DOES ADAMS GET A GOALIE NOW?!

[JoeSchmoe]

UPL is not a viable NHL goalie. He has not shown to be a viable AHL goalie.

Comrie is injury prone.

Levi an unproven rookie.

There's no one on the farm.

If KA doesn't at least attempt to make the Sabres look like they're trying to be a legitimate team, it's is going to hurt us when trying to convince the next round of FA's to sign here under fair terms. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

How? Who is trading us a good goalie? The time to do that was the off-season.  

it’s crazy when you think about it.  KA got vets for the defense. He got a vet forward to add to the ones he already had.  However, for reasons known only to him, with Millions in cap space and a pipeline overflowing with forwards, he wouldn’t even entertain the notion of getting a proven netminder to protect our season.  

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How? Who is trading us a good goalie? The time to do that was the off-season.  

it’s crazy when you think about it.  KA got vets for the defense. He got a vet forward to add to the ones he already had.  However, for reasons known only to him, with Millions in cap space and a pipeline overflowing with forwards, he wouldn’t even entertain the notion of getting a proven netminder to protect our season.  

?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

?

Greenway

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Greenway

Greenway wasn't an offseason addition I guess, that's why I was confused. Adams entered the open phase when players' contracts expire and when teams like to trade and didn't get any forwards out of it. 

Also, while Greenway is technically a veteran, he was acquired as a lost young player/reclamation project. That has gone well, but Greenway is no different from Tage or Cozens or any of the other guys trying to do this for the first time.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Greenway wasn't an offseason addition I guess, that's why I was confused. Adams entered the open phase when players' contracts expire and when teams like to trade and didn't get any forwards out of it. 

Also, while Greenway is technically a veteran, he was acquired as a lost young player/reclamation project. That has gone well, but Greenway is no different from Tage or Cozens or any of the other guys trying to do this for the first time.

Greenway was a reclamation project of sorts, but was acquired for his physical game and the fact had two years left on his contract.  He was acquired because he filled a need on this team just like Johnson and Clifton.  

Veteran goaltending was as obvious a need as veteran D and a physical forward.  It’s been an obvious need since before Ullmark walked.  It’s a need even he has acknowledge by his attempts to land Murray and Jones. 

I love Levi’s potential as much as anyone, but to go into this critical season relaying on 3 goalies with only 100 games on NHL experience between them was stupid and we are now paying the price for that stupidity.

What drives me nuts is that KA has done such a credible job in so many areas of this team, but for reasons unknown he and his staff can’t make good decisions regarding the goaltending.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

Everything bad that has happened with the goaltending over the last few years was foreseeable and was foreseen by the people on this board.

Many here wanted Ullmark extended for multiple years when KA first arrived. KA extended him for a year. We also wanted Hutton gone as well. KA did neither. 

Prior to expansion, I suggested that KA use his cap and picks depth to get a goalie for the expansion slot in case Ullmark walked.  He didn’t, saying he wanted Ullmark in that slot to give him more negotiating time with Ullmark.  How did that work out?

When Ullmark walked we all asked if KA had a contingency in case he walked.  We asked this because we all thought Ullmark would walk to play for a winning program.  Ullmark walked and KA didn’t have a plan B.  Instead he signed Anderson from retirement and Dell on the cheap.  Anderson did fine in the limited games he played but we ended up getting subpar goaltending from the other 5 goalies we tried.  

His next step was to bring in a goalie, Comrie, again on the cheap, who had 28 games of NHL experience, but was an analytics darling from a D first system to pair him with the solid but limited Anderson.  How did that work out? Injuries, UPL and 304 goals allowed.  The Sabres missed the playoffs by a point because of the bad goaltending.

Now with a playoff caliber forward group, and a deeper D group, KA brings back the terrible UPL, the injury prone mediocre Comrie and the rookie Levi.  He tells us he is confident in this group.  I wonder where that confidence is now? 

All these moves show an unwillingness to properly invest is the most critical position on the ice.  Ultimately this poor judgement has already cost the Sabres one playoff birth and maybe another this season.  

 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How? Who is trading us a good goalie? The time to do that was the off-season.  

it’s crazy when you think about it.  KA got vets for the defense. He got a vet forward to add to the ones he already had.  However, for reasons known only to him, with Millions in cap space and a pipeline overflowing with forwards, he wouldn’t even entertain the notion of getting a proven netminder to protect our season.  

I agree, there's nobody around to trade for at the moment. Unless you want to grossly overpay and make someone an offer they can't refuse. Which won't happen. It'll be the return of Tokarski. We all know it. 

It's been 3 years of this already, why would it change now? (I say three, because as soon as Ullmark entered the last year of his deal KA should have known or at least considered the possibility and there were goalies to be had at expansion). 

[Kristian]

The goalie situation was entirely avoidable, it’s simply terrible team management.

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Everything bad that has happened with the goaltending over the last few years was foreseeable and was foreseen by the people on this board.

Many here wanted Ullmark extended for multiple years when KA first arrived. KA extended him for a year. We also wanted Hutton gone as well. KA did neither. 

Prior to expansion, I suggested that KA use his cap and picks depth to get a goalie for the expansion slot in case Ullmark walked.  He didn’t, saying he wanted Ullmark in that slot to give him more negotiating time with Ullmark.  How did that work out?

When Ullmark walked we all asked if KA had a contingency in case he walked.  We asked this because we all thought Ullmark would walk to play for a winning program.  Ullmark walked and KA didn’t have a plan B.  Instead he signed Anderson from retirement and Dell on the cheap.  Anderson did fine in the limited games he played but we ended up getting subpar goaltending from the other 5 goalies we tried.  

His next step was to bring in a goalie, Comrie, again on the cheap, who had 28 games of NHL experience, but was an analytics darling from a D first system to pair him with the solid but limited Anderson.  How did that work out? Injuries, UPL and 304 goals allowed.  The Sabres missed the playoffs by a point because of the bad goaltending.

Now with a playoff caliber forward group, and a deeper D group, KA brings back the terrible UPL, the injury prone mediocre Comrie and the rookie Levi.  He tells us he is confident in this group.  I wonder where that confidence is now? 

All these moves show an unwillingness to properly invest is the most critical position on the ice.  Ultimately this poor judgement has already cost the Sabres one playoff birth and maybe another this season.  

 

I have no idea how someone associated with Carolina didn't see they had a decade's worth of teams that every advanced metric said should've made the playoffs easily but kept failing to do so because their goaltending stunk.

[Sidc3000]

7 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

UPL is not a viable NHL goalie. He has not shown to be a viable AHL goalie.

Comrie is injury prone.

Levi an unproven rookie.

There's no one on the farm.

If KA doesn't at least attempt to make the Sabres look like they're trying to be a legitimate team, it's is going to hurt us when trying to convince the next round of FA's to sign here under fair terms. 

Nope. He will ride or die with UPL and bring up someone from ROC if Levi isn’t ready.  
 

who would trade a legit NHL ready goalie to the Sabres? 

[Night Train]

With the new contracts and extensions elsewhere, were any quality Goalies truely available this off-season ?  Outside of Helly, who extended eventually, the names mentioned were meh..

Maybe the available market was actually bad ? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Night Train said:

With the new contracts and extensions elsewhere, were any quality Goalies truely available this off-season ?  Outside of Helly, who extended eventually, the names mentioned were meh..

Maybe the available market was actually bad ? 

For the last 3 years?

[sabresouth]

Sadly, No. KA has had years to fix this problem and has done nothing 

[Quint]

KA needs his feet to be held to the fire to address the goalie situation. He's incredibly stubborn with his vision to do nothing but stick with his three-headed goaltending situation. 

 

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How? Who is trading us a good goalie? The time to do that was the off-season.  

it’s crazy when you think about it.  KA got vets for the defense. He got a vet forward to add to the ones he already had.  However, for reasons known only to him, with Millions in cap space and a pipeline overflowing with forwards, he wouldn’t even entertain the notion of getting a proven netminder to protect our season.  

Can’t have a “blocker” for his prospects , remember?   We have to wait for Levi. 

He probably is not allowed to spend cap money-  see Terry’s  “efficient, effective, economic model” for hockey GMs. 

Tokarski is in Rochester. 
 

[Zamboni]

The false narrative that KA didn’t even try to upgrade the goalie situation this past summer is funny. It take two (sometimes three) GM’s to agree to a deal. 
 

Fact is, he didn’t upgrade that position. But not for a lack of trying. Full stop. 

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Can’t have a “blocker” for his prospects , remember?   We have to wait for Levi. 

He probably is not allowed to spend cap money-  see Terry’s  “efficient, effective, economic model” for hockey GMs. 

Tokarski is in Rochester. 
 

He just spent 20 mill on 2 defenders

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

The false narrative that KA didn’t even try to upgrade the goalie situation this past summer is funny. It take two (sometimes three) GM’s to agree to a deal. 
 

Fact is, he didn’t upgrade that position. But not for a lack of trying. Full stop. 

So you are giving him a participation trophy for trying but failing to upgrade the goalie position for 3 years? 

Sometimes trying isn’t enough.  This is a success oriented business where success means winning on the ice.  No goaltending = no winning.  His excuses of no market, prices to high, confident in our prospects are all BS at this point.  He needed to step up and move on from both UPL and Comrie and didn’t.  

Now with Levi and Comrie injured our goaltending tandem against Col could be UPL and career AHLer Cooley.  That sure should help the team’s confidence.  

The high price WPG wanted for Helle is looking cheaper by the day.

The funny thing is I bet KA is congratulating himself on his foresight for having goalie depth on his NHL roster.  Notice I didn’t say having 3 NHL goalies on his roster. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Skooby]

We need more offense so we can score 5 goals & still lose.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

He just spent 20 mill on 2 defenders

Off season acquisitions to help last years team:  

    E Johnson - 1 yr at $3.25M;  note 1 year will not block R Johnson  

    Clifton - 3 years at $10M = $3.33M per year 

    cap hit = $ 6.55M this year.  Specifically spent to upgrade this season over the last. 
 

You are referring to Dahlin and Power, they were already on the team, already factor into his cap usage plan, he already had them on contract and he chose to not bridge Power - one of his draft picks and designated core.  

  Dahlin - 8 yrs at $88M = $11M yr (next year)

  Power - 7 yrs at $50.45M = $8.35M ( next year) 

  Cap hit $19.35M (next year).  This was allocated in his long term plan to pay the core, and it is not money designated to improve our team this year. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[LTS]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you are giving him a participation trophy for trying but failing to upgrade the goalie position for 3 years? 

Sometimes trying isn’t enough.  This is a success oriented business where success means winning on the ice.  No goaltending = no winning.  His excuses of no market, prices to high, confident in our prospects are all BS at this point.  He needed to step up and move on from both UPL and Comrie and didn’t.  

Now with Levi and Comrie injured our goaltending tandem against Col could be UPL and career AHLer Cooley.  That sure should help the team’s confidence.  

The high price WPG wanted for Helle is looking cheaper by the day.

The funny thing is I bet KA is congratulating himself on his foresight for having goalie depth on his NHL roster.  Notice I didn’t say having 3 NHL goalies on his roster. 

Wwhat do you do more than trying? Are you once again advocating that Adams should have gone full stupid and made a deal so lopsided against the Sabres that it would hurt the team overall?  What is "more than trying"?  That high price for Hellebuyck would look really bad if Hellebuyck was injured.

Let's say he manages to fleece GMs and makes the most sweetheart deals in the world for the Sabres and brought in ANY two goaltenders that would actually make YOU happy.  Then both of them get injured.  Would you still be making this post?

Of course you would, because you are actually blasting a GM for not having THREE goalies on the roster that are "NHL" level.

Which teams have that luxury?

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 minutes ago, LTS said:

Wwhat do you do more than trying? Are you once again advocating that Adams should have gone full stupid and made a deal so lopsided against the Sabres that it would hurt the team overall?  What is "more than trying"?  That high price for Hellebuyck would look really bad if Hellebuyck was injured.

Let's say he manages to fleece GMs and makes the most sweetheart deals in the world for the Sabres and brought in ANY two goaltenders that would actually make YOU happy.  Then both of them get injured.  Would you still be making this post?

Of course you would, because you are actually blasting a GM for not having THREE goalies on the roster that are "NHL" level.

Which teams have that luxury?

Actually I wouldn’t write such a post.  I’d have praised KA for taking the risk and attempting to properly fill an obvious hole, just as I praised him for adding Greenway, Clifton and Johnson.  Injuries happen.  I also praised him for bringing back Tokarski as goalie depth in case of injury as I think Tokarski is actually better than Comrie and UPL. 

I’ve learned a lot from watching Anpodolis GM the Braves. He seems to have found the balance between developing prospects, signing his young studs long term, trading prospects for vets to fill holes and signing the right FAs.  He is also willing to move from vets like Swanson and Freeman when their prices got too high.  

As I’ve said before KA has done so much right making the failures in goal even more glaring.  

I’ll put this another way.  Let’s say KA caved and traded Rosen and Savoie for one season of Hellebuyck.  A huge price I know, but how much damage would that have really done to our forward pipeline with Benson, Östlund, Kulich and Wahlberg plus many others still there? We’d still have one of the deepest pools in hockey.  How much better would the Sabres be right now?

Edited October 28, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

Goalies are not easy to get. Tampa is using one of our cast offs now. There is no magic goalie tree to go pick a fresh new goalie

[Night Train]

Hellebuyck got his $$ . So the GM never wanted to trade him.

The other internet GM suggestions like Hart or Gibson (sucks) were dreamworld scenerio's that were never going to happen.

Not defending KA at all... but the shelves at Wal-Mart were not stocked with actual imaginary help. UPL should have been sent away this summer for a bag of pucks. The Amerk goalies are just as good if not better and that says very little. 

What is Levi's current status anyhow ?