DOES ADAMS GET A GOALIE NOW?!

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’m not saying we didn’t need a solid back up, I’m trying to ask why our goalies, good or bad get injured constantly. We aren’t cycling goalies for purely skill issues; we seem to end up playing 5 or 6 a year due to injuries and that seems perplexing. 
 

 

Because Comrie was getting injured constantly *before* he was our guy. You get that him failing to play many games is par for the course, and that the matter of luck would have only applied if he had *bucked* a 10 year trend, right?

Why did Dahlin get injured and broken down last year to the tune of his play falling off the map? Bad Buffalo luck? Or are there noted variables to consider. How good was our depth D? Wasn’t it demonstrably bad? Could, perhaps, loading up Dahlin with an incredibly difficult workload the entire year because we weren’t confident in our other players perhaps have something to do with him getting hurt?

might the logic of this stance be transferable to other positions? 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Personally, this past offseason it’s pretty damn near it. Most goalies even worth a look stayed with their previous teams and acquiring Saros or Hellebuyck was likely ridiculous to even imagine. 

Is it essential for you to ignore his first 3 seasons to deliver that answer? 

[thewookie1]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Is it essential for you to ignore his first 3 seasons to deliver that answer? 

No, he failed to get a better goalie to help Levi. I just have less anger over this past offseason in a vacuum

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

By the way, the year KA signed Comrie, 15 goalies changed teams many for very reasonable prices, including Adin Hill, Vanacek, Georgiev, Samsonov, and Gustavsson.   The funny thing is that KA was willing to trade a former 3rd rd pick for Stillman (who has since been cut) but wouldn’t use a similar asset to add goaltending. 

All Vanecek cost NJ was a swap of 2's and NJ added a 3.  I think NJ won that one no matter what he does after that.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

NJ were 3rd best in xga last year. We were 27th. I’m not convinced that Vanicek would have thrived here or that UPL/Comrie would have floundered there. 
 

For clarity, I’m not of the view that this is undoable. We are 8 games in and I think there is a clear effort to get the team to play better defence. I don’t think Eric Johnson makes the comment he made if coaches were not emphasizing D.  He was, in my view, imploring his teammates to take serious what is being preached. The lack of great results thus far does not mean it is not being stressed or that it won’t be successful as we get deeper into the season. 

I hear this type of comment a lot.  Mostly it is a defeatist, never ever works for us, type of comment.  But given the difference in coaching between Ruff and Granato, I give it some credence.  I will also note that Vanecek is a year younger and has much better resume (i.e. NHL stat line). 

[Zamboni]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I hear this type of comment a lot.  Mostly it is a defeatist, never ever works for us, type of comment.  But given the difference in coaching between Ruff and Granato, I give it some credence.  I will also note that Vanecek is a year younger and has much better resume (i.e. NHL stat line). 

He’s right though. Just like Ullmark would not have been “Boston Ullmark” if he stayed in Buffalo. It’s a different team, different roster, different coaches, different GM, Different everything! I’m not saying better across the board. But it’s just different, so Ullmark would have been different most likely too. 

[Claude Balls]

Nope!!! He hasn't yet and will not do so. He is banking on Levi. And he is going to wreck the kid. Adams rides the short bus, and Pegula doesn't even know he still owns a hockey team. Yes, I'm frustrated. Was at the Amerks game last night. Was some great hockey, but they also have a goaltending problem. Cooley is not that good. Not sure why the whole Sabres organization thinks they can skate by with garbage goalies. 

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

He’s right though. Just like Ullmark would not have been “Boston Ullmark” if he stayed in Buffalo. It’s a different team, different roster, different coaches, different GM, Different everything! I’m not saying better across the board. But it’s just different, so Ullmark would have been different most likely too. 

Sure, and given the coaching differences and the lack of emphasis on defense (until now of course), any goalie is better on Boston than on Buffalo.   

But would Ulmark's 2.7'ish GAA and his 0.915'ish SV%  (his stats in Buffalo) be better that what we got from Toker, Dell, Comrie, and UPL?  Yes, for sure.  

We have playing with minor league goaltending for the past few seasons and this needs fixing.  

[pi2000]

What a ***** joke.   Handing out tens of millions in deals left and right with a 10 cent goalie.    FITFO

[Marvin]

I have said it a few times as an inference, but now I am convinced.

Because the Cup winning team he was on did not have a clear #1 goalkeeper, GMKA does not value goalkeeping the way that we do.  He is willing to ride out mediocre goalkeeping rather than pay top dollar to bring in quality from the outside.

[Pimlach]

18 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I have said it a few times as an inference, but now I am convinced.

Because the Cup winning team he was on did not have a clear #1 goalkeeper, GMKA does not value goalkeeping the way that we do.  He is willing to ride out mediocre goalkeeping rather than pay top dollar to bring in quality from the outside.

Well ..... Cam Ward took over the #1 role in his rookie season and he won the Cup for them by having a monster playoff.   

After that, he had a long career and fine career.  He was a legit #1, and he was a workhorse.  In 14 seasons he played over 50 games 8 times, over 60 games 5 times, over 70 games 1 time.  That is exactly what a #1 is. 

    Career stats:   2.78 GAA;   0.908 Sv %;   in 701 NHL games --->   pretty darn good.  

His teams only made the playoff twice and they won one (grrrrr).   His stats in 41 playoff games are also exemplary.  

The Sabres did not get a shot at that Cup because of injuries to our defense AND Cam Ward.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams hasn't done enough. 

At some point he has to make a move to help improve the current team. 
All of Kulich, Savoie, Rosen and Benson should be ready to contribute to the team this season and definitely for next season. 
 

its time to put this years first and one of their high end prospects into play.  
you add a young player like Jokiharju, and another AHL prospect in a deal  - you should be able to bring back a substantial piece to this years team 

[Pimlach]

15 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

At some point he has to make a move to help improve the current team. 
All of Kulich, Savoie, Rosen and Benson should be ready to contribute to the team this season and definitely for next season. 
 

its time to put this years first and one of their high end prospects into play.  
you add a young player like Jokiharju, and another AHL prospect in a deal  - you should be able to bring back a substantial piece to this years team 

Huh - Who are the four forwards you replace this season to play Kulich, Savoie, Rosen and Benson?  How do you replace them?  Waivers?  Trades?  

[Crusader1969]

50 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Huh - Who are the four forwards you replace this season to play Kulich, Savoie, Rosen and Benson?  How do you replace them?  Waivers?  Trades?  

That’s my point, time to make a trade.  There is only 1 spot available in the top 9, time to put one of them in play. 
 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I have said it a few times as an inference, but now I am convinced.

Because the Cup winning team he was on did not have a clear #1 goalkeeper, GMKA does not value goalkeeping the way that we do.  He is willing to ride out mediocre goalkeeping rather than pay top dollar to bring in quality from the outside.

Have been saying that for a long time.  And it is frustrating as all get out.  Because you really do need quality goaltending to win.  Totally get his seeming point that every year quality goaltending can and does come from unexpected places, because it really does as Johansson is demonstrating this year (though honestly there's always a few guys that have their out of nowhere seasons (nearly all of which disappear back into nothingness rather than becoming Tim Thomas)).  But, you can't EXPECT to be the team that plays that winning lottery ticket in a given year.  Even if you buy 3 low probability lottery tickets each year, it's nuts to EXPECT one of those tickets to hit - 3x an extremely low probability is still a very low probability.  Yes, somebody's ticket hits each year; and occassionally the crazy parlay will get the mortgage payment for you, but more often than not, you're going to find yourself homeless relying on the the parlay to pay the mortgage.  And Kevyn Adams has been trying to pay the mortgage with parlays every year he's been the GM.  (And with that said, STILL expect Levi will be the real deal).

But have been wondering about the same Q @thewookie1 has been asking since Comrie left last night's game.  Is it simply dumb luck that the Sabres goalies seem to annually get injured at an inordinately high rate, an indictment of their defensive play that the goalie finds himself needing to move in ways to make plays the body simply can't do on consistent basis without something giving out, or an indictment of the Bales coaching, i.e. do the goalies get coached to move in ways that increase the chances for injuries?

Was really happy when the Sabres landed Bales.  But am really close to the point of wanting him to get out of town on the same bus the guy drawing up the PP's leaves on.

[LTS]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You are talking quantity, I'm talking quality.  I've been advocating for months to pair Levi with one proven NHL veteran goalie.  Instead KA gave us Levi and 2 AHL quality goalies on his NHL roster.  Once Levi got hurt, the choices in goal became 4 AHL quality goalies.  Who cares who is on the NHL roster, none of UPL, Comrie, Tokarski or Cooley are good enough to carry this team in case of injury.  Why are we in this position?  Easy KA has refused to invest in the position and it's destroying his rebuild.

It was your post that talked both quantity and quality that I was questioning. I'm not talking anything other than trying to figure out which it is you wanted. Your post contradicted itself talking both quantity and quality with your last line insinuating that somehow Adams should have got 3 NHL goaltenders.

The entire distillation of my point is that injuries to your top 2 goaltenders, whoever they are, is usually pretty damning for a team. So no matter WHO you have as those goaltenders, they aren't making saves if they can't play.

I asked questions in my original response to you and you've yet to respond to them. Your only hope was trying to twist words around. You still have not answered the original questions. It's honestly not worth talking about any further.  Clearly you are fixated on trying to make a point of some kind.

Pimlach at least debated the three NHL goaltenders.  I still don't agree with him because nothing is proven, but at least he was addressing the issue.

 

[Doohickie]

13 hours ago, Night Train said:

What is Levi's current status anyhow ? 

Day to day.

I heard they're looking to sign some retired guy named Craig or something.

[Crusader1969]

I’ll throw a name out there …. 
 

Jake Allen.  Not a “big name” that we all want but he could team up with Levi and they could be an decent tandem 

KA has to know now he can’t rely on Comrie to stay healthy.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I’ll throw a name out there …. 
 

Jake Allen.  Not a “big name” that we all want but he could team up with Levi and they could be an decent tandem 

KA has to know now he can’t rely on Comrie to stay healthy.  

I would be happy with Jake, but he's not going to be available.  He is holding things together in Montréal or they would be in contention for another #1 overall pick next summer.

UPL has shown flashes.  I am hoping beyond hope that @Hank is right.  I think he just might be.  Seems like UPL is our only hope right now until Levi is back.

It's too late for KA to do anything now.  The die is cast for this season baring some miracle.  

[LTS]

Given that the Sabres can't beat Jake Allen it would make sense to try and get him. 🙂

[Archie Lee]

19 hours ago, Zamboni said:

He’s right though. Just like Ullmark would not have been “Boston Ullmark” if he stayed in Buffalo. It’s a different team, different roster, different coaches, different GM, Different everything! I’m not saying better across the board. But it’s just different, so Ullmark would have been different most likely too. 

Thanks for this.  I agree. 

I should add though, that I think Adams did himself no favor when he failed to get Ullmark signed.  My position going back to Ullmark's final year with the Sabres is that the Thatcher Demko 5 x $5 million deal was the benchmark for getting a goalie like pre-Bruins Ullmark signed long-term. It is, basically, the deal Tristan Jarry got this off-season as well.  All three were basically .911 - .915 goalies (not stars, but upper-mid-level starters) at the time they signed their current deals.  Ullmark, to his full-credit, is benefiting from the team-impact on his #'s.  Had Adams offered Ullmark 5x5 before the end of the 2021-2022 season, I can't imagine that he would have declined. Adams's reluctance to go past 4 years, I think, helped Ullmark decide to test the market and when the Bruins matched our offer he took the opportunity to go to a winning team rather than stay with the Sabres through a rebuild. Make no mistake though, Ullmark at .911 - .915 here, would be plenty good enough. 

Vanicek, in my opinion, is at least a grade-level below Ullmark, Demko, and Jarry and I'm not convinced he would be better here than the goalies we have on our roster have been. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Archie Lee

[dudacek]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:59 AM, Pimlach said:

Well, New Jersey has 3 on their roster right now.  Two are home grown prospects, both Schmid and Daws are their future and have looked very good in the AHL.  Something Levi has not experienced and UPL was maybe mediocre in.  
Venacek is the vet that they picked up for the price of a Conner Clifton contract.  Vanecek signed a 3 year deal when KA was messing with guys like Tokarski and Dell.   Vanecek is not viewed as a blocker, he is an enabler. 
.  

 

22 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

Last year, in the same lean market that Adams had,  Fitzgerald got Vanecek ($3.5 for 3 years) for a swap of seconds and a third.  Essentially he paid nothing.  They rode him for 53 games into the playoff, then they went with Schmid.  Vanecek is not the long term answer,  but they looked at him as an enabler, not a blocker.  I am using Adams words in relation to Ulmark - a blocker.   
 

So NJ has 2 prospects and a vet, with Schmid the closer prospect.  Now look  at Schmid and Daws AHL record, they are much better than UPLs.  Levi has no AHL record, which is a separate discussion on how to handle him. 
 

In that same off season Adam’s got Comrie who was more economical and less of a blocker, 2 years at $1.8M, but far less proven.  Look at the two teams results.  Look at their goaltending records. 
 

I don’t have to tell you who else Adams could have got, he could have got Vanecek last year, but he covets his picks and prospects way too much.   This off season there were deals to be made but since I’m not sitting in his office I can’t answer your question.   Its not my job and not anyone else’s job on this board.   
 

I don’t give credit to Executives for trying.  I give credit to Executives for performing.  Adam’s gets credit for a lot, but not for his handling of this teams goaltending.  

 

Adams is on record as saying we’ve got 3 good goaltenders. He didn’t get another one because he thought the choices available to him didn’t help the team. He thought Comrie was a better choice than Vanecek.

There’s not much else to say about this. He’s right or he’s wrong and the way the season plays out will determine which.

Ullmark is not a Bruin because Adams didn’t want him or thought he was a blocker, he’s a Bruin because he got a better offer. Again, that’s an Adams valuation.

As far as Vanecek goes, Dahlin and Peterka beat him clean with wristers from above the circle and Cozens scored from the goal line. I don’t think he - or goalies like him - were the answer, at least not as a guy you count on for 40+ games. Devils fans seem to agree.

[Zamboni]

52 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Thanks for this.  I agree. 

I should add though, that I think Adams did himself no favor when he failed to get Ullmark signed.  My position going back to Ullmark's final year with the Sabres is that the Thatcher Demko 5 x $5 million deal was the benchmark for getting a goalie like pre-Bruins Ullmark signed long-term. It is, basically, the deal Tristan Jarry got this off-season as well.  All three were basically .911 - .915 goalies (not stars, but upper-mid-level starters) at the time they signed their current deals.  Ullmark, to his full-credit, is benefiting from the team-impact on his #'s.  Had Adams offered Ullmark 5x5 before the end of the 2021-2022 season, I can't imagine that he would have declined. Adams's reluctance to go past 4 years, I think, helped Ullmark decide to test the market and when the Bruins matched our offer he took the opportunity to go to a winning team rather than stay with the Sabres through a rebuild. Make no mistake though, Ullmark at .911 - .915 here, would be plenty good enough. 

Vanicek, in my opinion, is at least a grade-level below Ullmark, Demko, and Jarry and I'm not convinced he would be better here than the goalies we have on our roster have been. 

No one would have said a word IF Ullmark went to Boston and was no better than UPL is today, last year or two.. Only WHEN Ullmark started to have a great year, did the “KA screwed up by not keeping Ullmark” rantings start to heat up. Sure maybe  1% of fans thought it was a mistake by KA the day Ullmark chose Boston. But it certainly was not the growing rant that it is today. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz.

[Doohickie]

FREE HOUSER

[Pimlach]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Adams is on record as saying we’ve got 3 good goaltenders. He didn’t get another one because he thought the choices available to him didn’t help the team. He thought Comrie was a better choice than Vanecek.

There’s not much else to say about this. He’s right or he’s wrong and the way the season plays out will determine which.

Ullmark is not a Bruin because Adams didn’t want him or thought he was a blocker, he’s a Bruin because he got a better offer. Again, that’s an Adams valuation.

As far as Vanecek goes, Dahlin and Peterka beat him clean with wristers from above the circle and Cozens scored from the goal line. I don’t think he - or goalies like him - were the answer, at least not as a guy you count on for 40+ games. Devils fans seem to agree.

I thought the Bruins matched our offer for Ulmark and he took it without letting Adams counter?  Either way, add this to Adams record on goaltender management since he could have re-sign him prior to that anyway and he waited. He was in love with Levi.  
 

Every goaltending statistic out there tells you Vanecek is better than Comrie.  By any measure he was more experienced and reliable and way more durable.  But he cost $1M more and and extra year - he met the definition of Blocker.  

Last year Vanecek played 53 games and led his team to the playoffs.  He is limited, he is not a true 1, but he is a solid 1B/2 that can bail you out if your goalie goes down.   He and Levi would be a better combo than Levi and UPL/Comrie.   Adam’s is learning how fragile Comrie is.  He played 40+ professional games once - in AHL.   

There is no defense for Adams handling of our goaltending.  He failed his team last year and this year is starting out rough with the same trio.