Around the NHL 2023 Summer Edition

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, Marvin said:

It makes me wonder how much of Babcock's coaching prowess was more about Niklas Lidstrom being an all-time great.

Pretty sure he didn't have Lidstrom in Anaheim.

[Marvin]

32 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pretty sure he didn't have Lidstrom in Anaheim.

True.  I stand corrected 

[Brawndo]

https://x.com/LLysowski/status/1701964716933882137?s=20
 

Shane Wright has received an exemption to play in the AHL this year 

[shrader]

31 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://x.com/LLysowski/status/1701964716933882137?s=20
 

Shane Wright has received an exemption to play in the AHL this year 

Has the league/team provided any information on why they gave him that exemption?

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Has the league/team provided any information on why they gave him that exemption?

It's not in the article.  I suspect that the granting of the exemption is up to the junior league and/or junior team and not the NHL, though.

[shrader]

25 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It's not in the article.  I suspect that the granting of the exemption is up to the junior league and/or junior team and not the NHL, though.

And then it comes down to OHL vs. WHL.  It looks like Bedard is the only one who ever got exceptional player status to play young with the WHL.  I'd imagine they don't like messing around with the rules very often.

[PromoTheRobot]

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/38388008/nhl-open-another-expansion-franchise-atlanta

 

11 hours ago, shrader said:

Has the league/team provided any information on why they gave him that exemption?

650 million reasons.

[Norcal]

Babdick already breaking the rules, smh

[Eleven]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/38388008/nhl-open-another-expansion-franchise-atlanta

How much are they going to dilute this league?  Unbelievable.

[Marvin]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

How much are they going to dilute this league?  Unbelievable.

Why not let the league stabilises after the last expansion first?  I never understood that.

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

How much are they going to dilute this league?  Unbelievable.

I used to feel this way, but no longer believe the nhl product is diluted.

 Scoring is up, everyone can skate, there’s no more staged-fighter roster spots, and there are more euros than ever further enhancing the rosters.

The last two expansion teams are getting approx F8 or D4 from teams and making playoff runs. I think there’s a lot of talent out there and another 22-25 nhl players isn’t diluting anything.  
 

Also, in the past I believe I incorrectly blamed talent dilution on 1) defensive coaching systems, and 2) the penalty rule book & officiating. While these problems still remain, everything else I mentioned above is still trending positively and it’s due to talent. 

[Curt]

43 minutes ago, Eleven said:

How much are they going to dilute this league?  Unbelievable.

Of course it’s true that adding teams would dilute the league.  I don’t necessarily think that diluting the league is going to have a terribly negative effect on the product though.  It may even have a positive effect in terms of scoring increasing.

[sabremike]

There is a reason that in just about every place on Earth the top division of any sport is capped at 20 teams/clubs.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

There is a reason that in just about every place on Earth the top division of any sport is capped at 20 teams/clubs.

What is the reason?

[#freejame]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

What is the reason?

They hate money. 4/5 top revenue producing leagues are 30+. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Of course it’s true that adding teams would dilute the league.  I don’t necessarily think that diluting the league is going to have a terribly negative effect on the product though.  It may even have a positive effect in terms of scoring increasing.

If the league were to get much bigger imo it should switch to a relegation model like soccer does in the U.K. 

Say you had 40 teams. Two "leagues" an A league and a B league of 20 teams each. Top 16 make the playoffs, bottom 4 in league A drop into league B next season. Top 4 from league B move up. You also get a playoff in league B so the lower teams have their own post season fun for more league playoff revenue and interest. Only the 4 worst would be totally out of it, and those 4 lottery for the top pick. 

That's what I'd do with it. 

 

[shrader]

59 minutes ago, Curt said:

What is the reason?

And then we have American pro sports, which apparently don't fall under the label of "just about every place on earth".

[Ducky]

5 hours ago, Eleven said:

How much are they going to dilute this league?  Unbelievable.

We've got a good number at 32 teams with 4 divisions.

Why not move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

Probably makes to mush sense/Bettman still won't admit he was wrong about Phoenix.

[Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, Ducky said:

We've got a good number at 32 teams with 4 divisions.

Why not move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

Probably makes to mush sense/Bettman still won't admit he was wrong about Phoenix.

Well from what I read the youth hockey in Arizona does much better than Atlanta.

But if you want to a city located in the east with easy west coference access, the biggest passenger airport in the world should offer you that.

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, Ducky said:

Why not move the Coyotes to Atlanta?

Or the Jackets or (until last season) the Panthers...

There is no need for 30 teams, much less 32 (as now) or 34. 

This is stupid.

[Curt]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

If the league were to get much bigger imo it should switch to a relegation model like soccer does in the U.K. 

Say you had 40 teams. Two "leagues" an A league and a B league of 20 teams each. Top 16 make the playoffs, bottom 4 in league A drop into league B next season. Top 4 from league B move up. You also get a playoff in league B so the lower teams have their own post season fun for more league playoff revenue and interest. Only the 4 worst would be totally out of it, and those 4 lottery for the top pick. 

That's what I'd do with it. 

 

I’m not against the idea, but it 99.9% won’t happen because I don’t think there is any appetite for it.  No fan of a team wants to see their team relegated, and no owners are going to vote to approve a system that might see their team relegated.

[PerreaultForever]

36 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m not against the idea, but it 99.9% won’t happen because I don’t think there is any appetite for it.  No fan of a team wants to see their team relegated, and no owners are going to vote to approve a system that might see their team relegated.

Well first, it works in Europe for soccer. They have more fans than the NHL has. 

Second, I wouldn't have it completely separate. Top league teams could still play B tier teams, maybe just less games, like we do with east/west games now. Also, you'd only get relegated for that year. You'd be back the next if you place top 4. There would also be that B level playoff money. Think of it this way, if it had been Buffalo, we ended the season strong and could have had a long B level playoff run. Potentially 16 home playoff games and all the revenue that entails. At the end of which you celebrate moving up a league for the year after. 

I realize this is a hard sell in North America, because it's something people aren't familiar with, but it does work, and if you look at European soccer, the level of excitement for moving up is off the charts. 

In any event, as it is, too many more teams will kill rivalries and dilute the league. They'd have to change something. 

[steveoath]

When relegation is an issue (football/soccer) games are more about not losing than they are about winning. Seen it in person. My football club (Greenock Morton) were relegated to the bottom tier in Scotland and although we were the best team most years on our way back up the leagues every opponent played anti football. It was not entertaining. 
 

In leagues Where b teams play, the parent club cannot be in the same division.  So a sabres relegation would mean Rochester relegation also. 
 

with the drafting system in NA I am yet to be convinced that would work in a promotion/relegation system. Teams are responsible for their own farm systems which fall outside of financial fair play rules, so the teams with most money hoover up all the best prospects. 
 

Making games meaningful should be the NHL priority. I am a big fan of the crap teams still having to win for 1OA. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by steveoath

[Curt]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well first, it works in Europe for soccer. They have more fans than the NHL has. 

Second, I wouldn't have it completely separate. Top league teams could still play B tier teams, maybe just less games, like we do with east/west games now. Also, you'd only get relegated for that year. You'd be back the next if you place top 4. There would also be that B level playoff money. Think of it this way, if it had been Buffalo, we ended the season strong and could have had a long B level playoff run. Potentially 16 home playoff games and all the revenue that entails. At the end of which you celebrate moving up a league for the year after. 

I realize this is a hard sell in North America, because it's something people aren't familiar with, but it does work, and if you look at European soccer, the level of excitement for moving up is off the charts. 

In any event, as it is, too many more teams will kill rivalries and dilute the league. They'd have to change something. 

I have absolutely no doubt that a relegation system could work well.

All I’m saying is that I believe there is essentially zero appetite for it from anyone associated with the NHL.  Fans, owners, commissioner, no one is going to push for it.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I have absolutely no doubt that a relegation system could work well.

All I’m saying is that I believe there is essentially zero appetite for it from anyone associated with the NHL.  Fans, owners, commissioner, no one is going to push for it.

I don’t see a relegation system working in North America. It just isn’t part of our culture. 
 

The NHL is going to continue expanding. In my lifetime it has gone from 6-32 teams. There is no reason to think it won’t continue to grow. 
 

As the league has grown though, it has caused me to re-think my approach to championship expectations. Winning a Stanley Cup today is more difficult than at any time in history and it will only become a greater accomplishment as time goes. I have accepted that I will not likely see the Sabres lift that trophy and have chosen to embrace the journey rather than spend my days dreaming about a destination that likely won’t be reached. 
 

What I would like to see in the NHL is a more full-throated celebration of winning the conference championships. In MLB, teams behave like they ended WW2 when they secure a wild card position. I don’t want the NHL to become quite like that, but  I would very much like to see Conference Champs hoist the respective conference trophies over their heads, parade them around the ice, take the huge team picture, have the champagne and celebrate winning these as though they mean something. Winning a conference today is a greater accomplishment than it was to win the Stanley Cup for much of my lifetime. As the league grows in size, it is time for a new approach to celebrating accomplishments on the way to the Cup.