DOES ADAMS GET A GOALIE NOW?!

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, LTS said:

Wwhat do you do more than trying? Are you once again advocating that Adams should have gone full stupid and made a deal so lopsided against the Sabres that it would hurt the team overall?  What is "more than trying"?  That high price for Hellebuyck would look really bad if Hellebuyck was injured.

Let's say he manages to fleece GMs and makes the most sweetheart deals in the world for the Sabres and brought in ANY two goaltenders that would actually make YOU happy.  Then both of them get injured.  Would you still be making this post?

Of course you would, because you are actually blasting a GM for not having THREE goalies on the roster that are "NHL" level.

Which teams have that luxury?

Well, New Jersey has 3 on their roster right now.  Two are home grown prospects, both Schmid and Daws are their future and have looked very good in the AHL.  Something Levi has not experienced and UPL was maybe mediocre in.  

Venacek is the vet that they picked up for the price of a Conner Clifton contract.  Vanecek signed a 3 year deal when KA was messing with guys like Tokarski and Dell.   Vanecek is not viewed as a blocker, he is an enabler. 

As for your passionate  defense of Adams trying.  Trying means nothing without results.  Trying is good for school kids, but not good enough for executives in this business.  Adam’s job is to find players to help us win RIGHT NOW.   
 

As for injuries, they can and will happen.  They happened yesterday.  Injuries are why you make moves to get veteran depth. We have none.  New Jersey does though.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

If the goaltending need just cropped up this last off-season then the arguments that maybe a deal wasn’t there has more merit.  However it hasn’t been one off-season.  It’s been 3 off-seasons and  two trade deadlines and what do we have to show for it?  Consistently nearly the worst goaltending in hockey.  

[Archie Lee]

It would, honestly, require a Saros or a Hellebuyck level goalie for the Sabres to look like they have good goaltending.  If this team could just learn to commit to team defence and be offensively patient at times (not passive, just patient), we could have dragged 2 or 3 games to OT this year, we would have 2-4 more points in the standings and our goaltending would be fine (not great, just fine).  Until we stop being careless with the puck and being happy to just trade chances with the opposition, including in the 3rd period of tied games, this is just what it's going to look like. 

Per MoneyPuck, we are 25th in the league in expected goals against at 5v5 and in all situations.  Our expected goal differential in all situations is -3.  We are at -4.  Our goaltending has been far from great, but it has not been the issue.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Archie Lee

[Mango]

I mentioned this earlier in the year after watching the Sabres behind the draft video that it feels like Adams takes a back seat to almost of thing. I didn’t get the vibe that he delegated the draft, or collaborates, rather he came across like a kid at the adults table, staring at Jersey Forton for approval for everything. Other than sitting at the head of the table, he didn’t come across as the boss man at any point. 

That said, if this team is built on prospects , Adams let’s Forton control the draft, we aren’t active in FA, and we aren’t packaging any of those prospects for any veteran players positions of need, WTF is he doing?

 

[Norcal]

No.

There's no help coming this season.

Buckle up and settle in. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Goalies are not easy to get. Tampa is using one of our cast offs now. There is no magic goalie tree to go pick a fresh new goalie

That cast off is playing well too.  28 years old and finally may become a solid NHL goalie. 
 

 

[zow2]

17 minutes ago, Norcal said:

No.

There's no help coming this season.

Buckle up and settle in. 

It's a scary thought to buckle up on what is basically an airliner that nosediving to earth.

Still hoping that Levi can fly us out of this....

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Off season acquisitions to help last years team:  

    E Johnson - 1 yr at $3.25M;  note 1 year will not block R Johnson  

    Clifton - 3 years at $10M = $3.33M per year 

    cap hit = $ 6.55M this year.  Specifically spent to upgrade this season over the last. 
 

You are referring to Dahlin and Power, they were already on the team, already factor into his cap usage plan, he already had them on contract and he chose to not bridge Power - one of his draft picks and designated core.  

  Dahlin - 8 yrs at $88M = $11M yr (next year)

  Power - 7 yrs at $50.45M = $8.35M ( next year) 

  Cap hit $19.35M (next year).  This was allocated in his long term plan to pay the core, and it is not money designated to improve our team this year. 

These were both good additions to a bottom pair where Joki struggled, and Clague/Bryson/Stillman played almost every game. The Sabres still needed a top 4 defenseman to help or shield Power, who clearly needs that. They knew they needed it- they were in on Chychrun and Hanifin. But he didn't make it happen.

[JoeSchmoe]

44 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It would, honestly, require a Saros or a Hellebuyck level goalie for the Sabres to look like they have good goaltending.  If this team could just learn to commit to team defence and be offensively patient at times (not passive, just patient), we could have dragged 2 or 3 games to OT this year, we would have 2-4 more points in the standings and our goaltending would be fine (not great, just fine).  Until we stop being careless with the puck and being happy to just trade chances with the opposition, including in the 3rd period of tied games, this is just what it's going to look like. 

Per MoneyPuck, we are 25th in the league in expected goals against at 5v5 and in all situations.  Our expected goal differential in all situations is -3.  We are at -4.  Our goaltending has been far from great, but it has not been the issue.

You missed the point. 

If we have to roll out UPL on a regular basis, we're doomed. 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

Hellebuyck got his $$ . So the GM never wanted to trade him.

The other internet GM suggestions like Hart or Gibson (sucks) were dreamworld scenerio's that were never going to happen.

Not defending KA at all... but the shelves at Wal-Mart were not stocked with actual imaginary help. UPL should have been sent away this summer for a bag of pucks. The Amerk goalies are just as good if not better and that says very little. 

What is Levi's current status anyhow ? 

Glad to see some people get it 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

It would, honestly, require a Saros or a Hellebuyck level goalie for the Sabres to look like they have good goaltending.  If this team could just learn to commit to team defence and be offensively patient at times (not passive, just patient), we could have dragged 2 or 3 games to OT this year, we would have 2-4 more points in the standings and our goaltending would be fine (not great, just fine).  Until we stop being careless with the puck and being happy to just trade chances with the opposition, including in the 3rd period of tied games, this is just what it's going to look like. 

Per MoneyPuck, we are 25th in the league in expected goals against at 5v5 and in all situations.  Our expected goal differential in all situations is -3.  We are at -4.  Our goaltending has been far from great, but it has not been the issue.

Good stuff here.  Improving the overall team defense, as in how they play, is the first and easiest problem to solve.  Without that it makes it hard for any goalie to look good. 

I think back to the Columbus game on National TV, the one were Tage potted 5 goals.  Every single person on the broadcast said it’s time for the Sabres to focus on team defense and goaltending.  

Did they do enough in the offseason and has a team defensive system been installed?  That is what we will learn this season.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[Hank]

As the lone resident on 6K Island, I'm excited to see him get the opportunity. I think he runs with it, holds onto the starters net this year and leads the team to the playoffs. 

[Archie Lee]

15 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You missed the point. 

If we have to roll out UPL on a regular basis, we're doomed. 

No, we could stop turning the puck over and giving the other teams multiple odd-man rushes per game.  The 2nd and 3rd goals against yesterday started with unforced and careless turnovers that lead to breakaways.  We could commit to reducing those type of plays, without sacrificing scoring, and allow fewer goals against.

 

[Carmel Corn]

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

No, we could stop turning the puck over and giving the other teams multiple odd-man rushes per game.  The 2nd and 3rd goals against yesterday started with unforced and careless turnovers that lead to breakaways.  We could commit to reducing those type of plays, without sacrificing scoring, and allow fewer goals against.

 

IDK - it seems when other team make a mistake, Buffalo cannot convert.  When it happens to us (like last night), our goalies are unable to make a SAVE to keep us in the game.  I saw nothing from UPL last night or his previous game (3rd period) that suggests to me that he has improved and can be relied upon.

[CallawaySabres]

8 hours ago, Kristian said:

The goalie situation was entirely avoidable, it’s simply terrible team management.

It really is just unbelievable that it has not been addressed. Was there ever a more glaring hole that every knowledgeable fan could see? I just don't get it...

[Scottysabres]

Cooley recalled from Rochester.

Guess Comrie is done for a bit.

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-rochester-americans-transactions-devin-cooley-recall

Edited October 28, 2023 by Scottysabres

[bob_sauve28]

57 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

That cast off is playing well too.  28 years old and finally may become a solid NHL goalie. 
 

 

So then we should have patience with our young goalies? 

[LGR4GM]

Adams hasn't done enough. 

[JoeSchmoe]

27 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

No, we could stop turning the puck over and giving the other teams multiple odd-man rushes per game.  The 2nd and 3rd goals against yesterday started with unforced and careless turnovers that lead to breakaways.  We could commit to reducing those type of plays, without sacrificing scoring, and allow fewer goals against.

 

Every team has unforced turnovers, but other teams' goalies bail out their defense at a much higher % than UPL. 

Unless we get help, this is another season in the 💩ter. Good luck retaining our young talent for fair prices.

[Rhyno716]

Since there was no realistic trade options and most of the ufa's stayed put a Jeremy Swayman offer sheet was the answer but unfortunately nhl gm's are too afraid to use that option. A Swayman - Levi tandem would have been very ideal for the next 3-4 years. Boston had no cap space so this could have been very doable for a reasonable price and who cares about possible future retaliation.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Rhyno716

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

So then we should have patience with our young goalies? 

Yes and no.  You need to have a real NHL #1 goalie to compete in this league.  You play that goalie while you are developing others.  You develop them in the AHL and bring them up for looks here and there.  You watch to see that goalie excel in the AHL first.  
See: Ryan Miller. 

You don’t rely on a 21 year old rookie with 7 games if professional experience to take you to the playoff.  If that works you are probably lucky.   

You don’t purposely “not block” a prospect and force him in before he is ready.   Make him beat out a NHL player to earn a NHL slot. 
 

Again, look at New Jersey, last season they hired a reasonably capable NHL vet at an affordable contract for three years while their two top goalie prospects develop.  He didn’t block anything, he actually helped them win last year. 

[LTS]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually I wouldn’t write such a post.  I’d have praised KA for taking the risk and attempting to properly fill an obvious hole, just as I praised him for adding Greenway, Clifton and Johnson.  Injuries happen.  I also praised him for bringing back Tokarski as goalie depth in case of injury as I think Tokarski is actually better than Comrie and UPL. 

I’ve learned a lot from watching Anpodolis GM the Braves. He seems to have found the balance between developing prospects, signing his young studs long term, trading prospects for vets to fill holes and signing the right FAs.  He is also willing to move from vets like Swanson and Freeman when their prices got too high.  

As I’ve said before KA has done so much right making the failures in goal even more glaring.  

I’ll put this another way.  Let’s say KA caved and traded Rosen and Savoie for one season of Hellebuyck.  A huge price I know, but how much damage would that have really done to our forward pipeline with Benson, Östlund, Kulich and Wahlberg plus many others still there? We’d still have one of the deepest pools in hockey.  How much better would the Sabres be right now?

It wouldn't matter who Adams traded for Hellebuyck.  The point of the post you made was saying he hadn't done enough to overcome injuries to two goalies. That was what I was questioning.  If he had given up Rosen and Savoie for Hellebuyck then he'd not have them now to give up for a third goalie.

Your original post was focused on how many goalies the Sabres had that were "NHL" level.  Any my question was, you can go get two goalies that are NHL level, both can still get injured, and you'd still be in this spot.

 

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Well, New Jersey has 3 on their roster right now.  Two are home grown prospects, both Schmid and Daws are their future and have looked very good in the AHL.  Something Levi has not experienced and UPL was maybe mediocre in.  

Venacek is the vet that they picked up for the price of a Conner Clifton contract.  Vanecek signed a 3 year deal when KA was messing with guys like Tokarski and Dell.   Vanecek is not viewed as a blocker, he is an enabler. 

As for your passionate  defense of Adams trying.  Trying means nothing without results.  Trying is good for school kids, but not good enough for executives in this business.  Adam’s job is to find players to help us win RIGHT NOW.   
 

As for injuries, they can and will happen.  They happened yesterday.  Injuries are why you make moves to get veteran depth. We have none.  New Jersey does though.  

New Jersey has 3 goalies.  You are pointing to Daws.  Let's just say he's as proven as Levi is at this point.  The argument of "promise" on a goaltender gets shot down around here in relation to Buffalo criteria so it doesn't hold for another team. So New Jersey has Schmid, who has part of 1 season with some success and has looked like crap this year.

1-0-1 in 3 games (so he must have been pulled) - .863 SV%, 4.07 GAA.  Whereas Comrie is at .914 and 2.45.  He's 1-1 and we know why he didn't finish the third game.

So Schmid had success last post season.  Binnington won a cup in his first year called up to St. Louis and has been crap since.  Bottom line, NJ has one goaltender in Vanacek who has been reasonably good and two unproven young goaltenders.

If Schmid gets to age 26 and is an NHL goaltender, then great, but he can't be anointed one yet.

My passionate defense of Adams?  I didn't defend Adams.  I asked what people expected him to do which was "more than trying".  We all know he tried and was unable to make it happen.  So i requested people to respond with what they perceived would have been good.  I'll freely admit that Adams could probably get any goaltender in the league if he wanted.  I am sure a trade of Thompson, Cozens, and Dahlin would get him ANYONE. But the question is, how stupid should Adams be to go acquire a goaltender?

No one ever seems to answer that question. They just critique the lack of result without analyzing what it would take to get the result they would be happy with.

And in the end?  it would not matter.  As I said, if Adams had been able to get two NHL goaltenders without giving up too much it would not change the fact that if BOTH were injured, you'd still be on #3.

Do you think the Devils Daws would hold up?  He might...but it's absolutely a crap shoot.  What makes Daws any better than Levi? 

But for the real kicker on here, let's analyze the TB Lightning, who has a goaltender who has played 7 games so far this year with a record of 4-1-2.  That goaltender has a .925 SV% and 2.56 GAA.  Hell, based on those stats that would be an NHL goaltender the Sabres could use... of course on this forum there was a whole lot of speculation that TBL would go get a goaltender and that they should be interested in Comrie or UPL... because people all know Jonas Johansson was not an NHL goaltender...

Oh.. but apparently he is.

The inevitable response is... oh but the Lightning are able to play better defense in front of him.  And if that's the argument you want to make then the natural counter-argument is.. and has been.. until the Sabres skaters play better defense in front of their goaltender... every goaltender will not look NHL ready.

 

[Archie Lee]

54 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Every team has unforced turnovers, but other teams' goalies bail out their defense at a much higher % than UPL. 

Unless we get help, this is another season in the 💩ter. Good luck retaining our young talent for fair prices.

If the point is that Adams should have got a better goalie then my answer is, fair enough. I think you judge results and thus far the goaltending results have not been good. But not every team in the league is 25th in expected goals against. 24 teams do better (so far this season). 
 

UPL won’t magically turn into Connor Hellebuyck. It doesn’t take magic to play better defensive hockey than we are playing. We can wish and hope for better goaltending or we can reduce the number of opportunities we give to other teams. 

[bunomatic]

I hate to be the one but that zamboni fella from Toronto might be available.

[Thorny]