GDT: Sabres @ Penguins - Nov 11, 2023 - 7:30pm, MSG/ESPN+📺WGR📻

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

It’s time to start trying to move some of the pieces around. We should have an idea of who’s close and who isn’t ready for the big leagues. Not to mention, I am not sure many of those guys are capable of grinding out those lower line minutes. It’s not just about good, better, best across 4 lines on game day. 

Somebody posted in the Mitts extension thread about how “the core is set” and we might not be able to meet Mitts value because he’s “core +1”. I posited that if that hypothetical is true. IF!!!! That Mitts has played well enough to be included. He’s only 24. I would consider moving one of the guys out to the core next offseason for a haul of depth to make room for Mitts going forward. Being GM isn’t just about drafting guys. It’s about vision and timing of when and who to commit to and when to not commit to them.

Again, not suggesting it, but if not keeping Mitts because of “the core” is rattling through the brains in the FO I’d shop some guys.

It’s not the best time to make moves, that would be the off season. Still, you can see that they are going to have to improve and balance the roster if they are serious about competing.  
 

Mitts will be retained. 

[bunomatic]

Well that went well. Growing pains I suppose. 

[repster]

Why are we all so frustrated despite being in the thick of the standings?  
Look at some of these losses…

Rangers 1st game, not even close.

Flames 3rd game, you can’t lose at home to a bad team like that.

Habs, 5th game, see Flames game.

Flyers loss, not even close.

This game, not even close.  
 

Except for tonight - they were all HOME games… inexcusable.

What about a couple of the wins?

Flyers game outshot 40-15, UPL stole it.

Wild game, Levi stole it.

So in about half the games they’ve played, they’ve been terrible.

Too many people (in the media up here at least) were putting this team on a pedestal.

I think they slightly overachieved last year and are maybe still a year away from being a playoff contender.

Many Sabres had career years last year.  This year, SO FAR, there doesn’t seem to be that confidence and some players have slipped.  Where is the speed and offensive killer instinct from last year?

More focus defensively can’t be at the expense of the offense.  
I’m just not even seeing much speed anywhere, on defense or offense. 

Puck control and playmaking is poor.

The faceoffs and power play is a huge problem right now.

The talent of this team is somehow having them at .500, but they’re just not playing better than their opponents most nights.

OK, rant off, back into hibernation…

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It’s not the best time to make moves, that would be the off season. Still, you can see that they are going to have to improve and balance the roster if they are serious about competing.  
 

Mitts will be retained. 

Sorry, I thought I mentioned the offseason. I totally agree.

[DarthEbriate]

I didn't see the game and have no frame of reference. So I won't complain about any one player or event. Instead, I make sweeping generalizations.

It is very difficult to stack wins, especially on the 2nd night of a back-to-back where you traveled, and especially against a veteran team that's jelled in their last few games.

But if the Sabres want to make the playoffs, they have to start winning season series against the Caps, the Isles, the Penguins, and the Sens of the world. If you don't make some hay against them, you won't pass them in the standings.

[KC Scouts]

How about an upgrade in the assistant coaches? KA and TP won’t throw Donnie Meatballs under the bus just yet….. but how about a little shake up? Maybe we could move up Michael P….. oh yeah, he’s gone already…

[Randall Flagg]

I don't care which metrics say what, either - Owen Power is completely overwhelmed with simple tasks. He is struggling badly with the speed of the game. This is not a sweeping condemnation - I would expect nothing less. Hedman looked worse at his age. I think he's going to have a very similar career to Victor. But right now I can't escape what I'm seeing - a player who has to think a split second too long so that the passing lane closes, the shooting lane closes, the forechecker can engage and turn possession into a 50-50 battle. This is happening 2/3rds of the times he touches the puck. It's a significant contributor to the fact that our transition offense has been bone-dry this year compared to last. 

My IRL friends that have picked up the Sabres in recent years text me every day telling me how we should try putting Savoie or Kulich in the lineup, giving more responsibility to Benson, stuff like that. Completely brainwashed - look at Casey and Tage (and Dahlin to an extent). We need a roster full of players who are as established as these two, and more. These two had to grind for half a decade to get to this point. The road ahead of Power, Benson, Savoie, Kulich, to get to this degree of usefulness (where they are no longer seeing things for the first time, have man-strength, and have a bank of experience they can refer to whenever anything comes up), is LONG. It may take 5+ years for all of them to be a genuine HELP to the Sabres in the way that this Sabres team needs - the way Tuch helps them, the way Drury or Numminen helped them years ago. And Quinn, JJP, Cozens aren't much further down the path. It's great to have an organization with good players at all ages/levels of development like this, but not when the roster is so unbalanced towards inexperience. If I hear the words "blocking a prospect" one more time I'm going to blow a gasket. Nobody is blocking these guys, and you could safely supplement this team with real help for entire contracts before these kids are 1.) capable of leaving the organization and 2.) capable of contributing to a playoff run in a meaningful way. 

If you wait for the young names to get to where Tage, Dahlin and Casey are right now, you aren't going anywhere ever, because they become the disgruntled Eichels/Reinharts long before the next version of Tage/Casey/Dahlin themselves are ready to be good. The cycle is literally identical and Kevyn needs to start prioritizing real balance yesterday. The team is walking on the edge of a cliff with this *****. You can't keep pretending to be a real team without causing damage that will escalate exponentially just like last time

[PerreaultForever]

Well as I said last night, goaltending matters.

So we won one last night because of good goaltending and we lost one tonight because of bad goaltending. Although I'm not sure we'd have won even if UPL was any good (first two goals were absolute garbage, third one a tip so I guess can't fault him on that one) as we struggled with their forecheck and once they got up they checked and kind of took the foot off the gas so it's hard to say.

We were just easy to beat tonight. Can't say I liked much about how we played except maybe a few quick outlet passes that created opportunities. We do do that well. 

 

The good news is Montreal showed the Bruins are very beatable. The bad news is they did it a completely different way then we play (they used the Florida game plan) so it will be interesting to see if our way can succeed against their style. Contrast in style games are always interesting imo. 

Might have been a one off, but based on tonight, the Montreal rebuild looks like it's leapt over us already. The make up of their team is balanced and has the ability to play different ways. I wonder if that'll hold up over the full season. If it does, our chances for playoffs are slim to none. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I don't care which metrics say what, either - Owen Power is completely overwhelmed with simple tasks. He is struggling badly with the speed of the game. This is not a sweeping condemnation - I would expect nothing less. Hedman looked worse at his age. I think he's going to have a very similar career to Victor. But right now I can't escape what I'm seeing - a player who has to think a split second too long so that the passing lane closes, the shooting lane closes, the forechecker can engage and turn possession into a 50-50 battle. 

Which is what happens when you ask too much from a D man too soon, don't pair him with a solid veteran mentor and/or don't give him AHL time/experience to develop. It's not like we haven't made this mistake before. 

[Gatorman0519]

50 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I don't care which metrics say what, either - Owen Power is completely overwhelmed with simple tasks. He is struggling badly with the speed of the game. This is not a sweeping condemnation - I would expect nothing less. Hedman looked worse at his age. I think he's going to have a very similar career to Victor. But right now I can't escape what I'm seeing - a player who has to think a split second too long so that the passing lane closes, the shooting lane closes, the forechecker can engage and turn possession into a 50-50 battle. This is happening 2/3rds of the times he touches the puck. It's a significant contributor to the fact that our transition offense has been bone-dry this year compared to last. 

My IRL friends that have picked up the Sabres in recent years text me every day telling me how we should try putting Savoie or Kulich in the lineup, giving more responsibility to Benson, stuff like that. Completely brainwashed - look at Casey and Tage (and Dahlin to an extent). We need a roster full of players who are as established as these two, and more. These two had to grind for half a decade to get to this point. The road ahead of Power, Benson, Savoie, Kulich, to get to this degree of usefulness (where they are no longer seeing things for the first time, have man-strength, and have a bank of experience they can refer to whenever anything comes up), is LONG. It may take 5+ years for all of them to be a genuine HELP to the Sabres in the way that this Sabres team needs - the way Tuch helps them, the way Drury or Numminen helped them years ago. And Quinn, JJP, Cozens aren't much further down the path. It's great to have an organization with good players at all ages/levels of development like this, but not when the roster is so unbalanced towards inexperience. If I hear the words "blocking a prospect" one more time I'm going to blow a gasket. Nobody is blocking these guys, and you could safely supplement this team with real help for entire contracts before these kids are 1.) capable of leaving the organization and 2.) capable of contributing to a playoff run in a meaningful way. 

If you wait for the young names to get to where Tage, Dahlin and Casey are right now, you aren't going anywhere ever, because they become the disgruntled Eichels/Reinharts long before the next version of Tage/Casey/Dahlin themselves are ready to be good. The cycle is literally identical and Kevyn needs to start prioritizing real balance yesterday. The team is walking on the edge of a cliff with this *****. You can't keep pretending to be a real team without causing damage that will escalate exponentially just like last time

I said this a few times the past few weeks.  All those kids wont be ready until about 26-27.  We should of been signing decent veteran players on 2-3 contracts and develop a better culture and get to the playoffs.  The kids can then enter to an established team in 2-3 years and excel the way Bruins prospects do.  Benson has skills but he needs to add man strength to his body as does Savoie and the others. There were many players in FA that we could of signed and made a 96 point type team and at least start making the playoffs and fix the culture. 

[Zamboni]

My God I hate knee-jerk emotional and usually illogical rantings after losses. Just as much as I hate knee-jerk emotional usually illogical rantings after wins. 

Thank you to those who keep it even tempered with fair analysis.
 

It sucks they lost… I got over it 10 minutes after it happened. Onto the next game.

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I said this a few times the past few weeks.  All those kids wont be ready until about 26-27.  We should of been signing decent veteran players on 2-3 contracts and develop a better culture and get to the playoffs.  The kids can then enter to an established team in 2-3 years and excel the way Bruins prospects do.  Benson has skills but he needs to add man strength to his body as does Savoie and the others. There were many players in FA that we could of signed and made a 96 point type team and at least start making the playoffs and fix the culture. 

The phrase you’re looking for is “could have/could’ve,” not “could of.”

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, bunomatic said:

Well that went well. Growing pains I suppose. 

A very young team that is inconsistent. Just like other young teams before them. And other young teams after them. Because consistency has been a problem with most young teams in every sport. As they gain more experience they gain more consistency. at least that’s how I see it.

[SabresBillsFan]

I was unable to watch the game to really comment but does anyone really know if Buffalo plays a system? To me it looks like run and gun pickup style hockey. They lack puck possession and their overall team defense is disturbing. They seem like they don’t close off the slot area good enough. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

I said this a few times the past few weeks.  All those kids wont be ready until about 26-27.  We should of been signing decent veteran players on 2-3 contracts and develop a better culture and get to the playoffs.  The kids can then enter to an established team in 2-3 years and excel the way Bruins prospects do.  Benson has skills but he needs to add man strength to his body as does Savoie and the others. There were many players in FA that we could of signed and made a 96 point type team and at least start making the playoffs and fix the culture. 

We are, as the athletes like to say, on the same page. This is absolutely 100% correct. 

[thewookie1]

Surprised no one mentioned the interesting tidbit Granato said about Krebs being scratched for "reasons."

Makes one wonder if Krebs broke a team rule or is going to be traded

[PASabreFan]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Peterka hit the post or crossbar as well.  

Get those 2 to go in and let UPL find a way to stop the Malkin shot that went in off his melon and it's a different game entirely.

And what if JFK had worn that silly hat they gave him after his speech at the Trade Mart?

[PASabreFan]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

And with today's loss they are exactly 3 points behind the pace they need to be at an NHL 0.600 which effectively guarantees a playoff spot.  They've averaged picking up 5 points every 5 games and they need to get 6 points every 5 games over the full season.  

They'll need either a really nice win streak or 3 - 5 game segments with 7 points in them (3-1-1, which they'd done the 5 games prior to tonight's game) and hitting that 6 points in 5 in the rest of them.

Somebody else said upthread that missing Tuch is very big for this team.  That sure seems to be the case.  Get him back for Tuesday and get the W and life is moving back towards good again.

More fun with numbers. The difference between a point a game and 1.2 points a game is enormous. You want to make it sound like nothin'.

The sample size is way too small. But the early data objectively speaking is not good a'tall.

[sabrefanday1]

If it is any consolation just about EVERY team in the NHL are playing terribly inconsistently...it clearly is not easy to win evey game (maybe for Vegas)...teams we need to catch for any chance of making the playoffs are struggling too at times (and at other times look great just as we have been doing thsi year thus far).

  I do regret however that we did not build a better fourth line with some muscle (I Istill miss Marcus) and better veteran leadership. resigning KO and Girgs were big mistakes.

  Oh well on to the next game. Like riding a teeter tooter...up and down we go...young team learning with every game   

[Sidc3000]

16 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

If it is any consolation just about EVERY team in the NHL are playing terribly inconsistently...it clearly is not easy to win evey game (maybe for Vegas)...teams we need to catch for any chance of making the playoffs are struggling too at times (and at other times look great just as we have been doing thsi year thus far).

  I do regret however that we did not build a better fourth line with some muscle (I Istill miss Marcus) and better veteran leadership. resigning KO and Girgs were big mistakes.

  Oh well on to the next game. Like riding a teeter tooter...up and down we go...young team learning with every game   

It is to a point. Teams are starting to figure it out, like the Penguins, so that inconsistency will disappear. I know I’m a pessimist with the Sabres but I don’t know if they figure it out. Also, when do we stop using “young team” as a crutch especially since they were suppose to contend for the playoffs?

Edited November 12, 2023 by Sidc3000

[LGR4GM]

I see this place is reacting well to a loss. 

3 rosters moves should occur. My concern is Adams ability to be more ruthless. Olofsson should be removed either via trade or waivers. Okposo and E Johnson need to be rotated in the lineup cuz they are old. Adams needs to trade for a veteran middle 6 forward. 

 

[Believer]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

 

Well as I said last night, goaltending matters.

 

Yep… but UPL didn’t lose the game for us…

1 fluke and 2 other goals against is not bad goaltending…

Our impotent shooting and PP lost the game for us last night… 

Agree with you about a more balanced roster… KA seems to subscribe to the McBeane player pick up strategy… Looking for diamonds in the rough…

Even the Bills spent for Diggs and Miller… but KA is keeping his cap space and his pipeline… and doesn’t appear ready to depart with any prospects to bring in a top tier goalie or a couple difference making veteran skaters in their ‘20s…

Some say our market can’t attract these players… I say bunk… Sweeten the pot… We’ve got plenty of sugar on the roster and in the pipeline… KA is stubborn… 

Still lots of season left… Still in the playoff race… If we miss the playoffs in a year both he and Granato declared winning is the priority… Adams will be hard pressed to stand pat… 

As a poster suggested earlier, we would risk the Eichel Reinhardt syndrome.

Our future is in the hands of Pegula, Adams, and Granato… 

 

[eman]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well as I said last night, goaltending matters.

So we won one last night because of good goaltending and we lost one tonight because of bad goaltending. Although I'm not sure we'd have won even if UPL was any good (first two goals were absolute garbage, third one a tip so I guess can't fault him on that one) as we struggled with their forecheck and once they got up they checked and kind of took the foot off the gas so it's hard to say.

We were just easy to beat tonight. Can't say I liked much about how we played except maybe a few quick outlet passes that created opportunities. We do do that well. 

 

The good news is Montreal showed the Bruins are very beatable. The bad news is they did it a completely different way then we play (they used the Florida game plan) so it will be interesting to see if our way can succeed against their style. Contrast in style games are always interesting imo. 

Might have been a one off, but based on tonight, the Montreal rebuild looks like it's leapt over us already. The make up of their team is balanced and has the ability to play different ways. I wonder if that'll hold up over the full season. If it does, our chances for playoffs are slim to none. 

To me the biggest difference between Montreal's rebuild and Buffalo's is behind the bench: Coach Martin St. Louis. Passionate and not afraid to send a message to his players. The guy was a real competitor on the ice and he brings it to the coaching.

[eman]

8 hours ago, Zamboni said:

My God I hate knee-jerk emotional and usually illogical rantings after losses. Just as much as I hate knee-jerk emotional usually illogical rantings after wins. 

Thank you to those who keep it even tempered with fair analysis.
 

It sucks they lost… I got over it 10 minutes after it happened. Onto the next game.

They've got a little less than 3 weeks to get into a playoff spot or it's not going to happen for another season. We've seen this movie over and over again. The same issues with this club don't seem to get addressed. We will know very shortly where this season is headed.

[PASabreFan]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I see this place is reacting well to a loss. 

3 rosters moves should occur. My concern is Adams ability to be more ruthless. Olofsson should be removed either via trade or waivers. Okposo and E Johnson need to be rotated in the lineup cuz they are old. Adams needs to trade for a veteran middle 6 forward. 

 

A loss? No.