is okay to have around as a backup. Not a starter. The sooner the Bills drop out of contention, the better, because then they can put EJ back in and let him develop. Give him some starter reps without too much pressure to win.

 

I don't think Manuel is ready to start. He was known as a project QB prior to being drafted and the reason he started last season was because Kolb lost a fight with a mat then got his brain scrambled in preseason. When Manuel was in he never seemed to go through any progressions. He went to his first read and if it wasn't there he dumped it off to a running back. He needs time to watch from the bench. If we bench Orton we are pretty much packing it in for the season and wasting this awesome defense another year.

[Hoss]

 

 

This is why I won't be unhappy if they finish 7-9. I don't think they're going to turn the corner and become a real team unless and until Brandon, Whaley and Marrone are gone.

 

Have felt the same. Was holding out hope that they'd make the playoffs and then still do it but you don't fire a bunch of guys after making the playoffs for the first time since Fred Flinstone was born.

 

Maybe they'll tell Marrone he has to fire Hackett, he refuses and they both go?

 

 

 

Orton is okay to have around as a backup. Not a starter. The sooner the Bills drop out of contention, the better, because then they can put EJ back in and let him develop. Give him some starter reps without too much pressure to win.

 

Not going to happen.

[wjag]

I'm clearly in a minority here. Yesterday the players lost that game, plain and simple.

 

I can count a half dozen instances:

 

1. Brown and the fumble.

2. Leodis and the fumble.

3. Orton going 0-6 and throwing a bunch of balls into the ground.

4. Hogan not running to the sticks on 3-18, but catching a ball 17 yards down field

5. The flinch on 4th and one.

6. Orton coming up short on four straight throws to end zone.

[Eleven]

I'm clearly in a minority here. Yesterday the players lost that game, plain and simple.

 

I can count a half dozen instances:

 

1. Brown and the fumble.

2. Leodis and the fumble.

3. Orton going 0-6 and throwing a bunch of balls into the ground.

4. Hogan not running to the sticks on 3-18, but catching a ball 17 yards down field

5. The flinch on 4th and one.

6. Orton coming up short on four straight throws to end zone.

 

5: was ordered by the coach per FJax this morning. Stupid.

 

6: the poor play is on Orton. The failure to recognize that he was flustered and that 3 points on 4th and 10 would be valuable, that's on Marrone.

 

And 2: Whoever is coaching McLovin on punt returns needs to tell him to stop trying to score on every return. He's now allowed the other team to take the lead at least twice. (That NE game is still in my head!) That's a coaching issue.

[Robviously]

5: was ordered by the coach per FJax this morning. Stupid.

 

6: the poor play is on Orton. The failure to recognize that he was flustered and that 3 points on 4th and 10 would be valuable, that's on Marrone.

 

And 2: Whoever is coaching McLovin on punt returns needs to tell him to stop trying to score on every return. He's now allowed the other team to take the lead at least twice. (That NE game is still in my head!) That's a coaching issue.

I actually Googled the first "McKelvin gives the game away" game this morning. September 2009 against New England. Over 5 years later and he's still as stupid as a bag of rocks.

 

The Bills history of first round picks in the last 15 years is a tragedy.

[Eleven]

I actually Googled the first "McKelvin gives the game away" game this morning. September 2009 against New England. Over 5 years later and he's still as stupid as a bag of rocks.

 

The Bills history of first round picks in the last 15 years is a tragedy.

 

Yeah, but they've hit on five of the last six. And for me the jury is still out on Manuel.

[nfreeman]

Have felt the same. Was holding out hope that they'd make the playoffs and then still do it but you don't fire a bunch of guys after making the playoffs for the first time since Fred Flinstone was born.

 

Maybe they'll tell Marrone he has to fire Hackett, he refuses and they both go?

 

For me it's more important to get rid of Whaley and Brandon than it is to get rid of Marrone.

[Hoss]

 

 

For me it's more important to get rid of Whaley and Brandon than it is to get rid of Marrone.

 

People keep saying that Brandon has been removed from the football side of things yet I keep hearing him talking about personnel and football stuff on WGR all the time. I don't want him even thinking about it.

[shrader]

The dumb punt returner award has to go with KC's guy in that game though. Two different times catching a punt at the one yard line? That's the guy who should have been the goat if we hadn't choked this one away.

[inkman]

I'm clearly in a minority here. Yesterday the players lost that game, plain and simple.

 

I can count a half dozen instances:

 

1. Brown and the fumble.

2. Leodis and the fumble.

3. Orton going 0-6 and throwing a bunch of balls into the ground.

4. Hogan not running to the sticks on 3-18, but catching a ball 17 yards down field

5. The flinch on 4th and one.

6. Orton coming up short on four straight throws to end zone.

I definitely thought the players blew it but I still think Marrone is a maroon.

[tom webster]

For me it's more important to get rid of Whaley and Brandon than it is to get rid of Marrone.

 

 

I don't understand this at all. The talent level improvement on this team is palpable since he took over. As for Brandon, he discusses football and personnel like any any other fan and continually defers to Whaley and/or Marrone when specific questions are asked.

[CallawaySabres]

If that game goes to 17-3 and the fumble never happens, no WAY they lose the game. Buffalo was the better team and 2 TERRIBLE fumbles are the only things that stand in the way of a pretty good path to the Wild Card. Go beat Miami and if you can't, then you are just not good enough this year.

 

Want to make up for the KC loss, go beat Green Bay, Denver or the Pats - go earn it for once in your miserable 14 year run of disgrace.

[Eleven]

If that game goes to 17-3 and the fumble never happens, no WAY they lose the game. Buffalo was the better team and 2 TERRIBLE fumbles are the only things that stand in the way of a pretty good path to the Wild Card. Go beat Miami and if you can't, then you are just not good enough this year.

 

Want to make up for the KC loss, go beat Green Bay, Denver or the Pats - go earn it for once in your miserable 14 year run of disgrace.

 

They're going to beat Green Bay.

[tom webster]

I don't know. In past games I would have said that, but I really didn't have a problem with the coaching yesterday. I have to believe that Manny Lawson didn't sleep very well last night. He bit so hard on that read option, once for the go ahead touchdown on fourth down, and another late in the game that would have given us the ball back. One word Manny, contain. There's the game right there.

 

 

That's Preston Brown's play and he owned up to it after the game. It was of the few commentaries that the TV broadcast got right yesterday, Lawson crashes and the linebacker is supposed to contain. Apparently there was a lot of confusion on the defense as well so a time out may have helped.

 

I do agree with you about the coaching though. Some of Marrone's decisions could be questioned but the game plan was fine. He is really no different then most NFL coaches. Usually the "geniuses" just have better quarterbacks.

Marrone didn't tell his 4th string running back to fumble and he didn't have his "safe" punt returner available yesterday and he most assuredly didn't tell his street free agent quarterback to miss a bunch of throws.

[nfreeman]

I don't understand this at all. The talent level improvement on this team is palpable since he took over. As for Brandon, he discusses football and personnel like any any other fan and continually defers to Whaley and/or Marrone when specific questions are asked.

 

Whaley became AGM in February 2010 and GM in May 2013. Since he became AGM, they've gone 4-12, 6-10, 6-10, 6-10 and whatever they finish this year.

 

Their draft picks in rounds 1-4 since he became AGM:

 

2010:

C.J. Spiller

Torell Troup

Alex Carrington

Marcus Easley

 

2011:

Marcell Dareus

Aaron Williams

Kelvin Sheppard

Da'Norris Searcy

Chris Hairston

 

2012:

Stephon Gilmore

Cordy Glenn

T.J. Graham

Nigel Bradham

Ron Brooks

 

2013:

EJ Manuel

Robert Woods

Kiko Alonso

Marquise Goodwin

Duke Williams

 

2014:

Sammy Watkins

Cyrus Kouandjio

Preston Brown

Ross Cockrell

 

What do we have here?

 

To me, it looks like since Whaley's been here, they've done reasonably well -- but not extremely well -- at drafting solid guys on D. Dareus may have turned the corner this year and become a reliable star-level player, but he's more or less where he should be as the #3 overall pick. None of the other guys on D he's drafted has become a star. And on offense, in 5 drafts, he's drafted one star (Watkins), a couple of good players (Glenn and Woods), Spiller, who at #9 overall gave them 1 good year out of 5 and is probably gone after this year, and one QB who's probably a washout in EJ.

 

Most importantly, he's utterly failed to address QB, which is by far the most important position. How in the world could they have gone into the season this year with EJ as the only plan, and then signed a street free agent 10 days before the season started? Real NFL teams aren't run this way.

 

Bottom line is that Whaley is responsible for delivering a winning team, and has failed to do so. He's been a big part of the last 5 years of suckitude. I want someone new.

[Randall Flagg]

Whaley became AGM in February 2010 and GM in May 2013. Since he became AGM, they've gone 4-12, 6-10, 6-10, 6-10 and whatever they finish this year.

 

Their draft picks in rounds 1-4 since he became AGM:

 

2010:

C.J. Spiller

Torell Troup

Alex Carrington

Marcus Easley

 

2011:

Marcell Dareus

Aaron Williams

Kelvin Sheppard

Da'Norris Searcy

Chris Hairston

 

2012:

Stephon Gilmore

Cordy Glenn

T.J. Graham

Nigel Bradham

Ron Brooks

 

2013:

EJ Manuel

Robert Woods

Kiko Alonso

Marquise Goodwin

Duke Williams

 

2014:

Sammy Watkins

Cyrus Kouandjio

Preston Brown

Ross Cockrell

 

What do we have here?

 

To me, it looks like since Whaley's been here, they've done reasonably well -- but not extremely well -- at drafting solid guys on D. Dareus may have turned the corner this year and become a reliable star-level player, but he's more or less where he should be as the #3 overall pick. None of the other guys on D he's drafted has become a star. And on offense, in 5 drafts, he's drafted one star (Watkins), a couple of good players (Glenn and Woods), Spiller, who at #9 overall gave them 1 good year out of 5 and is probably gone after this year, and one QB who's probably a washout in EJ.

 

Most importantly, he's utterly failed to address QB, which is by far the most important position. How in the world could they have gone into the season this year with EJ as the only plan, and then signed a street free agent 10 days before the season started? Real NFL teams aren't run this way.

 

Bottom line is that Whaley is responsible for delivering a winning team, and has failed to do so. He's been a big part of the last 5 years of suckitude. I want someone new.

I agree with you nfreeman, I just wanna say that looking at 2011, if you account for the fact that Sheppard got us Jerry Hughes, I'd take that haul any day :P

 

But yes, complete culture change, spare no one.

[tom webster]

Whaley became AGM in February 2010 and GM in May 2013. Since he became AGM, they've gone 4-12, 6-10, 6-10, 6-10 and whatever they finish this year.

 

Their draft picks in rounds 1-4 since he became AGM:

 

2010:

C.J. Spiller

Torell Troup

Alex Carrington

Marcus Easley

 

2011:

Marcell Dareus

Aaron Williams

Kelvin Sheppard

Da'Norris Searcy

Chris Hairston

 

2012:

Stephon Gilmore

Cordy Glenn

T.J. Graham

Nigel Bradham

Ron Brooks

 

2013:

EJ Manuel

Robert Woods

Kiko Alonso

Marquise Goodwin

Duke Williams

 

2014:

Sammy Watkins

Cyrus Kouandjio

Preston Brown

Ross Cockrell

 

What do we have here?

 

To me, it looks like since Whaley's been here, they've done reasonably well -- but not extremely well -- at drafting solid guys on D. Dareus may have turned the corner this year and become a reliable star-level player, but he's more or less where he should be as the #3 overall pick. None of the other guys on D he's drafted has become a star. And on offense, in 5 drafts, he's drafted one star (Watkins), a couple of good players (Glenn and Woods), Spiller, who at #9 overall gave them 1 good year out of 5 and is probably gone after this year, and one QB who's probably a washout in EJ.

 

Most importantly, he's utterly failed to address QB, which is by far the most important position. How in the world could they have gone into the season this year with EJ as the only plan, and then signed a street free agent 10 days before the season started? Real NFL teams aren't run this way.

 

Bottom line is that Whaley is responsible for delivering a winning team, and has failed to do so. He's been a big part of the last 5 years of suckitude. I want someone new.

 

What real teams? The Patriots? Look at their drafts and where would they be if they didn't get lucky with that 6th round pick a few years ago. The Bronco's ? Did they plan the Manning injury and subsequent free agent tour? The Colts? How prepared were they for Manning's injury or was their plan all along to suck for Newton and or Luck depending when Peyton broke down? The Saints? They got Brees only because Miami passed and they were so desparate they guaranteed a contract that no one else would? The Seahawks? They signed Matt Flynn to a mega deal before stumbling onto Wilson. The 49ers? They were set to give the reigns to Alex Smith before Kaepernick appeared.

The Bills tried all summer to convince Orton to sign. Who would you rather had them sign? McCown? I am all about drafting a quarterback till you get it right so I would have liked to see him draft someone last year but none of them would have been ready anyway.

You can pick and choose how you evaluate his performance but if you are going to use drafts when he was an assistant then give him credit for the state of the roster improvement in those years as well. It is clear that they are solidly in the middle of the pack now and as you say, its really all about the QB now and like it or not, luck will play a huge roll in deciding if they find a Russell Wilson or end up settling for an Andy Dalton

[nfreeman]

What real teams? The Patriots? Look at their drafts and where would they be if they didn't get lucky with that 6th round pick a few years ago. The Bronco's ? Did they plan the Manning injury and subsequent free agent tour? The Colts? How prepared were they for Manning's injury or was their plan all along to suck for Newton and or Luck depending when Peyton broke down? The Saints? They got Brees only because Miami passed and they were so desparate they guaranteed a contract that no one else would? The Seahawks? They signed Matt Flynn to a mega deal before stumbling onto Wilson. The 49ers? They were set to give the reigns to Alex Smith before Kaepernick appeared.

The Bills tried all summer to convince Orton to sign. Who would you rather had them sign? McCown? I am all about drafting a quarterback till you get it right so I would have liked to see him draft someone last year but none of them would have been ready anyway.

You can pick and choose how you evaluate his performance but if you are going to use drafts when he was an assistant then give him credit for the state of the roster improvement in those years as well. It is clear that they are solidly in the middle of the pack now and as you say, its really all about the QB now and like it or not, luck will play a huge roll in deciding if they find a Russell Wilson or end up settling for an Andy Dalton

 

All of the teams you mentioned kept working on the QB position until they got the right guy. Denver made the playoffs and won a playoff game the year before they brought in Manning. SF had a #1 overall pick in Alex Smith at QB, who got them to the playoffs and also won a playoff game -- but they weren't satisfied and used a high #2 pick after that season on Kaepernick. Seattle didn't really "stumble" on Wilson -- they drafted him in the 3rd round. The Pats had Bledsoe when they drafted Brady.

 

The Bills haven't done ANYTHING about improving the QB position other than drafting EJ.

 

If the Bills get spanked by the Packers, the Broncos and the Pats -- and 2 (if not 3) of those opponents shred the Bills' D -- and finish 7-9, will you want to clean house?

[PASabreFan]

I'm convinced Terry learned some kind of lesson with the Sabres and will conduct a scorched-earth campaign on the team's "braintrust" after the season. You don't spend over a billion dollars to get onto the national sports stage and have scrubs in charge. I think for this franchise he won't be happy with a Murray-Nolan-like combo. He'll want the best talent money can buy. This ain't the NHL.

[calti]

With EJ there is nothing to develop. He can't throw. That doesn't develope.

Edited November 10, 2014 by calti

[wjag]

With EJ there is nothing to develop. He can't throw. That doesn't develope.

 

Bad habits develop

[qwksndmonster]

5: was ordered by the coach per FJax this morning. Stupid.

 

6: the poor play is on Orton. The failure to recognize that he was flustered and that 3 points on 4th and 10 would be valuable, that's on Marrone.

 

And 2: Whoever is coaching McLovin on punt returns needs to tell him to stop trying to score on every return. He's now allowed the other team to take the lead at least twice. (That NE game is still in my head!) That's a coaching issue.

You leave Leodis alone! Players make mistakes. Leodis muffed two kicks badly in his career. Yesterday he even came back on the next punt return and put the offense in prime location to score a TD. He's dumb, but he's a good football player. The funny thing about his punt return fumble yesterday is it came went he had the most space. He's been incredibly good this year at catching punts with players in his face and making them miss.

 

And if people really think EJ can't develop, wow. Did any of you think Foles was going to become a starter in Philly?

[Hoss]

One person who isn't getting enough ###### is Scott Chandler on that Bryce Brown fumble... What the actual ######? You're a tight end and couldn't grab that ball? It bounced directly into his hands and wouldve nullified Bryce's mistake but he let it slip out of bounce... Yikes.

[Brawndo]

5: was ordered by the coach per FJax this morning. Stupid.

 

6: the poor play is on Orton. The failure to recognize that he was flustered and that 3 points on 4th and 10 would be valuable, that's on Marrone.

 

And 2: Whoever is coaching McLovin on punt returns needs to tell him to stop trying to score on every return. He's now allowed the other team to take the lead at least twice. (That NE game is still in my head!) That's a coaching issue.

 

This is quite telling, Marrone refused to answer if they were going to snap the ball in his Post Game PC, and Jackson states on his radio show they were not.

 

Jackson is one of the leaders on this team and would run through a wall if asked, yet Marrone has seemed to lost his respect, starting with the decision to have a full practice the day after a preseason game. Jackson let his displeasure known to the press after that.

 

Going back to his shouting match with Hughes in the preseason, plus the Jackson incidents has Marrone lost the locker room?

Edited November 10, 2014 by BRAWNDO