Idle SabreSpacer speculation re: Patrick Kane

[French Collection]

57 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

If  the only thing Kane does is improve the PP then it is an improvement over VO this season.

This is one area where he can help, on the ice and off of it.

He has tons of experience with PP, what works and what doesn’t. He can be a PP guru just like EJ has helped the PK. He has probably been watching closely the Sabres and the rest of the league and has some ideas.

[PASabreFan]

22 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Why do you think it's one mistake? It could be, or it could be a whole string of mistakes that only one was reported.

I honestly don't get this.

[Weave]

44 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

 

Here is the thing - every player - I mean literally - every player who had this surgery...never gets over the discomfort, and they retire. Every single one. Why would Kane be different?

Where would someone find a comprehensive list of NHLers that have had the same surgery Kane underwent?  Serious question.  I’ve seen posts indicating that 3 or 4 recent players that underwent the same procedure retired shortly after.  How many players are we talking?  And how many were in serious decline not related to the surgery?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Weave

[sabremike]

28 minutes ago, Weave said:

Where would someone find a comprehensive list of NHLers that have had the same surgery Kane underwent?  Serious question.  I’ve seen posts indicating that 3 or 4 recent players that underwent the same procedure retired shortly after.  How many players are we talking?  And how many were in serious decline not related to the surgery?

Also is it possible that the quality/success rate of the procedure has been improved through medical advancements since the people who keep getting mentioned had it done?

[oddoublee]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Does one mistake make him a moron?

no. just going to an extreme to make a point that i could care less. 

[oddoublee]

55 minutes ago, Weave said:

Where would someone find a comprehensive list of NHLers that have had the same surgery Kane underwent?  Serious question.  I’ve seen posts indicating that 3 or 4 recent players that underwent the same procedure retired shortly after.  How many players are we talking?  And how many were in serious decline not related to the surgery?

ed jovanovski (granted, 10 years ago...)

nicklas backstrom

carl hagelin

ryan kesler

 

not a long list - but that could also be a point - it may not be an ideal surgery to have if you play sports. 

 

[Weave]

Just now, oddoublee said:

ed jovanovski (granted, 10 years ago...)

nicklas backstrom

carl hagelin

ryan kesler

 

not a long list - but that could also be a point - it may not be an ideal surgery to have if you play sports. 

 

Again, what is the source for the full list of NHLers that have had this procedure done?

[Curt]

1 hour ago, oddoublee said:

ed jovanovski (granted, 10 years ago...)

nicklas backstrom

carl hagelin

ryan kesler

 

not a long list - but that could also be a point - it may not be an ideal surgery to have if you play sports. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Again, what is the source for the full list of NHLers that have had this procedure done?

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/35377168/how-nicklas-backstrom-accelerating-return-ice-hip-surgery
 

According to this ESPN piece by Emily Kaplan from earlier this year, only Jovanovski and Kesler had this procedure done previous to Backstrom.  The outcomes have been quite poor.  Seems like an absolute last ditch effort.

I actually didn’t quite realize how serious this was.  It’s in essence a hip replacement.  A newer technique for it, but still the hip joint is now a metal ball in a metal socket.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Curt

[Buffalonill]

Is kane ready to play? 

[Weave]

18 minutes ago, Curt said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/35377168/how-nicklas-backstrom-accelerating-return-ice-hip-surgery
 

According to this ESPN piece by Emily Kaplan from earlier this year, only Jovanovski and Kesler had this procedure done previous to Backstrom.  The outcomes have been quite poor.  Seems like an absolute last ditch effort.

I actually didn’t quite realize how serious this was.  It’s in essence a hip replacement.  A newer technique for it, but still the hip joint is now a metal ball in a metal socket.

Thank you.

Wonder if a PTO is a condition of the contract?

[Sabres Super Fan]

When Patrick Kane is ready to play hopefully he signs with the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres need talent and to overcome the stigma after Jack Eichel left and won a Stanley Cup. It didn’t make the Buffalo Sabres ownership come off great to free agents around the NHL as example Matt Murray refused to come to the Buffalo Sabres. Signing Patrick Kane would be a step in the right direction for NHL free agents to look at the Sabres organization again under Kevyn Adams direction in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

When Patrick Kane is ready to play hopefully he signs with the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres need talent and to overcome the stigma after Jack Eichel left and won a Stanley Cup. It didn’t make the Buffalo Sabres ownership come off great to free agents around the NHL as example Matt Murray refused to come to the Buffalo Sabres. Signing Patrick Kane would be a step in the right direction for NHL free agents to look at the Sabres organization again under Kevyn Adams direction in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

You know what will make the Sabres attractive to FA's and veterans w/ NMC's?  Icing a competitive team that does some damage in the playoffs.

Tuch and Kane (should he sign) being ecstatic about coming home isn't going to move the needle much.

Kane getting the PP into relevance MIGHT help move that needle.  (Say might, because there are structural issues with the PP that a single additional good PP player won't necessarily fix.  And if he can't come back from the hip injury he definitely won't help there.)

[French Collection]

46 minutes ago, Weave said:

Thank you.

Wonder if a PTO is a condition of the contract?

TP might think he can sell enough jerseys, tickets and stuff with him on the roster to make up the $$.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

When Patrick Kane is ready to play hopefully he signs with the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres need talent and to overcome the stigma after Jack Eichel left and won a Stanley Cup. It didn’t make the Buffalo Sabres ownership come off great to free agents around the NHL as example Matt Murray refused to come to the Buffalo Sabres. Signing Patrick Kane would be a step in the right direction for NHL free agents to look at the Sabres organization again under Kevyn Adams direction in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Lol Matt Murray. 😆  who gives a damn what he thinks and he wasn't even a UFA.

[Thorny]

On 11/12/2023 at 8:37 AM, tom webster said:

Things I know for certain;

1) the Sabres have made the best financial offer(two years).

2) Last time I talked to anyone, he still “waxed poetic” about playing here

3) the Sabres have done their “due diligence” and believe he has matured and could handle playing here

4) he will not sign here without assurances the team is “all in.”

I am not a big fan of this move but my feelings may be colored by my dislike for the family. It is point number four that I feel is the best part about the whole scenario.

The flip side, of course, is if he goes elsewhere he believes they aren’t ready for contender status.

The situation is still fluid but I won’t be surprised if it all comes to a head tomorrow.

4th reason is definitely the biggest, any other concerns are secondary and subservient and benefits to not signing him don’t matter if number 4 isn’t true anyways 

for that reason I really hope we sign P. Kane

[Thorny]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:35 AM, Randall Flagg said:

Reasonable concerns. If I see this sign of life from Kevyn though, I'm not in a position to be super picky right now. A GM who cares about this season is a GM whose moves I can support. 

This is where I am. We might be damned if we do, but we are very probably damned if we don’t, because of how it reflects on the man in charge. I’ll take the signs of life. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Thorny

[#freejame]

I am fully on board with signing Kane. I think he’ll play well and will be a huge benefit to our young players. He’s arguably the greatest American born player ever. There’s a ton that can be soaked up from him being in the locker room. I also think he’s almost certainly going to be one of our top 12 forwards from the date he signs. I have no reason to believe any of this other than I want to. 

[Thorny]

19 hours ago, Hank said:

I've never been high on Savoie either, it baffles me whenever I see someone say he's a better prospect than Kulich. 

In seriousness, are we thinking this is something the organization has already changed its mind on? Presumably they believed Savoie was the better prospect considering they selected him much higher, in the same draft 

[Broken Ankles]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Holy ***** life comes at you fast lol

…If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

[...]

9 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I am fully on board with signing Kane. I think he’ll play well and will be a huge benefit to our young players. He’s arguably the greatest American born player ever. There’s a ton that can be soaked up from him being in the locker room. I also think he’s almost certainly going to be one of our top 12 forwards from the date he signs. I have no reason to believe any of this other than I want to. 

I was not on board with signing P. Kane and still would not be if it weren't for the obvious fact that our forwards forgot the stick doesn't work when placed up their butts. If the coaches can't figure out how to get the PP solid, then perhaps talent can.

I would be alright for 2 years but the guy better not be a princess that affects the team - unless it leads to a coaching staff turnover.

[Doohickie]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

In seriousness, are we thinking this is something the organization has already changed its mind on? Presumably they believed Savoie was the better prospect considering they selected him much higher, in the same draft 

I think it's way too early to pass judgment on either prospect.  Kulich has the benefit of playing in Rochester which is getting ready for Buffalo Savoie missed camp due to injury and the only reason he remained with the big club was to try to replace that lost time with NHL practices and a 3:55 cuppa coffee in the NHL.  I think Savoie will tear it up in the AHL... eventually but Kulich is doing it now.  That doesn't mean Kulich has the higher ceiling; it means that he's following a different development path.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think it's way too early to pass judgment on either prospect.  Kulich has the benefit of playing in Rochester which is getting ready for Buffalo Savoie missed camp due to injury and the only reason he remained with the big club was to try to replace that lost time with NHL practices and a 3:55 cuppa coffee in the NHL.  I think Savoie will tear it up in the AHL... eventually but Kulich is doing it now.  That doesn't mean Kulich has the higher ceiling; it means that he's following a different development path.

I agree. I’d be pretty surprised if KA and team have switched up on their initial evaluations after seeing such limited output afterwords. We preach endlessly it’s too early to judge guys that have already been suiting up as nhl pros for years - a drastic shift like that (even Östlund was picked before Kulich) would be surprising to me 

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Is Kane better then VO?  Of course he is.  Sign him for 2x4.5M, sell VO for a 5th.  Call it a day.  

 

 

[Thorny]

18 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

This guy Just guessing out of his ass like...

Rasmus Dahlin

 

Have we considered, considering the obvious and documented revamp of the Sabres social media presence since Adams took over, how likely it would be that the team isn’t very well aware of the conversation that’s taking place online, in general? Would seem an absurd suggestion that they weren’t. Have we considered Adams is simply most concerned with frequently ensuring there is smoke, regardless of the conversion to fire?

How important is, “well, we tried” to the narrative this organization is consciously shaping online? Under, again, the established context where we KNOW they care dearly about online narrative and presence?

Chad may just be a victim of the organization’s conscious social media handprint, as much or more than anyone else. I’ve been on this train for a good long while, their social media revamp is relatively un-mined as a discussion point and I think you can see it’s offshoots in a lot of places

Edited November 13, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

When Patrick Kane is ready to play hopefully he signs with the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres need talent and to overcome the stigma after Jack Eichel left and won a Stanley Cup. It didn’t make the Buffalo Sabres ownership come off great to free agents around the NHL as example Matt Murray refused to come to the Buffalo Sabres. Signing Patrick Kane would be a step in the right direction for NHL free agents to look at the Sabres organization again under Kevyn Adams direction in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I think this presents an important conclusion: we either believe Adams or we don’t. If people think he’s doing a good job, they presumably must believe the words that come out of his mouth and the strategy he presents: “We want players who want to be here”. If this is actually true, and not just a blown out narrative of his shaping of the Eichel drama, I fail to see how attracting Patrick Kane, and the connotation inherent to that, wouldn’t do *a lot* on the front of positioning the Sabres, to the league at large, as a destination where actual players want to be 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Thorny