Idle SabreSpacer speculation re: Patrick Kane

[Flashsabre]

When ROR and Accarri came to the Leafs they asked where they were going for the team dinner and were told “We don’t do that stuff here” It is a different Culture with the Leafs.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Unfortunately KA, Granato and Pegula are all in agreement on this one 

This is the most interesting post I've read here in a long time.

I've posted on here before that it was hard not to notice that the Sabres building process this summer left a very Patrick Kane-sized hole on both the salary cap and the roster. A battle-tested middle-six winger who can unlock their desired 3-line attack and "knows how to win" is exactly what the doctor ordered even before the power play went AWOL.

The question was always about how closely the 2023/24 version of Patrick Kane matched any of the many narratives around him.

• Is Kane a selfish me-first player, or can he slide comfortably into a middle-six role on the ice?
• How will his undeniable presence work in the room and affect the vibes?
• Is he still a viable 2nd-line NHL player?
• Were his pedestrian numbers last year a product of his hip and his situation or a sign of serious decline?
• Has he fully recovered from his surgery?
• At this portion of his career, how focused is he on winning hockey games?
• How badly does he want to be in Buffalo and why?

I haven't weighed in on this one much because I don't have the answers to any of the above. There are so many variables and so many ways this could go.

But, as @nfreeman said, Kevyn is not an idiot. Both he and Donnie have pre-existing relationships with Kane. I have been expecting him and his team to be working hard behind the scenes to formulate their own answers.

Apparently, we have their conclusions. Their interest is real.

We'll see if it's mutual

Edited November 10, 2023 by dudacek

[Mango]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  does anyone really think the Sabres would sign Kane, especially to a multi-year deal, if he didn't pass a physical with flying colors?

It's fair not to want to give the Sabres the benefit of the doubt, but still.  It would be such an ill-considered, incompetent bozo move.  This isn't the way KA operates.

I mostly say no, but he’s a Buffalo kid, we aren’t filing the arena, and I don’t trust Terry. 

[mjd1001]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

But, as @nfreeman said, Kevyn is not an idiot. Both he and Donnie have pre-existing relationships with Kane.

I don't want Kane. I don't like Kane. I think he is a one dimensional player. I think he is in Decline. Any icetime he gets here I would rather see given to the young guys.  I'm fearful any money given to him could be better spent on resigning some of the young guys in the next couple years.  There is no world that I want him at all anywhere near this team....BUT....overall I do like what Kevyn Adams has done and I have no problem admitting he has much more info on Kane and his injury status and how he would fit in on this team.

If Buffalo signs him I will not be happy, but I will think/hope it will work out in some way other than a P.R. move.

[FrenchConnection44]

Why would they sign Kane without first testing him out to see if he can actually play? (Not saying they wouldn’t, just saying it makes zero sense).
 

If he can’t go full speed (and I think he’s washed up and needs to retire; plus no one really seems to come back from his situation), the signing would be ridiculous. No telling how many times a fledgling franchise tries to do this and it doesn’t work. 

He certainly is not going to solve the particular issues they have. Smh. 🤦‍♂️

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, French Collection said:

Backstrom  passed his physical, just couldn’t perform at his previous level.

OK, but what I meant by "pass with flying colors" was that they would work him out on the ice pretty rigorously, to the point where they were very comfortable that he has his legs all the way back.

I just find it impossible to believe that they would do a cursory physical exam and then hope for the best.

 

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Unfortunately KA, Granato and Pegula are all in agreement on this one 

I don't doubt it, but again, I gotta believe that their agreement on this is conditioned upon being very comfortable with Kane's physical abilities.

 

Separately -- let's say, just for poops and giggles, that Kane is all the way back.  The season before last, he had 92 pts in 78 games -- for a 68-pt Blackhawks team.  And his fancystats were good too -- 54.5% XG% and 56% FF%.  Who here doesn't want that guy on the Sabres PP, which is really freaking bad right now?  Or getting 5-on-5 minutes over, say, Krebs, VO, KO, Zemgus, etc.?

It all depends on his physical condition.

[Brawndo]

34 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

I just find it impossible to believe that they would do a cursory physical exam and then hope for the best.

 

I don't doubt it, but again, I gotta believe that their agreement on this is conditioned upon being very comfortable with Kane's physical abilities. 

I’m pretty confident a contract offer has already been made.

 

 

[nfreeman]

10 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I’m pretty confident a contract offer has already been made.

 

Interesting.  Do you think they've worked him out or otherwise given him a physical exam?  Or maybe the offer is contingent on working him out?

[Sabres Super Fan]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:26 AM, MattPie said:

I don't think Kane is the player he once was, and the Sabres aren't short on promising forwards. However, if he's a more mature person than he's shown in the past... An SC winner that loves Buffalo wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have around the locker room.

It doesn’t matter if Patrick Kane is the same player or not he has multiple Stanley Cup rings. The Buffalo Sabres have young nobodies fool players right now that haven’t even made the NHL playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Rasmus Dahlin is this or that in the future and makes $11 million dollars a year he has won nothing in the NHL right now. Do Buffalo Sabres fans understand that? Tim Horton was old 41 years old when Punch Imlach offered him a expensive sports car on top of his salary to keep playing in the NHL instead of retiring running his Donuts shop in Hamilton and Tim Horton wasn’t what he once was. But he taught the young Buffalo Sabres at the time to be men and accountability on the ice every night. My goodness Tim Horton at 41 years old would clean most of these current young players clock.

Tim Horton lost a step at 41 years old but he was the best angles defenseman I ever saw on film and he was as strong as a bull it looked like the forward would get around him and Horton would angle you towards the outside and wham into the boards at the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull was also like that a very heavy players to play against none of these fool Sabres could play with those three back in the day there not smart enough hockey smarts wise or tough enough. When you play at a high level in your 40’s that is greatness think Tom Brady if you are young and never saw Horton, Howe or Hull play they were in that level at a old age they were great. These fool Sabres players are in there 20’s and they are exhausted unable to consistently play three periods for more than a week god help and save us the Sabres that someday these fools will get hockey smarts. Too many Sabres fans are in a video game fantasy world analytics world over valuing the Sabres players with their young label. Well eventually they became old prospects fast turning to NHL busts just remember that when one uses the the Sabres are young card to explain away forever losing for years. 

The Buffalo Sabres need veteran leadership, hockey smarts with actual Stanley Cup rings that can stand up and say I have been there this is what it takes. My goodness other than Sabres GM Kevyn Adams who has a Stanley Cup ring with the Carolina Hurricanes we have nothing. Sabres coach Don Granato is a minor league coach that never won a Stanley Cup. The Sabres need to do whatever it takes to get Patrick Kane signed.

Plus signing Patrick Kane says that the Buffalo Sabres are serious about winning to future NHL free agents. The Sabres are a nobody franchise right now in the eyes of the rest of the NHL players. I am a huge Buffalo Sabres fan that lives in reality the Sabres are a nobody franchise right now but the Sabres organization can change that get Patrick Kane signed in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Sabres Super Fan

[LGR4GM]

25 minutes ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

It doesn’t matter if Patrick Kane is the same player or not he has multiple Stanley Cup rings. The Buffalo Sabres have young nobodies fool players right now that haven’t even made the NHL playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Rasmus Dahlin is this or that in the future and makes $11 million dollars a year he has won nothing in the NHL right now. Do Buffalo Sabres fans understand that? Tim Horton was old 41 years old when Punch Imlach offered him a expensive sports car on top of his salary to keep playing in the NHL instead of retiring running his Donuts shop in Hamilton and Tim Horton wasn’t what he once was. But he taught the young Buffalo Sabres at the time to be men and accountability on the ice every night. My goodness Tim Horton at 41 years old would clean most of these current young players clock.

Tim Horton lost a step at 41 years old but he was the best angles defenseman I ever saw on film and he was as strong as a bull it looked like the forward would get around him and Horton would angle you towards the outside and wham into the boards at the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull was also like that a very heavy players to play against none of these fool Sabres could play with those three back in the day there not smart enough hockey smarts wise or tough enough. When you play at a high level in your 40’s that is greatness think Tom Brady if you are young and never saw Horton, Howe or Hull play they were in that level at a old age they were great. These fool Sabres players are in there 20’s and they are exhausted unable to consistently play three periods for more than a week god help and save us the Sabres that someday these fools will get hockey smarts. Too many Sabres fans are in a video game fantasy world analytics world over valuing the Sabres players with their young label. Well eventually they became old prospects fast turning to NHL busts just remember that when one uses the the Sabres are young card to explain away forever losing for years. 

The Buffalo Sabres need veteran leadership, hockey smarts with actual Stanley Cup rings that can stand up and say I have been there this is what it takes. My goodness other than Sabres GM Kevyn Adams who has a Stanley Cup ring with the Carolina Hurricanes we have nothing. Sabres coach Don Granato is a minor league coach that never won a Stanley Cup. The Sabres need to do whatever it takes to get Patrick Kane signed.

Plus signing Patrick Kane says that the Buffalo Sabres are serious about winning to future NHL free agents. The Sabres are a nobody franchise right now in the eyes of the rest of the NHL players. I am a huge Buffalo Sabres fan that lives in reality the Sabres are a nobody franchise right now but the Sabres organization can change that get Patrick Kane signed in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

There's a lot of things in here I could unpack but I will only touch the bolded. Erik Johnson won a Stanley Cup with the Colorado Avalanche. 

Second sentence is the same trash PA and others have thrown out repeatedly. Granato has won at every level he ever coached at. The list of coaches who win cups on 2 different teams is exceedingly small so if that is your criteria for a coach, you are going to be SOL.

 

[French Collection]

34 minutes ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

It doesn’t matter if Patrick Kane is the same player or not he has multiple Stanley Cup rings. The Buffalo Sabres have young nobodies fool players right now that haven’t even made the NHL playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Rasmus Dahlin is this or that in the future and makes $11 million dollars a year he has won nothing in the NHL right now. Do Buffalo Sabres fans understand that? Tim Horton was old 41 years old when Punch Imlach offered him a expensive sports car on top of his salary to keep playing in the NHL instead of retiring running his Donuts shop in Hamilton and Tim Horton wasn’t what he once was. But he taught the young Buffalo Sabres at the time to be men and accountability on the ice every night. My goodness Tim Horton at 41 years old would clean most of these current young players clock.

Tim Horton lost a step at 41 years old but he was the best angles defenseman I ever saw on film and he was as strong as a bull it looked like the forward would get around him and Horton would angle you towards the outside and wham into the boards at the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull was also like that a very heavy players to play against none of these fool Sabres could play with those three back in the day there not smart enough hockey smarts wise or tough enough. When you play at a high level in your 40’s that is greatness think Tom Brady if you are young and never saw Horton, Howe or Hull play they were in that level at a old age they were great. These fool Sabres players are in there 20’s and they are exhausted unable to consistently play three periods for more than a week god help and save us the Sabres that someday these fools will get hockey smarts. Too many Sabres fans are in a video game fantasy world analytics world over valuing the Sabres players with their young label. Well eventually they became old prospects fast turning to NHL busts just remember that when one uses the the Sabres are young card to explain away forever losing for years. 

The Buffalo Sabres need veteran leadership, hockey smarts with actual Stanley Cup rings that can stand up and say I have been there this is what it takes. My goodness other than Sabres GM Kevyn Adams who has a Stanley Cup ring with the Carolina Hurricanes we have nothing. Sabres coach Don Granato is a minor league coach that never won a Stanley Cup. The Sabres need to do whatever it takes to get Patrick Kane signed.

Plus signing Patrick Kane says that the Buffalo Sabres are serious about winning to future NHL free agents. The Sabres are a nobody franchise right now in the eyes of the rest of the NHL players. I am a huge Buffalo Sabres fan that lives in reality the Sabres are a nobody franchise right now but the Sabres organization can change that get Patrick Kane signed in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

All of this typing will be wasted if he retires after 10 games because of his hip?

[Zamboni]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't want Kane. I don't like Kane. I think he is a one dimensional player. I think he is in Decline. Any icetime he gets here I would rather see given to the young guys.  I'm fearful any money given to him could be better spent on resigning some of the young guys in the next couple years.  There is no world that I want him at all anywhere near this team....BUT....overall I do like what Kevyn Adams has done and I have no problem admitting he has much more info on Kane and his injury status and how he would fit in on this team.

If Buffalo signs him I will not be happy, but I will think/hope it will work out in some way other than a P.R. move.

I feel the same exact way. You said it perfectly!

 

I felt the same way about Eric Staal. And I was very glad he was only on the team for a year.

[DarthEbriate]

When Savoie's trial games are up, you either keep him or send him back to Juniors/WJC (and do the same with Benson) and then sign Kane (or sign Kane in the interim and get him an AHL conditioning stint, if permitted). Then, Quinn returns and Kane takes over VO's role as 3W/PP specialist. Go with 3 scoring lines and have the ZG-TJ/PK-KO take D-zone starts. Kane would, theoretically, push Skinner down to PP2 until Quinn returns... or turn PP2 into a threat, and that could be pretty fun.

Signing Kane is not crazy, but Kane also doesn't bring the on-ice needs of the team and its construction in the bottom 6 for the playoffs: a 2-way playoff veteran who is either a) a speedy forechecker to cause chaos, b) a bit of muscle for when people hack Levi and will hack their goalie in response, or c) a faceoff specialist. 

And I definitely don't sign him to any term coming off the hip injury (2 years including this one, max). Younger players are coming to take his ice-time and soon. Then, if he's good and wishes to help bring a Cup home, he can do the 1-year extensions and be the new KO.

All that said, I let him do his hip recovery half-season somewhere else. No blockers, right?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

There's a lot of things in here I could unpack but I will only touch the bolded. Erik Johnson won a Stanley Cup with the Colorado Avalanche. 

Second sentence is the same trash PA and others have thrown out repeatedly. Granato has won at every level he ever coached at. The list of coaches who win cups on 2 different teams is exceedingly small so if that is your criteria for a coach, you are going to be SOL.

 

Indeed.  There is just one name on that list.  He has won it coaching 3 different teams actually.  Lost while coaching at least one other too.

[Flashsabre]

Kane would help the PP for sure.

Those basing his ability on last year are a bit off as he battled through the hip all season.

Do I like him better than VO. Absolutely. But signing Kane means VO and his salary have to be out the door. 

The biggest problem I have is the injury and the way others have not bounced back from it. If you could guarantee he was at his level 2-3 years ago then sign me up. But I have doubts that he can get there out of the gate.

I will neither jump for joy or have an epic message board meltdown if the Sabres sign him. Just see how it goes.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Flashsabre

[Buffalonill]

Here's hoping one of the rookies kill it so I never have to see Patrick Kane in a sabres Uniform.

[tom webster]

On 11/10/2023 at 4:51 PM, Buffalonill said:

Here's hoping one of the rookies kill it so I never have to see Patrick Kane in a sabres Uniform.

Sorry.

[Two or less]

cryptic post possibly about Kane 

[PASabreFan]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:56 PM, LGR4GM said:

There's a lot of things in here I could unpack but I will only touch the bolded. Erik Johnson won a Stanley Cup with the Colorado Avalanche. 

Second sentence is the same trash PA and others have thrown out repeatedly. Granato has won at every level he ever coached at. The list of coaches who win cups on 2 different teams is exceedingly small so if that is your criteria for a coach, you are going to be SOL.

 

How are the Meatballs working out for you? You really haven't figured out that I'm right about this stuff?

He and his assistants are trash coaches unless all you want is an extended preseason for the next five years.

Letting those three figure out the lines last night with 11 forwards was like letting a Piper Cub pilot into the Concorde cockpit.

[tom webster]

47 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

How are the Meatballs working out for you? You really haven't figured out that I'm right about this stuff?

He and his assistants are trash coaches unless all you want is an extended preseason for the next five years.

Letting those three figure out the lines last night with 11 forwards was like letting a Piper Cub pilot into the Concorde cockpit.

These takes are hysterical. It’s like no one pays attention to what’s going on around the league. There are like three teams with records significantly above .500 and 3 sucking pond scum. Everyone else is treading water as they figure things out.

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by tom webster

[Curt]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:40 PM, nfreeman said:

Separately -- let's say, just for poops and giggles, that Kane is all the way back.  The season before last, he had 92 pts in 78 games -- for a 68-pt Blackhawks team.  And his fancystats were good too -- 54.5% XG% and 56% FF%.  Who here doesn't want that guy on the Sabres PP, which is really freaking bad right now?  Or getting 5-on-5 minutes over, say, Krebs, VO, KO, Zemgus, etc.?

It all depends on his physical condition.

When you site possession stats like FF%, you really should use the 5-on-5 numbers as opposed to the all situations numbers that you sited.  The inclusion of a bunch of PP time (or PK time in the case of different players) skews the numbers a lot.

Kane’s possession numbers were still pretty good that season, around 50%, which was about 6% better than the team’s average.

[tom webster]

Things I know for certain;

1) the Sabres have made the best financial offer(two years).

2) Last time I talked to anyone, he still “waxed poetic” about playing here

3) the Sabres have done their “due diligence” and believe he has matured and could handle playing here

4) he will not sign here without assurances the team is “all in.”

I am not a big fan of this move but my feelings may be colored by my dislike for the family. It is point number four that I feel is the best part about the whole scenario.

The flip side, of course, is if he goes elsewhere he believes they aren’t ready for contender status.

The situation is still fluid but I won’t be surprised if it all comes to a head tomorrow.

[dudacek]

So Savoie and Krebs for a significant player (that package screams Calgary) and Kane signs.

Let the mad speculation commence! 😁

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

When you site possession stats like FF%, you really should use the 5-on-5 numbers as opposed to the all situations numbers that you sited.  The inclusion of a bunch of PP time (or PK time in the case of different players) skews the numbers a lot.

Kane’s possession numbers were still pretty good that season, around 50%, which was about 6% better than the team’s average.

Fair point.  (Not intentional by me -- I think the moneypuck page I saw didn't specify 5 v 5 as opposed to all situations).

[DarthEbriate]

56 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Let the mad speculation commence! 😁

This is where the fun begins.

(Again, I'm on record that I wouldn't add Kane for this season, because if the recovery isn't full, then he's a slow non-defensive forward who has to be in the lineup because he's a star player/veteran. Adding Kane means we're still a perimeter team, without a lot of "grit", and still loses a vast majority of faceoffs which crushes possession on PP/PK.)